144 réponses à ce sujet

[JediGuy]

I'm just gonna leave this here.


http://www.escapistm...tm_campaign=all


Thoughts?

Modifié par JediGuy, 21 octobre 2013 - 06:30 .

[David7204]

I hate this guy within 5 seconds of seeing him for the first time.

[Hellion Rex]

David7204 wrote...

I hate this guy within 5 seconds of seeing him for the first time.

I could not make it through the entire video.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I agree with David, though I never opened the link!

[delete_guest]

.

[Wulfram]

Saying the sex scenes are the end in DA relationships isn't true, though. Except Leliana, anyway. In DA2 they're more or less the middle, leaving aside Sebastian for obvious reasons.

[JediGuy]

Kaiser Arian wrote...

I agree with David, though I never opened the link!

So you hate someone without even knowing his name or seeing his face? Makes sense.

[JediGuy]

Wulfram wrote...

Saying the sex scenes are the end in DA relationships isn't true, though. Except Leliana, anyway. In DA2 they're more or less the middle, leaving aside Sebastian for obvious reasons.

True, I guess Morrigan's romance in DA:O is the best counterpoint to his arguments, since it can happen as soon as you leave Lothering and there's more content to it even after the scene. The bit he says about wish-fulfilment is somewhat spot on, though.

Modifié par JediGuy, 21 octobre 2013 - 06:43 .

[ScarMK]

I watched and had more interest in the ad I was shown than I did for the video itself.

[JCAP]

Didn't manage to see the video to the end, but I am proud of myself to be able to endure to the middle.


My thoughts are that he just read that Bioware games have romances and sex scenes, and used the amazing power of logic to conclude and call those games immature. 100% sure he didn't play any of them.


During the minutes I was able to endure (still wondering how), the only good point he made is that games don't need sex to be mature, but it was really out of place. Like talking about how dogs are similar to wolfs during a conversation about cats.

[Wulfram]

I think he's probably played Mass Effect, but not DA, or at least not the DA romances.

(I tweeted at him contesting the stuff about sex being the end, using DA2 as an example and he said he'd check it out and revise if he thought necessary. At least he was polite and very prompt in response)

Modifié par Wulfram, 21 octobre 2013 - 07:01 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

the implication that any attempt at depth/meaning (ambiguous though those goals may be) that he deems a failure is instantly gratuity on par with Dead or Alive is kind of... weird, from the guy who touts himself as a beacon of nuance and rationality. I really like Jim but this week he went for the most visible target instead of the most relevant to his point, I think. And it's not like he doesn't have a point, just... hrm.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 21 octobre 2013 - 07:11 .

[BioWareM0d13]

I thought it was hilarious and he makes some valid points.

I also think he was was wrong on a couple points, but at least he was humorous while being wrong. I gave the thread 5 stars.

[MissOuJ]

I knew this would end up here sooner or later.

I usually agree with Jim on most topics, but I think it is pretty clear Jim either hasn't paid much attention to the romances, or hasn't played through them at all. Even a passing glance at DA romances tells you that he's way off: most of the time sex scenes aren't even at the end of the game, and aren't the culmination of the romance at all (prime examples being Morrigan and Zevran in DA:O and Fenris and Isabela in DA2 - in fact all of the romance scenes in DA2 took place in the second act of the game!). The gift giving system is a bit problematic, true, but I find the Friend Zone meme comparison is a bit excessive, but then again not entirely wrong, since the romance mechanics do sometimes include "talk about feelings X amount of times, give Y amount of gifts, push the button to initiate sex and romance" type interactions, so that claim is not completely without merit either. Then again the alternatives seem to be "I am willing to bone you form the word 'Go!'" and "run to do this sidequest real quick for me, and after that we can bone!" and "save me from my kidnapper / would-be rapist, and after that we can bone", and none of those options are much better.

Also, I think he misses the point as to why people like / play the romances in the first place, which is not, in fact, for the sex scenes (because again, BW doesn't really do explicit sex scenes, and I really doubt there's a person in the world who considers the DA:O sex scenes the hight of titillating erotica) but for the characters and the relationship aspect - well, maybe except Miranda and Jacob romances (although Miranda is a very interesting character, but the romance plot in ME2 is more focused on titillation and she only gets true character development and romance in the 3rd game and Citadel DLC, which is a real shame IMO).

Totally agree with him about the Heavy Rain sex scene / romance though, because if there ever was a sexually harrassed, irrelevant, objectified and just generally awfully written major female character / love interest, Madison Page is her name.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 21 octobre 2013 - 07:31 .

[Allan Schumacher]

As someone that personally isn't too invested in romances, there are points that I can agree with. In general I think the idea that a romance "concluding" with sex can be problematic. I also don't think that sex is a requirement for an interesting romance (I'm looking at you, Planescape Torment).

By the same token though, I don't think it's fair to say it has nothing to do with the story, because for an RPG the story is more than just the critpath in my opinion. If it has nothing to do with the player's story, then I'd wager that the player wouldn't be picking that content. Why would a player go down a path that they felt was irrelevant to their own story?

As such, at least I think for our games, it's relevant to the story because the player makes it relevant to the story. In a sequence such as Heavy Rain's which is a more structured narrative, the concern about "it happens for no good reason" may be more applicable, though I haven't played the game so I don't know the context of the scene.


Just as a preemptive note, please be respectful towards ALL people, regardless of their preferences to romance content being in games. Simply because my interest in romance is neutral doesn't mean that those that do/don't care for it are bad people. Thanks!

[someguy1231]

I've had my disagreements with Jim Sterling before, but he's on 100% on the mark with this video. I've been saying this about the romances in Bioware games for years.

[TheDon81]

LOL! I came here to post the link too.

Thank God for Jim Sterling.

[MakutaDax]

eluvianix wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I hate this guy within 5 seconds of seeing him for the first time.

I could not make it through the entire video.

I'll admit I stopped watching around the time he said the sex scenes didn't add anything to the story and therefore shouldn't be included and...that they were automatically souless, purposeless fanservice. Yes, I'm paraphrasing, but that's essentially his entire point.

Admittedly, this is how a number of Bioware fans feel, but certainly not all and not me. I do believe that the romance scenes, as I don't think any of them can really be considered true sex scenes, have usually managed to add to the believability and, usually, the depth of the romance. I don't think Bioware's ever just thrown them in for the sake of having them, but that's just how I feel about it.

Also, I'm not one for attacking someone's... style, but good grief. I had a hard time watching the video as long as I did. That guy... lolz

EDIT: I just want to point out that I'm not defending every game romance out there. I know that a lot of games have gratuitous sex scenes and "romances" just for the sake of justifying those scenes. I simply feel that Bioware generally does a much better job of handling romance and that includes the use of these romance scenes to further the romance itself.

Modifié par MakutaDax, 21 octobre 2013 - 07:51 .

[Quill74Pen]

*shrug* Jim Sterling makes some valid points — but, then again, so does just about everyone else when it comes to romance in video games.

[Ryzaki]

I agree I really don't see the point in sex scenes. They might as well be FTB in my opinion.

The romances on the other hand are enjoyable and I'd enjoy the game less without them. The sex scenes could vanish and I wouldn't give a damn though.

[Estelindis]

I like most of Jim's videos and think he usually makes good points, but he really missed the mark here. Sex as part of a romantic arc in Dragon Age has almost never been when he claims and has very often been the exact opposite. I posted as much in the dedicated thread.

[Cainhurst Crow]

JediGuy wrote...

Kaiser Arian wrote...

I agree with David, though I never opened the link!

So you hate someone without even knowing his name or seeing his face? Makes sense.

That's the entire reason people get into fights on this forum dude.

[Fredward]

What an odd juxtaposition in the title. Though I suppose both involve eating.