144 réponses à ce sujet

[DatOneFanboy]

EntropicAngel wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

What i have a problem with is the Fade to the Black, Sex scenes are optional for me, just a kiss before the Finale is enough, But if your going to put a sex scene dont put a goddamn Fast Forward time Fade in black Rave disco sht, That breaks the immersion

The whole idea of the fade to black is that they AREN'T putting in a sex scene. The scene itself has no purpose within the game. But the fade to black, the conversation that precedes it, even the conversation after it, DOES have purpose within the game--so the fade to black has purpose.

Its unrealistic, its breaks the immersion of realism,  It doesnt feel like anything happened and it doesnt require a Conversation , The conversation may happen next morning. The player itself is suppose to give the scene a purpose and not the coded event that happens with it . 

[badboy64]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

What i have a problem with is the Fade to the Black, Sex scenes are optional for me, just a kiss before the Finale is enough, But if your going to put a sex scene dont put a goddamn Fast Forward time Fade in black Rave disco sht, That breaks the immersion

The whole idea of the fade to black is that they AREN'T putting in a sex scene. The scene itself has no purpose within the game. But the fade to black, the conversation that precedes it, even the conversation after it, DOES have purpose within the game--so the fade to black has purpose.

Its unrealistic, its breaks the immersion of realism,  It doesnt feel like anything happened and it doesnt require a Conversation , The conversation may happen next morning. The player itself is suppose to give the scene a purpose and not the coded event that happens with it . 

I completely agree with you.

[Wulfram]

How long is this cutscene supposed to last if you don't have any fade to black? I mean, it seems like it would rather bring the game to a screeching halt.

Unless the PC was a rather disappointing lover, I guess.

Modifié par Wulfram, 22 octobre 2013 - 05:05 .

[lady_v23]

LOL this guys is awesome

[Zatche]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

What i have a problem with is the Fade to the Black, Sex scenes are optional for me, just a kiss before the Finale is enough, But if your going to put a sex scene dont put a goddamn Fast Forward time Fade in black Rave disco sht, That breaks the immersion

The whole idea of the fade to black is that they AREN'T putting in a sex scene. The scene itself has no purpose within the game. But the fade to black, the conversation that precedes it, even the conversation after it, DOES have purpose within the game--so the fade to black has purpose.

Its unrealistic, its breaks the immersion of realism,  It doesnt feel like anything happened and it doesnt require a Conversation , The conversation may happen next morning. The player itself is suppose to give the scene a purpose and not the coded event that happens with it . 

Leaps in time are neither realistic nor unrealistic. They are devices to save time and skip things that don't need to be  shown. They happen whether or not they show 15 seconds of sex.

[DatOneFanboy]

Zatche wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

What i have a problem with is the Fade to the Black, Sex scenes are optional for me, just a kiss before the Finale is enough, But if your going to put a sex scene dont put a goddamn Fast Forward time Fade in black Rave disco sht, That breaks the immersion

The whole idea of the fade to black is that they AREN'T putting in a sex scene. The scene itself has no purpose within the game. But the fade to black, the conversation that precedes it, even the conversation after it, DOES have purpose within the game--so the fade to black has purpose.

Its unrealistic, its breaks the immersion of realism,  It doesnt feel like anything happened and it doesnt require a Conversation , The conversation may happen next morning. The player itself is suppose to give the scene a purpose and not the coded event that happens with it . 

Leaps in time are neither realistic nor unrealistic. They are devices to save time and skip things that don't need to be  shown. They happen whether or not they show 15 seconds of sex.

Lets say your fighting a Dragon, You finally manage to Get it to Low health, U get a cutscene of you finishing the dragon, And suddenly a Fade to black comes in when your running at the dragon, and it resumes with the dragon dead on the ground and you're covered in blood. It breaks the immersion.

[Iakus]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

Its unrealistic, its breaks the immersion of realism,  It doesnt feel like anything happened and it doesnt require a Conversation , The conversation may happen next morning. The player itself is suppose to give the scene a purpose and not the coded event that happens with it . 

The advantage with fade-to-black is you can fill in what happened with whatever you like.  Maybe it was just a make-out session and that was the end of it.  CLothes stayed on and feet stayed onteh floor.  Maybe the two got into some really kinky stuff involving a mage's staff, a mabari, and pickle juice.  Or something in-between. 

As far as I'm concerned, everyone wins.  The player gets whatever scene they can imagine.  The devs save zots that can be used elsewhere.  And the romance still progresses.

[DatOneFanboy]

iakus wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

Its unrealistic, its breaks the immersion of realism,  It doesnt feel like anything happened and it doesnt require a Conversation , The conversation may happen next morning. The player itself is suppose to give the scene a purpose and not the coded event that happens with it . 

The advantage with fade-to-black is you can fill in what happened with whatever you like.  Maybe it was just a make-out session and that was the end of it.  CLothes stayed on and feet stayed onteh floor.  Maybe the two got into some really kinky stuff involving a mage's staff, a mabari, and pickle juice.  Or something in-between. 

As far as I'm concerned, everyone wins.  The player gets whatever scene they can imagine.  The devs save zots that can be used elsewhere.  And the romance still progresses.

Video game's are evolving, There are much more they can give than that, We are trying to reach the Movie Level in story telling,

[Knight of Dane]

Hopefully games will surpass movies at some point. THey can handle the same length books can after all.

[JoltDealer]

Xilizhra wrote...

I've seen the video. One thing I will agree with him on, Viewing sex as "The Culmination of spending a lot of time with a character and getting to know them" doesn't help - that doesn't strike me as a relationship, that's slowly talking your way into someone's pants(or Plate Mail Leggings). One thing I've always voiced(and will continue to) is that until more complications(the kind that come in an actual, real-life relationship) arrive, romances will feel more akin to a Happily Ever After Disney-Esque Love-athon. One interview that comes immediately to mind is Chris Avellone's Interview on Romances that appeared in Off-Topic long ago. The quote is a bit harsh, but it drives the point home.

I personally don't quite agree, in that I dislike romantic drama and prefer to have romance as a sort of safe haven in terms of story; while I can sort of see your point, don't cut out a romance ending well just because of aversion to Disney or whatever. They still can do so and still be good stories.

Also, Avellone's attitude is horrible and I want no part of him.

I don't think the Disney part was necessary, but he has a point.  Anyone who has ever been in a relationship will tell you that love isn't the result of "talk to this person x amount of times."  Jim Sterling may come off as a pompous bastard, but that was he one point I agreed with.  Romance is portrayed in an unrealistic way in games.  If I followed Bioware's idea of a romance in real life, it would look something like this:

Step 1:  Approach person I want to romance and engage in conversation
Step 2:  Completely disregard personal views and agree with everything my romantic interest says
Step 3:  If step two fails, buy romantic interest gifts or move on to a different person entirely
Step 4:  Take romantic interest to bed and do not speak of relationship until life or death situation occurs

Does anyone else see the problem here?  If you don't, then chances are you've never been in a real relaionship.

[Zatche]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

Zatche wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

What i have a problem with is the Fade to the Black, Sex scenes are optional for me, just a kiss before the Finale is enough, But if your going to put a sex scene dont put a goddamn Fast Forward time Fade in black Rave disco sht, That breaks the immersion

The whole idea of the fade to black is that they AREN'T putting in a sex scene. The scene itself has no purpose within the game. But the fade to black, the conversation that precedes it, even the conversation after it, DOES have purpose within the game--so the fade to black has purpose.

Its unrealistic, its breaks the immersion of realism,  It doesnt feel like anything happened and it doesnt require a Conversation , The conversation may happen next morning. The player itself is suppose to give the scene a purpose and not the coded event that happens with it . 

Leaps in time are neither realistic nor unrealistic. They are devices to save time and skip things that don't need to be  shown. They happen whether or not they show 15 seconds of sex.

Lets say your fighting a Dragon, You finally manage to Get it to Low health, U get a cutscene of you finishing the dragon, And suddenly a Fade to black comes in when your running at the dragon, and it resumes with the dragon dead on the ground and you're covered in blood. It breaks the immersion.

Apples and oranges. If, however, finishing off the dragon takes more than 5 min of continuous stabbing, I would certainly hope they skip most of it.

Modifié par Zatche, 22 octobre 2013 - 06:31 .

[jillabender]

Pseudocognition wrote...

the implication that any attempt at depth/meaning (ambiguous though those goals may be) that he deems a failure is instantly gratuity on par with Dead or Alive is kind of... weird, from the guy who touts himself as a beacon of nuance and rationality. I really like Jim but this week he went for the most visible target instead of the most relevant to his point, I think. And it's not like he doesn't have a point, just... hrm.

I think that's very well put - that was pretty much my reaction as well. As you said, he had some thought-provoking points, but I don't think that the way he went about making them was fair to the Dragon Age series.

As you pointed out, there needs to be a distinction between "I don't believe this scene succeeded in conveying meaning" and "This scene clearly doesn't represent an attempt at anything meaningful," and I believe he unfairly jumped to the latter conclusion in this case. I'm still sorting out my thoughts about it.

Modifié par jillabender, 22 octobre 2013 - 07:16 .

[Iakus]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

Video game's are evolving, There are much more they can give than that, We are trying to reach the Movie Level in story telling,

I think aspiring to reach Movie Level is doing rpgs a disservice.  Games can be so much more than that.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

I have always liked the romances in Bioware games and it's a major part of why I play them.

Sure some of the sex scenes are awkward and could be improved, but I don't see a problem with their placement.

Hopefully Bioware continues to keep the romances the way they are and don't change them due to a loud minority.

BTW, I like how this guy goes on about topics such as friend zones/nice guys and the the way women are portrayed, yet he doesn't even get into the fact that the games have romance options for female players.

Alistar, Zevran, Garrus, Kaiden, Jacob (lol), Thane, Fenris, Anders, Sebastian, etc are all fan favorites, and guess what? They get romanced the same way as female characters do!

Yet nothing about stimulation, titillation, or immaturity is brought up about it. Nothing about "buying" sex even comes up in regards to the male characters.

It's white knighting to the fullest, and it's all so very transparent.

Modifié par Ser Pounce A Lot , 22 octobre 2013 - 06:44 .

[DatOneFanboy]

iakus wrote...

DatOneFanboy wrote...

Video game's are evolving, There are much more they can give than that, We are trying to reach the Movie Level in story telling,

I think aspiring to reach Movie Level is doing rpgs a disservice.  Games can be so much more than that.

m8 u foken give me cancer ye , i swer on me mums

[Sylvius the Mad]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

Video game's are evolving, There are much more they can give than that, We are trying to reach the Movie Level in story telling,

Movie level would be a significant step backward for roleplaying games, I think.  RPGs allow the creation of better and deeper stories than those we see in movies, and have done so for decades.

[Knight of Dane]

The depth you can put into one hour and twenty minutes of movie time is fairly limited, which is why I've never really enjoyed movies.

That's also why it's seen more these days that successful movies becomes a series like the Marvel series into Avengers and the Hobbit and last Harry Potter movies be spit up.
Too much goodness to cut off and too much to appreciate in a single sitting.

Games also allows you to wield the story and not just reread it.

[Han Shot First]

My problem with the fade-to-black in video games is that it tends to be jarring. The characters kiss, its implied that they are going to have sex, the screen fades to back and then fades back in with one or both characters just standing around fully clothed like nothing happened.

That isn't to say that a fade-to-black can't be used, just that in video games it tends to be used very poorly. If a fade-to-black is going to be used for a sex scene I think it is better to have it play out like it would in some movies. The screen fades to black and then you get an 'Elsewhere in the world' cutscene with something relevant to the plot going on. For example had it been used in DA:O, it would have faded-to-black and then you'd get the cutscene of Loghain employing Zevran to assassinate the Warden. You then have it fade back into the Warden and post-coital dialogue with Morrigan, Leliana, or Alistair.

To be clear, I'm not advocating a fade-to-black. But if devs were to use it, I would hope they would use it in a more cinematic fashion.

[Wulfram]

Crimson Sound wrote...

I don't think the Disney part was necessary, but he has a point.  Anyone who has ever been in a relationship will tell you that love isn't the result of "talk to this person x amount of times."

I think most people talk to the other person in a relationship a number of times.  Really, this seems a particularly odd line of criticism - are we saying that realistic relationships consist of people silently taking off their clothes in front of strangers and hoping they'll reciprocate or what?

Jim Sterling may come off as a pompous bastard, but that was he one point I agreed with.  Romance is portrayed in an unrealistic way in games.  If I followed Bioware's idea of a romance in real life, it would look something like this:

Step 1:  Approach person I want to romance and engage in conversation
Step 2:  Completely disregard personal views and agree with everything my romantic interest says
Step 3:  If step two fails, buy romantic interest gifts or move on to a different person entirely
Step 4:  Take romantic interest to bed and do not speak of relationship until life or death situation occurs

Does anyone else see the problem here?  If you don't, then chances are you've never been in a real relaionship.

Well, it's not a very accurate reflection of Bioware romances, either.  What with DA romances not ending after sex (except Leliana), and ME romances not having the approval system and thus making step 2 and 3 irrelevant.

[Knight of Dane]

Leliana's romance also only ends by the sex if you choke all conversation out of her before making advances. There's also special gift scenes and by-the-gate scene.

[DarthLaxian]

David7204 wrote...

I hate this guy within 5 seconds of seeing him for the first time.

agreed - he plays games that have romance scenes and then mocks that...i mean he could just not do the romance content...sorry, but i think this video a load of CRAP (!)

he has only one good point:

i agree that developers are afraid of really depicting sex realistically (some scenes are really awkward - like DA:O with the underware...or fade to blacks....sorry, but it's adult games and that means (at least for me) that long detailed scenes are a possibility (and should happen every once in a while and IMHO there should not be only one scene in the entire game, but more of them....i mean a game like DA2 that depicts about a decade and is for adults and the character is only having sex ONCE in the entire game....LAME! - i would take the end-game aspect of the scenes away, too if there were more of them and it would show that you and the companion have a real relationship (as in real relationships you don't have sex only once, do you?))

note: look at "GAME OF THRONES" - a TV-Show that is not afraid of depicting sex (it is happening quite frequently, too)....even more in the books, so that's what DA should be like IMHO (at least if they want to keep the romance stuff interesting and really add to the games)

greetings LAX

[Han Shot First]

I like Game of Thrones, but lets be honest for second. The sex scenes aren't mature. Mostly they are just there to titillate, in the tried-and-true HBO formula. They'll have a character give a monologue while some prostitute (played by a pornstar) with her bare arse up in the air, gives him a ******. And the sex scene is there for no other reason than just because the filmmakers could get away it, as the monologue being delivered could just as well be delivered without the sex. It is pretty much the definition of gratuitous.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 22 octobre 2013 - 10:56 .

[Mathias]

In an industry that barely takes risks anymore, I admire Bioware for having the balls to put sex scenes in their games. I can't see a good reason why they'd start removing them. We know there's an audience for them and that "The Sex Scenes" are a popular thing in Bioware games. Just look up these scenes on youtube and the amount of views/likes they get.