318 réponses à ce sujet

[Supreme Leech]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

XFG-65 wrote...

dumdum2 wrote...
What? You also promote like an idiot for N7 rank? 

This really hurt .

You are an idiot, so...

Ouch. I thought we were friends?

[Heldarion]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Let me sum it up a little easier Deerber. 200 points of barrier equates to around 1 bullet from the most basic trooper on Plat. Not one volley of 3 to 5 rounds which will shieldgate a drell regardless but one bullet out of that volley.

The 325 shields from basic human equates to around 2-3 bullets from the most basic enemies. And there isn't that many basic enemies in Plat.

But if you play Gold?

[NuclearTech76]

XFG-65 wrote...

The thing that has always bothered me about the drell infiltrator is not knowing how to spec him. Like you guys have already mentioned, I always like to go full fitness on drells for that 20% movement speed bonus. But what about the rest of his points - do I skip a couple ranks of his passives? Do I just completely leave out homing grenades? I always max out his mine and grenades, but not really sure how to allocate the rest of his points, so I don't play him much.

If sniping leave out homing nades. If any other weapon I go 46664 personally. Disruptor rounds are where you want to be that way recon mine has a wide aoe tech burst in addition to the hellacious damage of RM and HGs at the same time. Anything not dead is staggered and should be promptly filled with bullets to the head.

[NuclearTech76]

Heldarion wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Let me sum it up a little easier Deerber. 200 points of barrier equates to around 1 bullet from the most basic trooper on Plat. Not one volley of 3 to 5 rounds which will shieldgate a drell regardless but one bullet out of that volley.

The 325 shields from basic human equates to around 2-3 bullets from the most basic enemies. And there isn't that many basic enemies in Plat.

But if you play Gold?

It's still pretty minimal in the grand scheme when you count the normal attack iterations can be more than a 3 to 5 round burst per enemy and a few bursts per iteration IIRC. I'd have to check Cyonan's enemy damage thread to refresh my brain. Drell is a lot more complex than just those numbers because of DR, movement speed screwing enemy accuracy, etc and I know I'm minimizing those 200 in barriers there but again it usually isn't necessary to spec out of fitness on a Drell.

[MASSKETEER]

Deerber wrote...

MASSKETEER wrote...
  
I see. Thanx for the explanation. I just had the impression that I could survive a little longer with the drell when using a full fitness build. But obviously my impression was wrong and it rather was my gameplay.
Thanx a lot. Maybe I can drell even better now 

Anytime. But let me be clear: you do survive a lot more going full fitness, and you should always go full fitness with any Drell.

But, that's simply more for the 20% speed increase than for the x% health/shields increase. So on other classes, that do not offer that speed increase, going full fitness is usually... Well, a lot less useful, trying to state things as objectively as possible.

Yes you´re right, 20% (and not 10) increase in movement speed are of course more useful in terms of survivability than this few extra points in health and shields. Sorry, I temporarily speced out of brain.

NuclearTech76 wrote...


Eh you can definitely get away without full fitness on the Infiltrator if running and gunning with homing nades. I ran a harrier build on Plat with only four fitness for a long time. No cyclonics, or adren either. Power amps for the nades and RM. Swarmers are a **** though.

  

Swarmers are bosses 

[NuclearTech76]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12857200

Damage values per enemy. Do these figure in the enemy out of cover damage bonus of enemies or is that additional damage?

[Arctican]

Spending 3 ranks into fitness is usually worth it. It's usually more for surviving DoT attacks rather than normal attacks.

[IamZAE]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12857200

Damage values per enemy. Do these figure in the enemy out of cover damage bonus of enemies or is that additional damage?

fitness gives you as little as 325shields and 325 health.... that still benefits greatly. ill explain why

1. when u get in cover you get your normal DR  back naturally... so its easier to survive dot attacks from bosses when u need to emergency camp cover.

2. many situations (unexpected scenarios) where you get shot with enemy fire from unexpected angles that there was nothing you can do but survive.

3. iif your fleeing to saftey while taking fire those little bit of shields amd health could in many cases help you to barely survive to cover safety.

4. it allows you to have more reation time to use your ops paxk both on and off host which is HUGE

5. more fitness protects the player from the UNEXPECTED encounters

[Mikael_Sebastia]

Deerber wrote...
First of all, unless explicitely specified, I guess one should assume the OP is talking about the normal circumstances of this game. Which is definitely not a platinum duo on Condor, but a 4 men team on a random map instead. It's pretty obvious that in duos and solos fitness starts to get much more importance because you get double, or 4 times, the aggro. I don't suppose it's hard to imagine, is it?

-snip-

Actually now when I read the OP again, it does indeed say that “Fitness is only decent, if there is no other better power options”, which is a blank statement and weasel wording, which translates to me “sometimes fitness is a decent option and sometimes it’s not”. Pretty same as saying “always allocate your points effectively”. I don’t see it telling anything about anything, except maybe a stretch interpretation that full passives are better than full fitness, which is true, if you are forced to max out just one of those two. I don’t see that there’s anything to talk about the OP, and I guess, I was more caught to the catchier tittle “Fitness is for scrubs”.

I too use a lot of zero fitness builds, but then gain I also use a lot of builds where I’ve specced between anything from three to full fitness (even just for those shields, without it being “a tanky kit”), very conditional stuff, where it’s difficult to find any absolute and categorical rules, especially ones which divides people into scrubs or pros. So I guess, after all by the OP, Fitness can be a useful option for a Tsol, a classical non-sniper infiltrator 4/6/6/6/4 build, non-Stasis Asari Vanguard, 3/0 Pull AJA, and many many more.

If there’s something concrete said here, I at least don’t get it. Ofc, it sort of scrapes an interesting issue of how useful or useless is fitness on a gold+ difficulty, and which kits benefit from it and which don’t’, and are there any relevance between subtle differences in shields&health (in short, my opinion is that there is, and those 200-300 extra shields can benefit you greatly, even on a plat. It's not entirely on shield and health gates). But all that is quite wide subject to talk about, so I'll pass.

Modifié par Mikael_Sebastia, 23 octobre 2013 - 11:33 .

[Bladedrummer]

Wow, what a circle jerk.

[Rotward]

Psst. Ya'll are posting in a troll thread. The title gives it away, in case you were wondering.

[Creator Limbs]

Actually, because this is NuclearTech...no.

[Heldarion]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Let me sum it up a little easier Deerber. 200 points of barrier equates to around 1 bullet from the most basic trooper on Plat. Not one volley of 3 to 5 rounds which will shieldgate a drell regardless but one bullet out of that volley.

The 325 shields from basic human equates to around 2-3 bullets from the most basic enemies. And there isn't that many basic enemies in Plat.

But if you play Gold?

It's still pretty minimal in the grand scheme when you count the normal attack iterations can be more than a 3 to 5 round burst per enemy and a few bursts per iteration IIRC. I'd have to check Cyonan's enemy damage thread to refresh my brain. Drell is a lot more complex than just those numbers because of DR, movement speed screwing enemy accuracy, etc and I know I'm minimizing those 200 in barriers there but again it usually isn't necessary to spec out of fitness on a Drell.

You could be right, but extra HP/shields gives you more time to react to unexpected bursts. However I mostly spec into fitness when there's nothing useful I can spec into with certain powers (i.e. combat drone on HE, Concussive shot on my shotty HSol).

Modifié par Heldarion, 23 octobre 2013 - 11:30 .

[cato potato]

Rotward wrote...

Psst. Ya'll are posting in a troll thread. The title gives it away, in case you were wondering.

Psst. It's not a troll thread. The name of the opening poster gives it away, in case you were wondering.

[Moby]

XFG-65 wrote...

The thing that has always bothered me about the drell infiltrator is not knowing how to spec him. Like you guys have already mentioned, I always like to go full fitness on drells for that 20% movement speed bonus. But what about the rest of his points - do I skip a couple ranks of his passives? Do I just completely leave out homing grenades? I always max out his mine and grenades, but not really sure how to allocate the rest of his points, so I don't play him much.

Try 4 Cloak, 4 passives (power damage).  Works with any non-sniper weapon (cough cough Raider).

[jupitersj]

Technically, since Fitness does almost nothing compared to increasing DPS, would not the scrubs be those who take the easier way out via DPS? 

p.s. I'm a DPS scrub.

[NuclearTech76]

Mikael_Sebastia wrote...

Deerber wrote...
First of all, unless explicitely specified, I guess one should assume the OP is talking about the normal circumstances of this game. Which is definitely not a platinum duo on Condor, but a 4 men team on a random map instead. It's pretty obvious that in duos and solos fitness starts to get much more importance because you get double, or 4 times, the aggro. I don't suppose it's hard to imagine, is it?

-snip-

Actually now when I read the OP again, it does indeed say that “Fitness is only decent, if there is no other better power options”, which is a blank statement and weasel wording, which translates to me “sometimes fitness is a decent option and sometimes it’s not”. Pretty same as saying “always allocate your points effectively”. I don’t see it telling anything about anything, except maybe a stretch interpretation that full passives are better than full fitness, which is true, if you are forced to max out just one of those two. I don’t see that there’s anything to talk about the OP, and I guess, I was more caught to the catchier tittle “Fitness is for scrubs”.

I too use a lot of zero fitness builds, but then gain I also use a lot of builds where I’ve specced between anything from three to full fitness (even just for those shields, without it being “a tanky kit”), very conditional stuff, where it’s difficult to find any absolute and categorical rules, especially ones which divides people into scrubs or pros. So I guess, after all by the OP, Fitness can be a useful option for a Tsol, a classical non-sniper infiltrator 4/6/6/6/4 build, non-Stasis Asari Vanguard, 3/0 Pull AJA, and many many more.

If there’s something concrete said here, I at least don’t get it. Ofc, it sort of scrapes an interesting issue of how useful or useless is fitness on a gold+ difficulty, and which kits benefit from it and which don’t’, and are there any relevance between subtle differences in shields&health (in short, my opinion is that there is, and those 200-300 extra shields can benefit you greatly, even on a plat. It's not entirely on shield and health gates). But all that is quite wide subject to talk about, so I'll pass.

Busted. The title was kind of baiting to make the conversation more lively.

You're last paragraph was the point of the thread to evaluate the merit of fitness on higher difficulties and to challenge people to evaluate whether they thought it really works. I still argue that most of the time unless you have DR or can hit that magic 1000 shields number it's really lackluster in terms of survivability. If you have a power that increases your DPS output, you're better off with that than messing with fitness.

[NuclearTech76]

Completely agree OP. You are a gentleman and a scholar. 

[Kurt M.]

3)if you have a class designed entirely around being a tank, like the Juggernaut. Which most juggernauts suck anyways so I guess it still sucks.

 

As if I haven't seen tons of Geth Juggernauts kicking so much ass I believed they were even invincible...

[HeroicMass]

Completely agree OP. You are a gentlemanscrub and scholarbored . 

[NuclearTech76]

Hey I thought it might be more productive than debating who is the sexiest sexist pig on BSN for a change. 

[N7 Tigger]

If sniping leave out homing nades. If any other weapon I go 46664 personally. Disruptor rounds are where you want to be that way recon mine has a wide aoe tech burst in addition to the hellacious damage of RM and HGs at the same time. Anything not dead is staggered and should be promptly filled with bullets to the head.

 

Scrub.

[HeroicMass]

Hey I thought it might be more productive than debating who is the sexiest sexist pig on BSN for a change. 

most things are more productive than that.  Carry on.

 

Also, fitness is situationally useful

[robarcool]

Umm, the concept of fitness is sexist? That's all I can come up with at the moment.

[Terminator Force]

You say it's for scrubs yet you toss on a cyclonic mod on? OK, whatever you say.