375 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

i give up i could explain that thousand times but i peoples will shouting still if you don't sign 1000 contrats with someone and don't get permision from goverment you can't betray someone... it is like talking with pro-mages or templars about their faction.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

Pot meet kettle

[Ryzaki]

Morrigan no more betrays the Warden when she leaves the the Warden betrays her by not doing the DR.

Yeah she ditches you at the 11th hour but she's not necessary to the war effort anyway whatsoever and she was always free to leave whenever she wanted to. The same goes for pretty much everyone in your party.

[Hazegurl]

Everyone is very well aware of what you mean and anyone who disagrees with you does because they don't see it the same way. Morrigan never set you up. You refused her offer and therefore she had no reason to stay with you. Just like Leliana will try to kill you or leave if you go against something she feels strongly about, same with Wynne, Zevran, and Ohgren. They all can leave you whenever they want.

[DarthSliver]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

i give up i could explain that thousand times but i peoples will shouting still if you don't sign 1000 contrats with someone and don't get permision from goverment you can't betray someone... it is like talking with pro-mages or templars about their faction.

Morrigan joins you in the first place because her mother, Flemeth, makes her join you. So when she leaves because she disagrees with you or whatever I wouldnt really count that as betrayal. More like she is betraying her mothers wishes but not per say you, the warden.

DA:I our character is a new person, doesnt know the Morrigan shenanigans going on. Morrigan is a new person to your Inquistor, so be fair and look at it from that view when playing Inquistor the first time. After the first time playing the game, than you go off playing things like your Inquistor knows the previous games

[Milan92]

Oh dear not this thread again.

[HiroVoid]

Didn't Zevran make a vow too? Can't remember the conditions since he leaves sometimes after killing the Crows in his sidequest? I think Sten may have made some type of vow though he'll attack you if he thinks you're doing a crappy job at leading.

[DarthSliver]

Milan92 wrote...

Oh dear not this thread again.

Oh this isnt the first time this thread appeared? 

Its the first one for me lol

[Hazegurl]

HiroVoid wrote...

Didn't Zevran make a vow too? Can't remember the conditions since he leaves sometimes after killing the Crows in his sidequest? I think Sten may have made some type of vow though he'll attack you if he thinks you're doing a crappy job at leading.

I know Zev makes a vow but I'm not sure about Sten. But it sounds like something he would do. I think you could ask him what he would do if he doesn't find atonement fighting with you but I forgot his answer.

[Afro_Explosion]

So people want to kill here because they feel slighted, the inquisitor has no reason to kill morrigan by taking old prejudices into a new game your cheapening the experience.

Modifié par mx_keep13, 28 novembre 2013 - 06:35 .

[Milan92]

DarthSliver wrote...

Milan92 wrote...

Oh dear not this thread again.

Oh this isnt the first time this thread appeared? 

Its the first one for me lol

I was mostly talking in general about the numerous threads that have appeared over time about wanting the option to kill a certain character because the OP got annoyed by that said character 

[Killdren88]

Hazegurl wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Didn't Zevran make a vow too? Can't remember the conditions since he leaves sometimes after killing the Crows in his sidequest? I think Sten may have made some type of vow though he'll attack you if he thinks you're doing a crappy job at leading.

I know Zev makes a vow but I'm not sure about Sten. But it sounds like something he would do. I think you could ask him what he would do if he doesn't find atonement fighting with you but I forgot his answer.

Zev and Sten made vows to follow the Warden. But everyone else came as they saw fit. If anything the only real traitor is Zev considering that 1. He made a vow to follow you and if your approval isn't high enough he will attack you with the Crows. And even if he didn't he entertains the thought after you kill the crows since he no longer needs a shield.

[David Gaider]

My impression has always been that ANY character who doesn't put the player first above their own desires is betraying them. Those characters should realize the player is saving the world, or otherwise simply deserving of getting what they want, because the player can rationalize it.

In other words, it's another case of "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Calling it "betrayal" certainly makes it sound objectively worse than "they made me angry", however.

[Medhia Nox]

I think she lied to you about what was in the grimoire to see if she could manipulate you into killing her mother.

Who does that?

"Yeah, so - um, we're friends right?"

"Oh, yeah - great friends. What's up?"

"Well, my mom's mean. Like REAL mean. SO - uh, let's kill her?"

"Oh, well - you're my friend, and someone who would obviously NEVER manipulate or lie to me because you've shown that you're absolutely not a self-serving egotistical materialist hellbent on power and cruelty. And since you've just said that book we conveniently found in the tower says your mom's going to kill you... I should probably help you go kill her first!"

====

That Flemeth doesn't bother denying it - simply harkens to her prescience ... and her lack of patience for the Warden's idiocy.

Her comment if you don't allow yourself to be manipulated by either of them speaks as such.

===

And no, I didn't kill her for it.  

I just rolled my eyes and told her she needed to be on a WB show about rich debutant mean girls. 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 28 novembre 2013 - 06:32 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

DarthSliver wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

i give up i could explain that thousand times but i peoples will shouting still if you don't sign 1000 contrats with someone and don't get permision from goverment you can't betray someone... it is like talking with pro-mages or templars about their faction.

Morrigan joins you in the first place because her mother, Flemeth, makes her join you. So when she leaves because she disagrees with you or whatever I wouldnt really count that as betrayal. More like she is betraying her mothers wishes but not per say you, the warden.

DA:I our character is a new person, doesnt know the Morrigan shenanigans going on. Morrigan is a new person to your Inquistor, so be fair and look at it from that view when playing Inquistor the first time. After the first time playing the game, than you go off playing things like your Inquistor knows the previous games

As i said i won't respond on morrigan betreyal comments because it is just talking to the wall.

But you added asumption that my pc will kill morrigan because her actions in previous game not because he is manipulative power hungry witch without loyalty i don't see point why i shouldn't kill her as pro-templar or just anti-mage or cautious character when she is slimy and toxic person and we can see that just by looking on her.

David Gaider wrote...

My impression has always been that
ANY character who doesn't put the player first above their own desires
is betraying them. Those characters should realize the player is saving
the world, or otherwise simply deserving of getting what they want,
because the player can rationalize it.

In other words, it's
another case of "I don't think that word means what you think it means."
Calling it "betrayal" certainly makes it sound objectively worse than
"they made me angry", however.

Well what i said if you join to organisation , party or person and then you escape from group leaving them on ice is betrayal whether it is goverment organisation , independent organisation , group , friend or just lover (otherwise individual) . 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 28 novembre 2013 - 06:48 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

She lives. She won't die. She'll never die. Just like Flemeth. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Hazegurl]

David Gaider wrote...

My impression has always been that ANY character who doesn't put the player first above their own desires is betraying them. Those characters should realize the player is saving the world, or otherwise simply deserving of getting what they want, because the player can rationalize it.

In other words, it's another case of "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Calling it "betrayal" certainly makes it sound objectively worse than "they made me angry", however.

I think that's what it boils down to. Morrigan made some players angry for ditching them and therefore they believe she deserves death as a result. I do love the fact that the game gives us the option to feel slighted as well as the option to "kill" her for it, even though I personally would never take it. But overall I think death is an extreme punishment to give for the "crime". lol!

[HiroVoid]

David Gaider wrote...

My impression has always been that ANY character who doesn't put the player first above their own desires is betraying them. Those characters should realize the player is saving the world, or otherwise simply deserving of getting what they want, because the player can rationalize it.

In other words, it's another case of "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Calling it "betrayal" certainly makes it sound objectively worse than "they made me angry", however.

Hmm.....so does that means it would be an exaggeration to say that Alistair betrays the Grey Wardens (or Grey Warden cause) for not participating in fighting the blight at the end if you let Loghain live?  I can understand why he would leave since he feels betrayed, but I would still think it would count as betrayal under 'desertion'.

[Jestina]

So this is going to be a force Morrigan on the player game...or will there be an option to delete her?

[Killdren88]

Jestina wrote...

So this is going to be a force Morrigan on the player game...or will there be an option to delete her?

She is in the game but hardly forced on you.

[Medhia Nox]

@HiroVoid: THAT is a betrayal - and if my Warden had any real sense of military organization (he was never really part of the Wardens as an organization - it was always just the Warden and Alistair until the end) he would have Alistair court martialed.

As I had no time to deal with his childish temper tantrum - I simply let him slink off into drunken irrelevance.

Morrigan doing anything self-centered is just... Morrigan.

[HiroVoid]

Hazegurl wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

My impression has always been that ANY character who doesn't put the player first above their own desires is betraying them. Those characters should realize the player is saving the world, or otherwise simply deserving of getting what they want, because the player can rationalize it.

In other words, it's another case of "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Calling it "betrayal" certainly makes it sound objectively worse than "they made me angry", however.

I think that's what it boils down to. Morrigan made some players angry for ditching them and therefore they believe she deserves death as a result. I do love the fact that the game gives us the option to feel slighted as well as the option to "kill" her for it, even though I personally would never take it. But overall I think death is an extreme punishment to give for the "crime". lol!

I actually took the option with my Orlesian Warden who mostly just thought she was a dangerous witch.  The whole convo's pretty hilarious too. 

Orlesian Warden: Who is Flemeth?

[Jestina]

You pretty much had to leave her at camp, unless your decisions were selfish and/or bad. If you made "good" decisions then she would hate on you. And then there was the annoyance of her constant bickering with Alistair.

[Maria Caliban]

Killdren88 wrote...

Jestina wrote...

So this is going to be a force Morrigan on the player game...or will there be an option to delete her?

She is in the game but hardly forced on you.

The mere existence of an NPC I dislike is the writers stripping the player of agency to prop up their personal Mary-Sue.

Besides, I stabbed her, so she should be dead in my playthrough. If a choice doesn't give me exactly the outcome I want then it's because is BioWare railroading the narrative.

[Ryzaki]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I think she lied to you about what was in the grimoire to see if she could manipulate you into killing her mother.

Who does that?

"Yeah, so - um, we're friends right?"

"Oh, yeah - great friends. What's up?"

"Well, my mom's mean. Like REAL mean. SO - uh, let's kill her?"

"Oh, well - you're my friend, and someone who would obviously NEVER manipulate or lie to me because you've shown that you're absolutely not a self-serving egotistical materialist hellbent on power and cruelty. And since you've just said that book we conveniently found in the tower says your mom's going to kill you... I should probably help you go kill her first!"

====

That Flemeth doesn't bother denying it - simply harkens to her prescience ... and her lack of patience for the Warden's idiocy.

Her comment if you don't allow yourself to be manipulated by either of them speaks as such.

===

And no, I didn't kill her for it.  

I just rolled my eyes and told her she needed to be on a WB show about rich debutant mean girls. 

I love picking that then going back to Morrigan and going "Yeah no I'm not buying your crap."

[Angrywolves]

Ah betrayal. I remember that word from my old Flying Buffalo starweb pbm days. Rich Buda wrote a couple of articles about betrayal. That was back in the 1980s.
Betrayal. Betrayal never changes. Rotfl.
They've already said your DAI companions can turn against you. Varric complains about abandoning Crestwood in the Pax video. Then when you do the village gets massacred. Some silly players thought those dead villagers were hawke's other DA2 companions . And posted that it had to be so as to explain Varric's reaction. Of course they were wrong , I had to roll my eyes at that, but Varric was upset. Too many more of those and Varric will turn against the Inquisitor, that's obvious . Other companions will turn for other reasons. It can be called betrayal, standards , standing up for principles or morals, Leliana's Maker based philosophy or Morrigan's greed based one, if you know that can happen you can prepare for it.
smiles.