375 réponses à ce sujet

[Afro_Explosion]

Please let this thread die its unreasonabe to expect that just because some of the fans dislike a character, they will let us kill them. If our past choices make their death a necessity sure but not for our warden or hawkes desire for revenge because we're not playing as them.We are the inquisitor an unbiased character with no need to kill anyone YET

[Jorji Costava]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Why do people still think this? Our cycle stops the Reapers, and there's no frickin' way they would have done it without the help of: mass-relays, the Citadel, the Keepers, salvaging Sovereign's remains, the Reaper-IFF, Object Rho, (...)

This is seriously off-topic, but anyways, the problem is that there is a serious inconsistency between plot and theme in ME. Because the Reapers are so much more powerful than everyone else, the story needs a semi-plausible way for the galaxy's races to 'catch up' to them, and reverse-engineering or making use of Reaper technology is a convenient way to do it.

On the other hand, the theme that the use of technology or methods we somehow didn't "earn" is definitely evident in ME1 and ME3. The whole idea that the Reapers actually created the relays (a surprise in ME1) suggests that the relays are somehow 'tainted' and must be abandoned if the galaxy is to truly grow up (which is why the relays get destroyed and we get all the Garden of Eden imagery in ME3's ending). The Protheans' greatest victory was creating a Mass Relay on their own. And the Krogan are intended as a lesson on the mistake of 'uplifting' a species with technology and means that it isn't ready enough for. You can agree or disagree with these messages, but they are very much there.

[HiroVoid]

Ryzaki wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Legion's disagreement is consistent with his belief that accepting another technologies blinds you to alternate paths (It's not til ME3 that Legion starts betraying his characterization).

Legion's rationale for keeping the base is actually logical, whereas in destroying it, he resorts to purely symbolic BS.

Given that, is it any wonder he "betrayed" his former character? You can only sustain nonsense for so long.

Considering the whole game is based off how accepting another's technology screws you over his symbolic BS is actually correct.

*shrugs*

But isn't using the catalyst and other technology accepting other technologies?

[Linkenski]

Just go over to the Mass Effect boards already :-/

[KC_Prototype]

Dafuq is wrong with you???!! Morrigan was one of the best characters from DA:O and one of the greatest characters in DA. She's my wife and I will hunt you down if your even touch her you psycho!

[KC_Prototype]

Han Shot First wrote...

There is some speculation that Morrigan may turn out to be the big bad of DA:I, considering she plays a large role in the story (yet isn't a companion) and the 'villain' of the game is supposed to have some redeeming qualities, rather than being a one dimensional black hat.

If that turns out to be true no doubt Morrigan would be killable. My Inquisitor would kill her in that case, even though she had been my Warden's LI and gave birth to his son.

That would be one helluva of a twist but I hope to God she is not because I like Morrigan and don't want her to be killed and then my Warden has just become a single parent. Also, she did say her mother was more dangerous than her so I believe it's not likely to be Morrigan but not necessarily Flemeth either.

[Angrywolves]

has absolutely nothing to do with Morrigan being the big bad. She obviously isn't for one thing, for another this is about some players who enjoy killing, they didn't like Morrigan in DAO so they want to kill her in DAI. Apparently there are players who want to kill Flemeth and Leliana for similar reasons. I say Bioware should let them kill, but punish players with bad consequences for those actions . shrugs.

[Vilegrim]

David Gaider wrote...

My impression has always been that ANY character who doesn't put the player first above their own desires is betraying them. Those characters should realize the player is saving the world, or otherwise simply deserving of getting what they want, because the player can rationalize it.

In other words, it's another case of "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Calling it "betrayal" certainly makes it sound objectively worse than "they made me angry", however.

To me their is a difference between 'doesn't agree', which leads to the obvious 'then why are you here?' response and actively tries to sabotage/force the hand of the PC, I can see why Anders is so hated for his actions for instance, they made sense to him, and had a brutal logic, but oh boy where they a betrayal of trust.  The Sister Patrice quest line bugged the hell out of me as well, no room for 'hell no' responses, got 'but thou must' to an infuriating degree, she was a Chantry Sister, in the rough part of town at night...I'm not mugging her and leaving her corpse in the harbour...why?  She has Templars? Even better their gear is valuable, into the drink they go as well.  But no..work for the obvious loon...thanks.

KC_Prototype wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

There
is some speculation that Morrigan may turn out to be the big bad of
DA:I, considering she plays a large role in the story (yet isn't a
companion) and the 'villain' of the game is supposed to have some
redeeming qualities, rather than being a one dimensional black hat.

If
that turns out to be true no doubt Morrigan would be killable. My
Inquisitor would kill her in that case, even though she had been my
Warden's LI and gave birth to his son.

That would be one
helluva of a twist but I hope to God she is not because I like Morrigan
and don't want her to be killed and then my Warden has just become a
single parent. Also, she did say her mother was more dangerous than her
so I believe it's not likely to be Morrigan but not necessarily Flemeth
either.

If she is I would feel disappointed to say the least to not here her reasons and be able to join Team Morrigan.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 29 novembre 2013 - 10:46 .

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider wrote...

My impression has always been that ANY character who doesn't put the player first above their own desires is betraying them. Those characters should realize the player is saving the world, or otherwise simply deserving of getting what they want, because the player can rationalize it.

In other words, it's another case of "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Calling it "betrayal" certainly makes it sound objectively worse than "they made me angry", however.

This actually reminds me of the involved Alistair-at-Landsmeet discussion in this thread, after which my perspective changed significantly.

Also, I'll add that even on plays where Morrigan was my BFF gal-pal, I never looked at the DR as a betrayal -- I benefited from it, after all--, and was always puzzled by the dialog options that show that your PC felt betrayed. Morrigan had, has, and always will have her own agenda.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 29 novembre 2013 - 11:52 .

[Angrywolves]

she won't be the big bad. That's just wishful thinking on the part of the players who want to kill Morrigan to justify it in their own minds.

[x-aizen-x]

David Gaider wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...
Why does the BSN want tot kill or romance everyone

I'm not sure which is more creepy, to be honest, the inevitable "will I get to romance them?" when any character is mentioned or the vaguely psychopathic "this character annoyed me at some point so I want to be able to slaughter them, even if it's with a new character who would know nothing about it".

We had a guy in a tabletop I was once in who did that. He'd roll a new character specifically to kill another party member who, in his mind, was responsible for his previous character's death. He was kind of a dick.

Anyway, yeah. Ultimately, the chances I would allow a character to be killed solely because the player might have some lingering grudge from two games ago? Nil. If it makes sense in the current story? Absolutely. If it doesn't make sense, will accusations of "plot armor" arise? Sure, and yet.

I will just be honest I just cant stand people like that. Your right it is very psychotic. killing a character because I got a little annoyed instead of just leaving them be. But wanting to kill morrigan 2 games latter just because of so stuff she did in the first game is childish. ill never understand the obsession that people have will killing of their most of their followers just because they had a funny look. DO they have any idea of the content they might be loosing. 

[Angrywolves]

Agreed. Kill Morrigan . Kill the dalish. Yes the vaguely creepy descriptions are out today.

[Muspade]

Ever thought of hugging Morrigan instead?

Hugging the Dalish?

Hugging them so hard they wheeze and lose the ability to breathe?

[nightscrawl]

x-aizen-x wrote...

I will just be honest I just cant stand people like that. Your right it is very psychotic. killing a character because I got a little annoyed instead of just leaving them be. But wanting to kill morrigan 2 games latter just because of so stuff she did in the first game is childish. ill never understand the obsession that people have will killing of their most of their followers just because they had a funny look. DO they have any idea of the content they might be loosing. 

I'm sure part of this behavior has to do with the restraint that we have to exercise in the real world. If your boss pisses you off you can't punch them in the face, much less kill them, so being able to do so in a fantasy setting is rather liberating.

I can compare it to meting out my own justice during various scenarios. It is very satisfying to be able to outright kill a deranged bastard like Kelder during Magistrate's Orders. I can't do that in real life because we have laws and the (less than perfect) criminal justice system.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 novembre 2013 - 12:15 .

[Dave of Canada]

nightscrawl wrote...

I can compare it to meting out my own justice during various scenarios. It is very satisfying to be able to outright kill a deranged bastard like Kelder during Magistrate's Orders. I can't do that in real life because we have laws and the (less than perfect) criminal justice system.

Magistrate's Orders should've had consequences for killing Kelder.

[ImperatorMortis]

ladyofpayne wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...
Poor girl. And I dindn't betray her- she lied to me and she betrayed me.

How'd she lied and betrayed you? Oh wait! She wanted to sleep with your King Alistair to save his ass and yours?

She wanted to use my Warden or Alistair for her needs. I don't like people use me and leave. Morrigan is lying and selfish woman.

This post is beyond idiotic. 

[Angrywolves]

I prefer to use the term silly to describe those folks. Less inflammatory.

[HiroVoid]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...
Poor girl. And I dindn't betray her- she lied to me and she betrayed me.

How'd she lied and betrayed you? Oh wait! She wanted to sleep with your King Alistair to save his ass and yours?

She wanted to use my Warden or Alistair for her needs. I don't like people use me and leave. Morrigan is lying and selfish woman.

This post is beyond idiotic. 

It's actually pretty accurate.  Morrigan's purpose was to use the Warden for the OGB at the end and she IS selfish. 

[Angrywolves]

To carry a grudge from DAO to DAI is silly, especially since it's not the warden but the Inquisitor. Even Gaider questions it.
shrugs.

[HiroVoid]

Well, the player can carry a grudge though the character shouldn't. As for the reply, I was just going by what was in the post that was described as idiotic which actually wasn't far off if not fairly accurate of Morrigan.

[Angrywolves]

Doesn't mean you should kill her though.

[Ryzaki]

HiroVoid wrote...
But isn't using the catalyst and other technology accepting other technologies?

You consider the RGB endings good? They were bandages (not to mention destroy pretty much originally balanced itself out by destroying all said technology).

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Why do people still think this? Our cycle stops
the Reapers, and there's no frickin' way they would have done it
without the help of: mass-relays, the Citadel, the Keepers, salvaging
Sovereign's remains, the Reaper-IFF, Object Rho, (...)

And they wouldn't have been in that position in the first place if they hadn't relied on Reaper technology. (Not to mention the cycle only wins because goddler decides to go along with it since "my solution doesn't work anymore").

And most of the things that allow the cycle to stop the Reapers are things such as the Prothean warnings, and the Protheans sabotaging the keepers and the Prothean virius that pretty mcuh stopped Sovereign from brute force hacking. It wasn't Shep's cycle that did anything. They had their victory pretty much handed to them on the bones of those who came before.

And osbornep said it better than I did.

Ontopic: My issue with Morrigan was the whole if hostile "You do what you will and so shall I" and the Warden just lets her saunter past. I mean...he/she should've at least been able to attempt a confrontation even if Morrigan just vanished. Standing there with a pout is completely off putting.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 30 novembre 2013 - 02:14 .

[ImperatorMortis]

Ryzaki wrote...

And they wouldn't have been in that position in the first place if they hadn't relied on Reaper technology. (Not to mention the cycle only wins because goddler decides to go along with it since "my solution doesn't work anymore").

Captain hindsight. 

[nightscrawl]

Dave of Canada wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

I can compare it to meting out my own justice during various scenarios. It is very satisfying to be able to outright kill a deranged bastard like Kelder during Magistrate's Orders. I can't do that in real life because we have laws and the (less than perfect) criminal justice system.

Magistrate's Orders should've had consequences for killing Kelder.

Perhaps it should have. But that doesn't lessen the point of my post, which was influencing the game in ways that are not possible in real life, and killing one's companions goes along with that.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 novembre 2013 - 02:37 .

[sethcorvinus]

As a Morrigan fan and my main LI, i used her to stay alive as well as she used me to gain her baby, but hearing of her upbringing with Flemeth, i can understand her being so sheltered and then developing feelings she has for my Warden-Commander towards the end for the stories sake i hope my Warden is with her since i went through it with her