810 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

schalafi wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

schalafi wrote...

What I don't understand is who set the Templars up as watchdogs for the Mages in the first place? Why wouldn't the Mages have the head of the circle be the watchdog keeping an eye out for any Mages who might be going astray, instead of having Templars monitoring them?

As for the Templars, I have never really seen any need for them other than watching the mages. Do we really need Templars at all?

Two words.

Tevinter Imperium.

Could you elaborate a bit? I don't get what you're implying by that.

In Tevinter Imperium, mages watch over themselves and no Templar's exists there.

And country is pretty much ruled by slave owning blood mages very prone to demonic possessions and human/elvish sacrifices.

And no good mage can make any change for good, without owning slaves and using blood magic.
And non-mages are at best 2nd class citizens.

[Hellion Rex]

Mesina2 wrote...

schalafi wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

schalafi wrote...

What I don't understand is who set the Templars up as watchdogs for the Mages in the first place? Why wouldn't the Mages have the head of the circle be the watchdog keeping an eye out for any Mages who might be going astray, instead of having Templars monitoring them?

As for the Templars, I have never really seen any need for them other than watching the mages. Do we really need Templars at all?

Two words.

Tevinter Imperium.

Could you elaborate a bit? I don't get what you're implying by that.

In Tevinter Imperium, mages watch over themselves and no Templar's exists there.

And country is pretty much ruled by slave owning blood mages very prone to demonic possessions and human/elvish sacrifices.

And no good mage can make any change for good, without owning slaves and using blood magic.
And non-mages are at best 2nd class citizens.

Templars actually do exist over there. However, considering the Black Divine is a mage, the Templars seem to pretty much be used at the whims of the magisters, and are political weapons to bring down enemies.

[CroGamer002]

^Ah, my mistake.

[Lazy Jer]

Qistina wrote...

Fine...alright, let say 1/3 of children born EVERYDAY are Mages in all country/continent, count yourself how many Mages are there in the whole Thedas

If Chantry propaganda is true, 1/3 of the population who born 20 years ago are abominations in each country/continents in the whole Thedas

How many Templars are there, how many Chantry money to hire a Templar? A Templar officer may serve 40 years or so, Even government officers are recruited only in certain time making many peoples jobless because of economy...now think...children mage who born 20,19,18,17 years ago now have come to their power, the Templar officers are the same old Templar officers recruited 20 years ago

Really?  I didn't know Templar recruitment was that bad.  Maybe they need a poster or something "Join the Templars, we have coffee and cookies."  Seriously I think that Templar recruitment isn't that bad.

[CroGamer002]

^I'm pretty sure Templar's outnumber mages, as well.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Qistina wrote...
Mages population is nearly THE SAME amount as non-Mage...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:lol:

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Qistina wrote...
Mages population is nearly THE SAME amount as non-Mage...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:lol:

Amused, are we?

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

1/3 is also completely skewered..... The majority of mages lived in 14 different Circles, each comprising of a few hundred mages each. Lets round up and just say that it is approximately 10.000 mages in the Circles. Then we have to add lets say another 10.000 mages in the form of Apostates (including the Dalish Keepers and Firsts) and Qunari Saarebas, and you have a grand total of 20.000 mages in existance. Now, I hope you can agree on the fact that there aren't only 60.000 living humans, Elves and Qunari on Thedas, so obviously 1/3 is also very very wrong. I'd wager that Thedas might be home to a few tens of millions of people. That makes mages even less common than 1 per 1000. Which is far more realistic given the entire situation.

I would argue that even 1 in a 1000 is way too low man. 1/20 is maybe more accurate.  50/1000 seems to be more realistic.

Granted I didn't factor Tevinter into my calculations. With Tevinter factored in, im willing to say that mages MAY be making up between 1% - 5% of the worlds total population.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

1/3 is also completely skewered..... The majority of mages lived in 14 different Circles, each comprising of a few hundred mages each. Lets round up and just say that it is approximately 10.000 mages in the Circles. Then we have to add lets say another 10.000 mages in the form of Apostates (including the Dalish Keepers and Firsts) and Qunari Saarebas, and you have a grand total of 20.000 mages in existance. Now, I hope you can agree on the fact that there aren't only 60.000 living humans, Elves and Qunari on Thedas, so obviously 1/3 is also very very wrong. I'd wager that Thedas might be home to a few tens of millions of people. That makes mages even less common than 1 per 1000. Which is far more realistic given the entire situation.

I would argue that even 1 in a 1000 is way too low man. 1/20 is maybe more accurate.  50/1000 seems to be more realistic.

Granted I didn't factor Tevinter into my calculations. With Tevinter factored in, im willing to say that mages MAY be making up between 1% - 5% of the worlds total population.

That is certainly more reasonable. 

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

schalafi wrote...

What I don't understand is who set the Templars up as watchdogs for the Mages in the first place? Why wouldn't the Mages have the head of the circle be the watchdog keeping an eye out for any Mages who might be going astray, instead of having Templars monitoring them?

Because mages might not have the best interest of non-mages in mind and thus, can't be trusted to police themselves.

What makes you think that?Mages have family who are non mages as well so why would'nt they have their best interests in mind?

[cjones91]

Lazy Jer wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Fine...alright, let say 1/3 of children born EVERYDAY are Mages in all country/continent, count yourself how many Mages are there in the whole Thedas

If Chantry propaganda is true, 1/3 of the population who born 20 years ago are abominations in each country/continents in the whole Thedas

How many Templars are there, how many Chantry money to hire a Templar? A Templar officer may serve 40 years or so, Even government officers are recruited only in certain time making many peoples jobless because of economy...now think...children mage who born 20,19,18,17 years ago now have come to their power, the Templar officers are the same old Templar officers recruited 20 years ago

Really?  I didn't know Templar recruitment was that bad.  Maybe they need a poster or something "Join the Templars, we have coffee and cookies."  Seriously I think that Templar recruitment isn't that bad.

It's hard to recruit when the Chantry only picks those who are blindly devoted.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Fine...alright, let say 1/3 of children born EVERYDAY are Mages in all country/continent, count yourself how many Mages are there in the whole Thedas

If Chantry propaganda is true, 1/3 of the population who born 20 years ago are abominations in each country/continents in the whole Thedas

How many Templars are there, how many Chantry money to hire a Templar? A Templar officer may serve 40 years or so, Even government officers are recruited only in certain time making many peoples jobless because of economy...now think...children mage who born 20,19,18,17 years ago now have come to their power, the Templar officers are the same old Templar officers recruited 20 years ago

Really?  I didn't know Templar recruitment was that bad.  Maybe they need a poster or something "Join the Templars, we have coffee and cookies."  Seriously I think that Templar recruitment isn't that bad.

It's hard to recruit when the Chantry only picks those who are blindly devoted.

Not necessarily. Just because one follows orders does not mean that they are blindly devoted. Not to say that some aren't capable of such religious fervor. 

[Boycott Bioware]

eluvianix wrote...
I would argue that even 1 in a 1000 is way too low man. 1/20 is maybe more accurate. 50/1000 seems to be more realistic.

Then there should not be any Mage-Templar WAR at all...lol

How many are going fight in a WAR? 100? 200? 300?

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Fine...alright, let say 1/3 of children born EVERYDAY are Mages in all country/continent, count yourself how many Mages are there in the whole Thedas

If Chantry propaganda is true, 1/3 of the population who born 20 years ago are abominations in each country/continents in the whole Thedas

How many Templars are there, how many Chantry money to hire a Templar? A Templar officer may serve 40 years or so, Even government officers are recruited only in certain time making many peoples jobless because of economy...now think...children mage who born 20,19,18,17 years ago now have come to their power, the Templar officers are the same old Templar officers recruited 20 years ago

Really?  I didn't know Templar recruitment was that bad.  Maybe they need a poster or something "Join the Templars, we have coffee and cookies."  Seriously I think that Templar recruitment isn't that bad.

It's hard to recruit when the Chantry only picks those who are blindly devoted.

Not necessarily. Just because one follows orders does not mean that they are blindly devoted. Not to say that some aren't capable of such religious fervor. 

But it is expected from religious members to be devoted to the cause.,most templars are hand picked from the faithful and the Chantry can't have any of them having doubt in what they are doing.

[HiroVoid]

Qistina wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I would argue that even 1 in a 1000 is way too low man. 1/20 is maybe more accurate. 50/1000 seems to be more realistic.

Then there should not be any Mage-Templar WAR at all...lol

How many are going fight in a WAR? 100? 200? 300?

I think you're underestimating Thedas' population if you think every 1/3 people is a mage.  Let's say that the mage population is fairly equivalent to the amount of templars employed.  That would mean mages have a population about equal to that of a highly trained international army.  Nowhere close to the amount of the entire Thedan population.  If it was also every 1/3, magic abilities wouldn't be considered rare.  It'd just be considered a way of life.  As for the mage-templar war, I don't think it's a war like most people are thinking of.  If anything, it'll probably end up being an extended conflict with much more scirmishes than actual battles that'll extend over the course of multiple games.

[Hellion Rex]

Qistina wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I would argue that even 1 in a 1000 is way too low man. 1/20 is maybe more accurate. 50/1000 seems to be more realistic.

Then there should not be any Mage-Templar WAR at all...lol

How many are going fight in a WAR? 100? 200? 300?

It is only per thousand. If there are say 3 million people in Thedas total. There are around 600,000 templars. You could probably say that there around 100,000-200,000 mages.

[Boycott Bioware]

eluvianix wrote...
It is only per thousand. If there are say 3 million people in Thedas total. There are around 600,000 templars. You could probably say that there around 100,000-200,000 mages.

600,000 Templars? Are you kidding me...even medieval Crusaders are not that many...Saladin alone can only gather 200,000

Modifié par Qistina, 27 octobre 2013 - 07:28 .

[CroGamer002]

Qistina wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I would argue that even 1 in a 1000 is way too low man. 1/20 is maybe more accurate. 50/1000 seems to be more realistic.

Then there should not be any Mage-Templar WAR at all...lol

How many are going fight in a WAR? 100? 200? 300?

10,000 of mages are a lot, especially since Templar's who, while outnumber them surely, are cut from the Chantry supplies and financial aid.

Also mages should have a lot of non-mage allies for various reasons. For example, quite a lot of Kirkwall nobles allied along side with mages. Due to mage sympathy and/or against Templar tyranny.

Same will go for Templar's, as they still got some noble support against mages for various reasons. And ofcourse, religious zealot's.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...
What makes you think that?Mages have family who are non mages as well so why would'nt they have their best interests in mind?

Mages and non-mages form two different social groups, this is undeniable. They both have a distinct cultural identity, they obey different laws, they even live separatedelly.
Ultimately, while a mage may care for his/her non-mage family members, this is very distinct from caring about non-mages as a whole. Let's say that a Circle mage had to make a choice that either benefited the Circle or benefited Ferelden. That mage would choose his own closed society over others because it is HIS society and what benefits it also benefits him.
The fact that Anders' parents were non-mages didn't stop him from wishing to start a war hoping it would benefit the people he considered his own.
Of course, the same applies to non-mages as well. Isolde didn't give a fig about the mage's "plight"; she only cared about her own son.

Which is why, ultimately, the people guarding mages should be non-mages because this increases the possiblities of them having the best interests of non-mages at heart.
Which doesn't mean there isn't another side to this coin; if all the Templars care about is the non-mages this can lead to abuse of power. It's a fine line to walk.

[Boycott Bioware]

The 200,000 Saladin army are not all paid army, most of them are volunteers for the sake of "jihad"...meaning the real Saladin army that is government army around 100 000-120 000 men...Saladin is a king of Muslim empire at that time, even a king of an empire cannot support 600,000 soldiers

How rich is the Chantry to support army that large?

Medieval Christian soldiers are from all Christendom, sent by European kings, and some are church military order, even so many European kings going bankrupt because of crusade campaign

600,000 Templars is ridiculous

Modifié par Qistina, 27 octobre 2013 - 07:36 .

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
What makes you think that?Mages have family who are non mages as well so why would'nt they have their best interests in mind?

Mages and non-mages form two different social groups, this is undeniable. They both have a distinct cultural identity, they obey different laws, they even live separatedelly.
Ultimately, while a mage may care for his/her non-mage family members, this is very distinct from caring about non-mages as a whole. Let's say that a Circle mage had to make a choice that either benefited the Circle or benefited Ferelden. That mage would choose his own closed society over others because it is HIS society and what benefits it also benefits him.
The fact that Anders' parents were non-mages didn't stop him from wishing to start a war hoping it would benefit the people he considered his own.
Of course, the same applies to non-mages as well. Isolde didn't give a fig about the mage's "plight"; she only cared about her own son.

Which is why, ultimately, the people guarding mages should be non-mages because this increases the possiblities of them having the best interests of non-mages at heart.
Which doesn't mean there isn't another side to this coin; if all the Templars care about is the non-mages this can lead to abuse of power. It's a fine line to walk.

That is why there should be mix of templar and mage guards.The mage guards would keep a eye out for trouble makers and report them to the templars which will help root potential blood mages or troublesome mages.

[Wulfram]

Well, Mages are a separate group because they're separated out from the rest of society. I don't think it's inherently especially true - it would apply in some sense, but only in the same sort of way as blacksmiths or nobles or farmers are.

I think the Circle should have at least had the First Enchanter and Knight Commander as equals, with the Grand Cleric as neutral arbiter - in fact I get the impression that might have been the original intention. But the Knight Commander seems to have gained in power in practice - perhaps the big change was the addition of Annulment, which by it's very presence changes the relationship.

Modifié par Wulfram, 27 octobre 2013 - 07:41 .

[CroGamer002]

Qistina wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
It is only per thousand. If there are say 3 million people in Thedas total. There are around 600,000 templars. You could probably say that there around 100,000-200,000 mages.

600,000 Templars? Are you kidding me...even medieval Crusaders are not that many...Saladin alone can only gather 200,000

Heh, you're actually correct there.

Medieval times couldn't raise that much of army, neither Byzantium Eastern Roman Empire nor any Muslims Caliphate.

Let alone have that large standing army.


While yes, Classical Era could have pull such vast army despite having lower world population. However, Medieval times had more localized governments that focused more on economic growth to compete with other local government, then to be ready to wage total war.


Pretty much should be the case with Dragon Age.
Hell, Tevinter Imperium is very similar to Roman Empire and now it's remnants look to be in shape of Byzantium Eastern Roman Empire. Battling and losing against nation of foreign religion, that is also more technologically advanced.

[Hellion Rex]

Mesina2 wrote...

Qistina wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
It is only per thousand. If there are say 3 million people in Thedas total. There are around 600,000 templars. You could probably say that there around 100,000-200,000 mages.

600,000 Templars? Are you kidding me...even medieval Crusaders are not that many...Saladin alone can only gather 200,000

Heh, you're actually correct there.

Medieval times couldn't raise that much of army, neither Byzantium Eastern Roman Empire nor any Muslims Caliphate.

Let alone have that large standing army.


While yes, Classical Era could have pull such vast army despite having lower world population. However, Medieval times had more localized governments that focused more on economic growth to compete with other local government, then to be ready to wage total war.


Pretty much should be the case with Dragon Age.
Hell, Tevinter Imperium is very similar to Roman Empire and now it's remnants look to be in shape of Byzantium Eastern Roman Empire. Battling and losing against nation of foreign religion, that is also more technologically advanced.

I know. I was just trying to make an example using the percentages I gave.

[CroGamer002]

^Yeah, well.

You still given me excuse to nerd out what I know of that in Medieval history.