5 réponses à ce sujet

[JediGuy]

I'm just gonna leave this here.


http://www.escapistm...tm_campaign=all


Thoughts?

Modifié par JediGuy, 21 octobre 2013 - 06:30 .

[Allan Schumacher]

As someone that personally isn't too invested in romances, there are points that I can agree with. In general I think the idea that a romance "concluding" with sex can be problematic. I also don't think that sex is a requirement for an interesting romance (I'm looking at you, Planescape Torment).

By the same token though, I don't think it's fair to say it has nothing to do with the story, because for an RPG the story is more than just the critpath in my opinion. If it has nothing to do with the player's story, then I'd wager that the player wouldn't be picking that content. Why would a player go down a path that they felt was irrelevant to their own story?

As such, at least I think for our games, it's relevant to the story because the player makes it relevant to the story. In a sequence such as Heavy Rain's which is a more structured narrative, the concern about "it happens for no good reason" may be more applicable, though I haven't played the game so I don't know the context of the scene.


Just as a preemptive note, please be respectful towards ALL people, regardless of their preferences to romance content being in games. Simply because my interest in romance is neutral doesn't mean that those that do/don't care for it are bad people. Thanks!

[Allan Schumacher]

Ad hominems against Jim Sterling for the means by which he wishes to present will not be tolerated.

[Allan Schumacher]

JediGuy wrote...

This is a very good point. But what about sex scenes and how they relate to character evolution? Whereas Merril having sex with Hawke is somewhat important to her development as a character (since she was a virgin and whatnot), Isabella's scene doesn't do much to forward her arc, same with Morrigan's. More importantly, does every bit of the romance interactions need to further a character's arc?

A couple of things.  I disagree that Isabela's scene didn't advance her character.  Rather, it set the stage for her conversation immediately afterward.  It may (or may not) push it as far as a different romance.


As for the question, it can be taken a bit more liberally.  Should a scene exist that doesn't do more to depict the character?  This doesn't mean that scenes need to be super moving and deep.  If there's a scene of a character just sitting and looking at a butterfly, there are still things that can be conferred about that character from that scene.

When creating a scene, I think it's fair to discuss the motivations behind why a scene is created.  If a scene is created that doesn't meaningfully convey anything, should it have been created?

[Allan Schumacher]

Accepting that argument opens the door to pretty much anyone complaining any element they don't like supposedly accomplishes nothing. I've already plenty of times on the ME forums with people proclaiming any and every squadmate they don't like 'accomplishes nothing' and should hence be scrapped. What does a character 'accomplish'? What does a line a dialogue 'accomplish'? What does a gesture or touch 'accomplish'? And one of the most common ones, what does a character being attractive 'accomplish'?

People are going to do this regardless. And if they want to discuss it, all the power to them. I see nothing invalid with looking at things that way.

Especially within the context of what a scene is trying to convey. It's important to note, however, that while someone may not feel that a scene accomplishes anything, doesn't mean that it doesn't. Which is part of the fun of discussing narratives.

Where I get upset and toss my robe and moderator hat is when people get disrespectful about it.

Fenris and Isabelas culminations give more insight into their character(s) and Anders and/or Merrill gets to settle into a partnership with Hawke permanently.

It's been a long time, but I think I'd be inclined to agree with this.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm not sure i get exactly what same things you mean.

I think just the idea that those character arcs have the player learn more about those characters as a consequence of pursuing the relationship and the sex that happened within.

You could probably also argue that the sex wasn't required, though I think it'd require changing more to the romance to still convey the relationship and it's an appropriate catalyst.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 21 octobre 2013 - 11:09 .