I've got a question and I've been pondering on this for some time. It's about the taint and the Calling ritual of Grey Wardens.
This is taken from the Dragon Age wikia: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Grey_Wardens
"According to ritual, the Grey Warden descends underground and celebrates
before entering the Deep Roads to slay as many darkspawn as they can
before being overwhelmed and slain. The secret of the Calling is implied
when Alistair reveals that the taint will kill the Grey Wardens,
although this is not true. It is unknown whether the truth was kept from
all the Grey Wardens or just its junior members such as Alistair, or
perhaps not at all (it is quite possible that the senior Wardens simply
did not get a chance to reveal the truth of the Calling to The Warden
before the battle at Ostagar), but it is likely that only the first Grey
Wardens with the exception of the characters in The Calling, knew the true nature of the Calling".
My question is, why is Alistair wrong here? What he says is the truth, if you survive the joining ritual, it's still a death sentence. In the end, the body of the Grey Warden won't be able to hold the taint for much longer (the moment they will experience dreams again). And so the Grey Wardens apply their calling ritual to prevent a body from becoming a ghoul taking down as many Darkspawn with them as they can.
The only aspect Alistair doesn't actually mention is that the nature of the Calling is not so much the sign that the taint is starting to destroy the Grey Warden, but rather that the old gods call to any darkspawn to find them which the Grey Warden hears as well. But I don't really see Alistair as not telling the truth here on the taint or the calling at all as the wiki claims.
Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
Why is Alistair wrong here?
Débuté par
Mystical80
, oct. 21 2013 01:36
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#2
Posté 21 octobre 2013 - 07:22
Ferretinabun
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I'm no lore geek, but it seems to be implying that the Grey Wardens taint themselves in the joining ritual - something about the ritual just allows the taint to take over very, very slowly. So, being allowed to run its course maybe a Grey Warden wouldn't actually die in the end - they would just become a ghoul. The ritual of the final walk down into the Deep Roads is just a means of committing suicide before the taint overwhelms them.
#3
Posté 21 octobre 2013 - 07:53
Shadow Fox
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Ghouls do tend to expire rather quickly and painfully though.Ferretinabun wrote...
I'm no lore geek, but it seems to be implying that the Grey Wardens taint themselves in the joining ritual - something about the ritual just allows the taint to take over very, very slowly. So, being allowed to run its course maybe a Grey Warden wouldn't actually die in the end - they would just become a ghoul. The ritual of the final walk down into the Deep Roads is just a means of committing suicide before the taint overwhelms them.
#4
Posté 21 octobre 2013 - 10:22
sylvanaerie
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Or hang on forever as in the case of Larius and that mute dwarven Gray Warden in Awakenings (who was around in the Calling novel when Duncan was a pup).
I think the Calling is just a fancy way to allow a GW to commit suicide in one last 'blaze of glory' staying true to their mission to slay the darkspawn, and dying human as opposed to going all ghoulish.
I think the Calling is just a fancy way to allow a GW to commit suicide in one last 'blaze of glory' staying true to their mission to slay the darkspawn, and dying human as opposed to going all ghoulish.
#5
Posté 21 octobre 2013 - 03:36
Corker
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I am a lore geek, and I think lore doesn't quite have its pants on straight here.
Early game information, particularly at Ostagar, hammers home the idea that darkspawn blood and the taint it carries is deadly. The mabari will die without treatment. Jory freaks out at the Joining. You are urged to torch Amaranthine in Awakening. It's a deadly communicable disease.
BUT THEN we meet Ruck, who's been a ghoul for five years. Tamlen manages for most of a year as a ghoul. With Una and Serrani, I think the Architect may have had a hand in extending their lives and sanity. I'm not sure what's in the novels, but I think someone probably realized that a slow descent into feral madness and joining with the horde you had devoted your life to destroying was WAY more dramatic than "you die", and so then that happened.
At present, I'd have to agree with Ferretinabun and sylvanaerie: The Calling (the ritual) is a suicide-by-darkspawn performed when a Warden begins to hear the Old Gods' Calling (the mystic song).
If a Warden were to be prevented from dying, they'll become a ghoul. I suspect that most people die quickly after that. Wardens may take a long time to die, as may some 'normals' - perhaps if Ruck had taken the Joining, he would have been a survivor. Whatever traits permit that, might also permit extended life in the ghoul state.
Early game information, particularly at Ostagar, hammers home the idea that darkspawn blood and the taint it carries is deadly. The mabari will die without treatment. Jory freaks out at the Joining. You are urged to torch Amaranthine in Awakening. It's a deadly communicable disease.
BUT THEN we meet Ruck, who's been a ghoul for five years. Tamlen manages for most of a year as a ghoul. With Una and Serrani, I think the Architect may have had a hand in extending their lives and sanity. I'm not sure what's in the novels, but I think someone probably realized that a slow descent into feral madness and joining with the horde you had devoted your life to destroying was WAY more dramatic than "you die", and so then that happened.
At present, I'd have to agree with Ferretinabun and sylvanaerie: The Calling (the ritual) is a suicide-by-darkspawn performed when a Warden begins to hear the Old Gods' Calling (the mystic song).
If a Warden were to be prevented from dying, they'll become a ghoul. I suspect that most people die quickly after that. Wardens may take a long time to die, as may some 'normals' - perhaps if Ruck had taken the Joining, he would have been a survivor. Whatever traits permit that, might also permit extended life in the ghoul state.
#6
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 02:29
Shadow of Light Dragon
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In the books, the Architect deliberately accelerates the spread of the Taint in those who agree to it. If I remember correctly (not at home right now) he explains it's that 'slow descent' that causes the most damage to sanity. Ghouls who have had the process fast-forwarded still have their issues, but they've made it to the other side of that threshold without prolonged suffering.
Add on to what Corker said in her last paragraph, you do see one Grey Warden ghoul surviving in a DA2 DLC.
Add on to what Corker said in her last paragraph, you do see one Grey Warden ghoul surviving in a DA2 DLC.
#7
Posté 22 octobre 2013 - 11:00
Mystical80
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All right, so I guess the wiki relates to the fact that the taint is not a death sentence in theory. A grey warden could end up becoming a ghoul and live on for several years as such.
I call that semantics though. A ghoul may be alive and all, but it is a mere fraction of the person he or she used to be. So the fact that Alistair clearly identifies that the taint will kill the Grey Warden in the end is not a bad explanation. Granted that he doesn't know that the taint could turn the Grey Warden into a ghoul and not outright kill the person, I think that Alistair wouldn't change his viewpoint even if he were told of this information.
I call that semantics though. A ghoul may be alive and all, but it is a mere fraction of the person he or she used to be. So the fact that Alistair clearly identifies that the taint will kill the Grey Warden in the end is not a bad explanation. Granted that he doesn't know that the taint could turn the Grey Warden into a ghoul and not outright kill the person, I think that Alistair wouldn't change his viewpoint even if he were told of this information.
