202 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackAdder13]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Star fury wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

Female Cousland ending when she marries Alistair and becomes a queen-consort is one Mary Sue ending.  I struggle to think a happier ending in a videogame, albeit it has one caveat which is only good. 

How is that Mary Sue? The Couslands were popular noblity so they accepted her as a queen.

It looks a lot like an ending for bad fanfics or romantic novels. I prefer an ending where Alistair rejects heartbroken female warden.

You do know that the only reason he has a  rather shakey claim himself is he's Maric's bastard right?Wheras Fem Cousland is a legitimate daugther to a popular noble family.

How is "legitimacy," either popular or by birth, relevant to whether or not a character or ending is a Mary-Sue? (And, for simplicity's sake, let's just ignore the fact that if you lose the Landsmeet you were not accepted by the nobles as "popular nobility," instead you butchered your way against Loghain in the throne room rather than accept defeat). The fact that, in one scenario, the female Cousland may have won the throne in the Landsmeet hardly makes her any less of a Mary Sue in the marry Alistar/become queen quintessential Mary Sue ending (in fact it makes her more of a Mary Sue as she either had the know-how or popularity to win the Landsmeet). 

Often abbreviated to "Sue". A Mary Sue character is usually written by a beginning author. Often, the Mary Sue is a self-insert with a few "improvements" (ex. better body, more popular, etc). The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe.

To me that isn't a Sue ending because Cousland arguably has a stronger claim then Alistiar himself for me for something to be sue it has to contradict the setting to allow the character's desires such as an Elf,Mage or Dwarf becoming royalty without issue.

First off, I'm not sure how someone with no association with the Therein line has a stronger claim than a Therein (otherwise Arl Eamon would have tried to put the Cousland warden on the throne) but Ferelden succesion laws are opaque and not fully fleshed out-- so I won't go there (although in most succesion laws I think legitimized bastards come before nobles unrelated to the royal blood line). 

However, even if she does have a stronger claim to Alistair to the throne -- that, again, just makes her even more of a Mary Sue -- everything about her is perfect and desirable and it's just another way she upstages Alistair and all the other main characters. It seems to me that you're pointing out random things to argue that it's not a Mary Sue ending but those things make it even more Mary Sue-esque. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 28 octobre 2013 - 02:03 .

[David7204]

It's tough.

Speaking as someone who is an incredibly strong advocate of heroism and good outcomes, I have to say you got to be real careful with happier every afters.

Life...it doesn't just curl up in a corner and sleep for decades.

After having those kinds of adventures, I get the feeling it's not how you live with a gun pointed at your head or a sword at your throat every day. It's how you live without it.

Look at us. Look at what we do. We want new villains. New threats. New challenges. There's excitement and wonder in that. Last thing we want is for things to be peaceful and the conflict to be over for the rest of forever.

That possibility of that future worries me much more than a nuclear war or alien invasion. I wrote out a new motive for the Reapers based on that.

Modifié par David7204, 28 octobre 2013 - 02:09 .

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

o.o Blue? That doesn't sound good....

Mass Effect reference. =P

Ah! Thank you.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Alistair got to be king. I got to be a stiff corpse.

After spending over 100 hours and 3 goddamn games with him/her, Shepard simply went poof like they were nothing. While everyone else got to live happily ever after.

[errant_knight]

You didn't have to be a stiff corpse, you chose to be one.

[Shadow Fox]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Star fury wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

Female Cousland ending when she marries Alistair and becomes a queen-consort is one Mary Sue ending.  I struggle to think a happier ending in a videogame, albeit it has one caveat which is only good. 

How is that Mary Sue? The Couslands were popular noblity so they accepted her as a queen.

It looks a lot like an ending for bad fanfics or romantic novels. I prefer an ending where Alistair rejects heartbroken female warden.

You do know that the only reason he has a  rather shakey claim himself is he's Maric's bastard right?Wheras Fem Cousland is a legitimate daugther to a popular noble family.

How is "legitimacy," either popular or by birth, relevant to whether or not a character or ending is a Mary-Sue? (And, for simplicity's sake, let's just ignore the fact that if you lose the Landsmeet you were not accepted by the nobles as "popular nobility," instead you butchered your way against Loghain in the throne room rather than accept defeat). The fact that, in one scenario, the female Cousland may have won the throne in the Landsmeet hardly makes her any less of a Mary Sue in the marry Alistar/become queen quintessential Mary Sue ending (in fact it makes her more of a Mary Sue as she either had the know-how or popularity to win the Landsmeet). 

Often abbreviated to "Sue". A Mary Sue character is usually written by a beginning author. Often, the Mary Sue is a self-insert with a few "improvements" (ex. better body, more popular, etc). The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe.

To me that isn't a Sue ending because Cousland arguably has a stronger claim then Alistiar himself for me for something to be sue it has to contradict the setting to allow the character's desires such as an Elf,Mage or Dwarf becoming royalty without issue.

First off, I'm not sure how someone with no association with the Therein line has a stronger claim than a Therein (otherwise Arl Eamon would have tried to put the Cousland warden on the throne) but Ferelden succesion laws are opaque and not fully fleshed out-- so I won't go there (although in most succesion laws I think legitimized bastards come before nobles unrelated to the royal blood line). 

However, even if she does have a stronger claim to Alistair to the throne -- that, again, just makes her even more of a Mary Sue -- everything about her is perfect and desirable and it's just another way she upstages Alistair and all the other main characters. It seems to me that you're pointing out random things to argue that it's not a Mary Sue ending but those things make it even more Mary Sue-esque. 

And how was Alistiar legitimized?He wasn't as far as I can remember as only Eamon vouced for him there was nothing validating aside from Eamon's word that he was of Therein blood.

No she would because unlike Alistiar she can actually prove her lineage wheras he can not and she doesn't: upstaging him would be becoming sole ruler which she can not do she needs Alistiar to be a ruler.

No I'm arguing the true sue in this case is Alistiar himself.

[errant_knight]

A mary sue/marty stu is a flawless character, often universally adored, perfect and well regarded by everyone. Neither the Cousland nor Alistair fits the definition. Both have potential enemies and flaws. A marginally happy ending, one which includes premature death and infertility, does not make a mary sue.

[Shadow Fox]

errant_knight wrote...

A mary sue/marty stu is a flawless character, often universally adored, perfect and well regarded by everyone. Neither the Cousland nor Alistair fits the definition. Both have potential enemies and flaws. A marginally happy ending, one which includes premature death and infertility, does not make a mary sue.

I was more talking about him becoming king.

[Estelindis]

To be honest, I feel like an amount of the "Sue" accusations come from bitterness at only this origin giving characters the chance to be queen or king. I've felt an amount of jealousy about it myself, on behalf of my city elf.

As a side note: if you're going to keep on with this legitimacy discussion, would you mind trimming that quote pyramid?

[Shadow Fox]

Estelindis wrote...

To be honest, I feel like an amount of the "Sue" accusations come from bitterness at only this origin giving characters the chance to be queen or king. I've felt an amount of jealousy about it myself, on behalf of my city elf.

As a side note: if you're going to keep on with this legitimacy discussion, would you mind trimming that quote pyramid?

I myself prefer letting Anora rule alone.
I don't intend to was just making a point if you're going to say Cousland's a sue because they can become a consort then Alistiar's a bigger one.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 29 octobre 2013 - 01:00 .

[snackrat]

Maybe they should switch it up and have the PC the only survivor. Have party members drop off or leave one by one, then finally the PC does that last act.

A mage party member made tranquil by templars, rogue thief making off with something of value (coughIsabelacough), a warrior attempting to hold a front line infected by taint, etc etc. Until you have only the PC and maybe one or two men standing.

[Gold Dragon]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Dream ending for the Inquisitor: A mansion with a harem and a pet dragon.

HIGH ROLLAH'!

And what is a female inquisitor going to do with a horde of women?

[Shadow Fox]

A Golden Dragon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Dream ending for the Inquisitor: A mansion with a harem and a pet dragon.

HIGH ROLLAH'!

And what is a female inquisitor going to do with a horde of women?

Yuri?

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

A Golden Dragon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Dream ending for the Inquisitor: A mansion with a harem and a pet dragon.

HIGH ROLLAH'!

And what is a female inquisitor going to do with a horde of women?

The most gloriously typical lesbian pillow fight of all time, of course. 

[Massa FX]

I want the option for a happy ending. I don't need RL consequence without a chance for a feelz good moment.

For those that disagree, I'm fine in having disaster endings. Just don't remove the player option for their feelz good triumphant moment. Again, for those that want tragedy in their gaming life so that it's more realistic... fine. Not saying there has to be a good ending, just I want the chance to have a happy good feelz ending.

[David7204]

I would appreciate people not assuming that 'realistic' automatically means tragic and sucky.

Because it doesn't.

Modifié par David7204, 29 octobre 2013 - 06:53 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

I would appreciate people not assuming that 'realistic' automatically means tragic and sucky.

Because it doesn't.

Not to you maybe. Then again, people aren't obligated to do anything for you in a video game, or with their preferences.

[simpatikool]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

A Golden Dragon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Dream ending for the Inquisitor: A mansion with a harem and a pet dragon.

HIGH ROLLAH'!

And what is a female inquisitor going to do with a horde of women?

The most gloriously typical lesbian pillow fight of all time, of course. 

Brilliant. Totally approve.

[Star fury]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I would appreciate people not assuming that 'realistic' automatically means tragic and sucky.

Because it doesn't.

Not to you maybe. Then again, people aren't obligated to do anything for you in a video game, or with their preferences.

Don't waste your time, he's either deluded or just a troll. I remember one time when he was presented cold hard numbers about videogame mods and he said they must be wrong because it goes against his views. He's most probably trolling. 

Modifié par Star fury, 29 octobre 2013 - 12:03 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Star fury wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I would appreciate people not assuming that 'realistic' automatically means tragic and sucky.

Because it doesn't.

Not to you maybe. Then again, people aren't obligated to do anything for you in a video game, or with their preferences.

Don't waste your time, he's either deluded or just a troll. I remember one time when he was presented numbers about mods and he said they must be wrong because it goes against his views. He's most probably trolling. 

Believe me, I know about him. He told me once that his views are the standard and that people like him are the reason 'good' things exist in the world. The unfortunate truth is, he's not trolling. It's really hard to believe that some people can really be this... out of touch. But then again, the BSN is the place where we get fringers and extremists. I can't say I'm not one of them, what with my defense of Cerberus and personal philosophy.

I'm the anti-David afterall. As proclaimed by the Clique.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 29 octobre 2013 - 11:59 .

[Star fury]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm the anti-David afterall. As proclaimed by the Clique.

LMAO. 

[rekn2]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I would appreciate people not assuming that 'realistic' automatically means tragic and sucky.

Because it doesn't.

Not to you maybe. Then again, people aren't obligated to do anything for you in a video game, or with their preferences.

Don't waste your time, he's either deluded or just a troll. I remember one time when he was presented numbers about mods and he said they must be wrong because it goes against his views. He's most probably trolling. 

Believe me, I know about him. He told me once that his views are the standard and that people like him are the reason 'good' things exist in the world. The unfortunate truth is, he's not trolling. It's really hard to believe that some people can really be this... out of touch. But then again, the BSN is the place where we get fringers and extremists. I can't say I'm not one of them, what with my defense of Cerberus and personal philosophy.

I'm the anti-David afterall. As proclaimed by the Clique.

dont put yourself in his lot. theres a difference between being philisophical and being a psycho.

[Xilizhra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I would appreciate people not assuming that 'realistic' automatically means tragic and sucky.

Because it doesn't.

Not to you maybe. Then again, people aren't obligated to do anything for you in a video game, or with their preferences.

He is not, however, incorrect in the belief that reality isn't inherently terrible.

[Annie_Dear]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Alistair got to be king. I got to be a stiff corpse.

After spending over 100 hours and 3 goddamn games with him/her, Shepard simply went poof like they were nothing. While everyone else got to live happily ever after.

Yes, they were either forced to:

a) have all technology destroyed
forced to fight the Reapers later
c) forced to mix their DNA with technology

And let's not forget all those people who died and how Earth is most likely a ruin.

Also, it was your choice to be a stiff corpse. We have a saying in Finland: "One sleeps like one makes his bed." Actions have consequences. You made your bed, now lie in it.