810 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Qistina wrote...

All these "Mages are dangerous" are Chantry propaganda, the one who believe that have fallen to the propaganda. And that show there is no middle ground, no compromise, because it is only one sided, it have been decided by the ANDRASTERIAN fanatics

No middle ground, no compromise

Is that look on main quests in first game my friend

and for more much more look on second game

Most problem ends on mage fault. 

But well chantry isn't much better so in my pt both going down.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:07 .

[Boycott Bioware]

The first game started with...

"The Chantry teach us that....." - Duncan

There it already being bias

[TheKomandorShepard]

Qistina wrote...

The first game started with...

"The Chantry teach us that....." - Duncan

There it already being bias

On duncan side perhaps but then he dies and we see on our own and what we have...

First connor and jowan destroing castle and village why because they are mages we have deal with that problem.
Second Zathrian and his curse why we have werewolves because mage
Third Tower of mages well here i don't have even speak i hope.
Fourth blight what was probably caused by mages at least it wouldn't happened without mages.

All this disasters caused by mages and i skip side quests.
 

[BlueMagitek]

The Chantry is one of the middle grounds presented to us, between the Qunari and Tevinter, which both go to one side or another.

The only other group we have a decent amount of information on are the Dalish, who are closer to Tevinter than the Chantry. The other group we've really seen was the Andraste Cultists, who were in between the Chantry and the Dalish, but we don't really know much about their system.

[Boycott Bioware]

First connor and jowan destroing castle and village why because they are mages we have deal with that problem.

i. Isolde don't want to send Connor to the Circle because her son will lost his title and everything as the Arl son, she don't want to be separated with his son, and she ashamed because she's RELIGIOUS
ii. Isolde hired an apostate that being suggested by LOGHAIN

Above reasons that lead to Redcliffe problem, in which driven from the existence of the Circle and Chantry propaganda

Second Zathrian and his curse why we have werewolves because mage

Zathrian curse the human bandits that rape the Elf girl, those bandits are not just "bandits" i suspect but that is another matter, Zathrian just living with his vengeance, he cannot forgive and he cannot forget...but the Warden can make him realize his mistake and willingly die to end the curse. Even so, humans are still the same

Third Tower of mages well here i don't have even speak i hope.

The problem don't exist if the tower don't exist

Fourth blight what was probably caused by mages at least it wouldn't happened without mages.

Then those Mages should be hold responsible, not all Mages

All this disasters caused by mages and i skip side quests.

The disasters are the effect of the disease caused by the system itself that run by the Chantry

[errant_knight]

If they don't find compromise, there will be no end to the conflict. It's all about every group feeling safe and when we talk about factions, we tend to forget the common people who are the vast majority. They fear mages and the chantry is their protection from that fear. If they don't find a compromise, in which the templars feel that they're able to protect the common people and mages feel a measure of security/freedom, they're all going to be easy pickings, squashed between Tevinter and the Qunari as they weaken themselves with endless war.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 octobre 2013 - 06:58 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

[cjones91]

FreshIstay wrote...

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

It's wrong to punish the group for the actions of a few.Besides mundanes have done far more damage to society by themselves.

[errant_knight]

The concept of middle ground is lost here, isn't it? Lol. I fear for my beloved Ferelden.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 octobre 2013 - 07:13 .

[Boycott Bioware]

The first thing is education, making peoples not fear Mages anymore and makes Mages don't feel indifferent, education that is not bias, that don't have sentiment.

Mages are Mages, like or hate them they will always exist the same existence as everyone else. They can be of any race, religion, or even atheist Mage if there is any, they have the right to exist and not being discriminated or abuse in anyway as well as non-Mages

There should be

i. International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
ii. International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
iii. Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
iv. Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Mages
v. United Nations Convention Against Torture, Mage Imprisonment and Harrowing
vi. Convention on the Rights of the Mage Child
vii. Convention on the Rights of Persons with Magical Powers
viii. International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Mages Workers and Members of their Families

[errant_knight]

Good luck on international treaties. This is Thedas. Orlais, Ferelden and Kirkwall, maybe, but....

I see nothing in your post to indicate how you'd protect people and make them confident of their safety. Middle ground requires compromise.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Qistina wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Which doesn't change the fact that they are extreemly dangerous.
You cannot ignore thair dangerous nature because they are sentient.

I see them as human, Elf, Qunari and whatever races they are...I believe their conscience, i believe they have the same conscience as me. As i can become crazy or bad and harm anything by any means, so they can harm anything by their power, but do we want to harm anything with no reason?

You and Andrasterians see them as "pests"

No.
I see then as *extreemly* dangerous poeple.
Because that is what they are.
And there is a good reason for segragating them up.
Them having the same consience as everyone else doesn't make them any less dangerous. It actually changes nothing.

[AlexanderCousland]

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

It's wrong to punish the group for the actions of a few.Besides mundanes have done far more damage to society by themselves.

I dont subscribe to the idea that mundane caused "far more damage to society" and I really dont care about "The Group". I care about blowing up churches with innocent people, blood sacrifices for no legitimate reason, Abomination' s, and Veil tears that let demons into a world full of Mage's who are more susceptible to their powers. So if your a mage, Im certainly not sympathetic to your plight, I  really dont care about "born this way" or the fact they aren't treated the same . I simply want Magic to stay checked and controlled for the sake of peace. 

Modifié par FreshIstay, 26 octobre 2013 - 07:39 .

[Boycott Bioware]

errant_knight wrote...
I see nothing in your post to indicate how you'd protect people and make them confident of their safety.

i. There is nothing to be feared, that is the first thing to educate the people
ii. Mages and Non-Mages together protect the people as they are the people
iii. Mages and Non-Mages criminals will be judged accordingly and punished accordingly as according to the peoples law
iv. No one is guilty unless proven, everyone is protected by right and will not be discriminated in any way
v. Abominations will be handled by professionals from both Mages and Non-Mages

[cjones91]

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

It's wrong to punish the group for the actions of a few.Besides mundanes have done far more damage to society by themselves.

I dont subscribe to the idea that mundane caused "far more damage to society" and I really dont care about "The Group". I care about blowing up churches with innocent people, blood sacrifices for no legitimate reason, Abomination' s, and Veil tears that let demons into a world full of Mage's who are more susceptible to their powers. So if your a mage, Im certainly not sympathetic to your plight, I  really dont care about "born this way" or the fact they aren't treated the same . I simply want Magic to stay checked and controlled for the sake of peace. 

And you don't think mundanes don't have the power to blow churches or cause the Veil to tear?You're treating all mages the same when they are not and that is a faulty point of view.Mundanes can destroy **** with their petty wars and the Veil was already torn in the Brecillian Forest because of it.

[AlexanderCousland]

Qistina wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
I see nothing in your post to indicate how you'd protect people and make them confident of their safety.

i. There is nothing to be feared, that is the first thing to educate the people
ii. Mages and Non-Mages together protect the people as they are the people
iii. Mages and Non-Mages criminals will be judged accordingly and punished accordingly as according to the peoples law
iv. No one is guilty unless proven, everyone is protected by right and will not be discriminated in any way
v. Abominations will be handled by professionals from both Mages and Non-Mages

Umm. The problem is Rule 1 isnt true.

[CroGamer002]

International committees in medieval setting?

That's way too far ahead for such time.


And this is major problem with your arguments, Qistina. You're putting them into real life present day standards, instead of medieval fantasy.

[errant_knight]

Yep, any solution has to deal with Thedas as it is and can't cram every social ill into a compromise that might be a solution to the hostilities. Non-mages fear mages and with some good reason. Even if you discount 90% of the appearances of bloodmages and abominations as gameplay mechanics, that still represents a clear and present danger. That has to be addressed. Likewise, the mages have to be protected from the abuses that the less scrupulous members of the Chantry/templars have subjected them to. There's prob a way to find a solution to both those needs, but it won't be a full win for either faction and has to take place withing the realities of the world as it is.

[AlexanderCousland]

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

It's wrong to punish the group for the actions of a few.Besides mundanes have done far more damage to society by themselves.

I dont subscribe to the idea that mundane caused "far more damage to society" and I really dont care about "The Group". I care about blowing up churches with innocent people, blood sacrifices for no legitimate reason, Abomination' s, and Veil tears that let demons into a world full of Mage's who are more susceptible to their powers. So if your a mage, Im certainly not sympathetic to your plight, I  really dont care about "born this way" or the fact they aren't treated the same . I simply want Magic to stay checked and controlled for the sake of peace. 

And you don't think mundanes don't have the power to blow churches or cause the Veil to tear?You're treating all mages the same when they are not and that is a faulty point of view.Mundanes can destroy **** with their petty wars and the Veil was already torn in the Brecillian Forest because of it.

Do mundane' s blow up churches? No. How do you deduce that Mundane's specifically caused what happend in the brecillian forest? That was the Tevinter Imperium. Mage's have Magic, and that in itself is the problem. They are a fundamental threat just because they exist. 

[cjones91]

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

It's wrong to punish the group for the actions of a few.Besides mundanes have done far more damage to society by themselves.

I dont subscribe to the idea that mundane caused "far more damage to society" and I really dont care about "The Group". I care about blowing up churches with innocent people, blood sacrifices for no legitimate reason, Abomination' s, and Veil tears that let demons into a world full of Mage's who are more susceptible to their powers. So if your a mage, Im certainly not sympathetic to your plight, I  really dont care about "born this way" or the fact they aren't treated the same . I simply want Magic to stay checked and controlled for the sake of peace. 

And you don't think mundanes don't have the power to blow churches or cause the Veil to tear?You're treating all mages the same when they are not and that is a faulty point of view.Mundanes can destroy **** with their petty wars and the Veil was already torn in the Brecillian Forest because of it.

Do mundane' s blow up churches? No. How do you deduce that Mundane's specifically caused what happend in the brecillian forest? That was the Tevinter Imperium. Mage's have Magic, and that in itself is the problem. They are a fundamental threat just because they exist. 

How does one man blowing up a church mean all mages bad?The Veil was torn in the forest because of countless wars so Tevinter wasn't the only one responsible.As for your last point.....do I need to remind you that everyone is a fundamental threat?How many people were killed in Fereldan because of the squabling of the mundane nobles?

[Boycott Bioware]

Mesina2 wrote...
And this is major problem with your arguments, Qistina. You're putting them into real life present day standards, instead of medieval fantasy.

Thedas isn't medieval, and not "medieval fantasy" either. It is a "modern world with sword and magic."

The issue in the game isn't medieval, but modern issues

[AlexanderCousland]

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

It's wrong to punish the group for the actions of a few.Besides mundanes have done far more damage to society by themselves.

I dont subscribe to the idea that mundane caused "far more damage to society" and I really dont care about "The Group". I care about blowing up churches with innocent people, blood sacrifices for no legitimate reason, Abomination' s, and Veil tears that let demons into a world full of Mage's who are more susceptible to their powers. So if your a mage, Im certainly not sympathetic to your plight, I  really dont care about "born this way" or the fact they aren't treated the same . I simply want Magic to stay checked and controlled for the sake of peace. 

And you don't think mundanes don't have the power to blow churches or cause the Veil to tear?You're treating all mages the same when they are not and that is a faulty point of view.Mundanes can destroy **** with their petty wars and the Veil was already torn in the Brecillian Forest because of it.

Do mundane' s blow up churches? No. How do you deduce that Mundane's specifically caused what happend in the brecillian forest? That was the Tevinter Imperium. Mage's have Magic, and that in itself is the problem. They are a fundamental threat just because they exist. 

How does one man blowing up a church mean all mages bad?The Veil was torn in the forest because of countless wars so Tevinter wasn't the only one responsible.As for your last point.....do I need to remind you that everyone is a fundamental threat?How many people were killed in Fereldan because of the squabling of the mundane nobles?

I dont know, I cant think of any normal people who at any given moment can turn into a creature capable of destroying a whole city because they had a bad dream. I cant think of any normal people who can control my thoughts either.

[cjones91]

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Blame the Chantry because individual Mages decide to do extreme things ? No.
Mage's need pay the consequences for the damage they've caused in society.

It's wrong to punish the group for the actions of a few.Besides mundanes have done far more damage to society by themselves.

I dont subscribe to the idea that mundane caused "far more damage to society" and I really dont care about "The Group". I care about blowing up churches with innocent people, blood sacrifices for no legitimate reason, Abomination' s, and Veil tears that let demons into a world full of Mage's who are more susceptible to their powers. So if your a mage, Im certainly not sympathetic to your plight, I  really dont care about "born this way" or the fact they aren't treated the same . I simply want Magic to stay checked and controlled for the sake of peace. 

And you don't think mundanes don't have the power to blow churches or cause the Veil to tear?You're treating all mages the same when they are not and that is a faulty point of view.Mundanes can destroy **** with their petty wars and the Veil was already torn in the Brecillian Forest because of it.

Do mundane' s blow up churches? No. How do you deduce that Mundane's specifically caused what happend in the brecillian forest? That was the Tevinter Imperium. Mage's have Magic, and that in itself is the problem. They are a fundamental threat just because they exist. 

How does one man blowing up a church mean all mages bad?The Veil was torn in the forest because of countless wars so Tevinter wasn't the only one responsible.As for your last point.....do I need to remind you that everyone is a fundamental threat?How many people were killed in Fereldan because of the squabling of the mundane nobles?

I dont know, I cant think of any normal people who at any given moment can turn into a creature capable of destroying a whole city because they had a bad dream. I cant think of any normal people who can control my thoughts either.

Again this is based on the assumption that all mages are evil power hungry monsters who would be willing to do such a thing.Painting them all with the same brush would be like claiming mundanes are racist,raping,opression loving hyprocrites based on what they did to the elves.

[Boycott Bioware]

Fenryiel didn't destroy any city as a possessed Dreamer who is supposed to be "unstoppable".....

[cjones91]

Qistina wrote...

Fenryiel didn't destroy any city as a possessed Dreamer who is supposed to be "unstoppable".....

And not all mages become abominations whenever they feel like it either.