810 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Templars aren't very numerous, I don't think. Summoning them in the DA:O ending gets you 16 of them, compared 12 Mages, 50 Elves/Dwarves/Soldiers or 4 Golems.

edit:  I don't think these numbers are particularly representative overall, but they do give the impression of Templars being limited in numbers but elite.  Even if all the ones you casually slaughter in DA2 might run counter to that impression

Modifié par Wulfram, 27 octobre 2013 - 07:50 .

[Boycott Bioware]

Wulfram wrote...
Templars aren't very numerous, I don't think. Summoning them in the DA:O ending gets you 16 of them, compared 12 Mages, 50 Elves/Dwarves/Soldiers or 4 Golems.

edit: I don't think these numbers are particularly representative overall, but they do give the impression of Templars being limited in numbers but elite. Even if all the ones you casually slaughter in DA2 might run counter to that impression

Actually the final battle numbers is quite logical

50 Dwarf, 50 human, 50 Elves makes 150 men...these are the ones who are near the Warden and the Warden can call them because they are near, the rest fighting "somewhere"...so i estimate the whole army is about 600-700 men...maximum of 1000 men

That's make Templars are about 40-50 only

[CroGamer002]

Let's say 20 million humans live in Thedas, like Late Medieval Europe.

And like 1/20 humans are born mages.

That means 1,000,000 mages are around.

However, due to limited offsprings to be made with mages due to being discouraged in the Circle and even outside Circle apostates are mainly isolated, density of mages is very low and most reside in Tevinter Imperium.

Let's give random number and 800,000 mages live in Tevinter Imperium, since it's very encouraging to have mages in your bloodline and many apostates flee there. So 200,000 in rest of Andrestian kingdoms and let's say every 1/10 of them are apostates. So 180,000 live in Circle and since there are 12 of them, Circles averagely house 15,000 mages but number should vary per each Circle.

And Templar's should outnumber a little bit mages, so let's say there's 200,000. Around 16,600 per Circle.

So, this numbers are realistic though maybe a bit too large, especially since I didn't count other races. But should be close to real numbers.

Quite a lot for sizable war too, forcing kingdoms to take side or go against both since their lands will be battlegrounds. As well, some nobles can take advantage of situation to attempt taking kingdom for themselves or for independence, by allying with one of the factions.

So yeah, a giant mess and even more so required to reach a compromising solution as both sides will have significant numbers, resources and lot's of motivation to fight til the end. And this war will only be behind Blights in caused casualties, if it get's prolonged.

So either a total victory of one of the sides or they'll have to be forced to compromising new solution.

[TheKomandorShepard]

i always have number of mages at least circle mages in thedas is small like above thousand and templars i don't know few thousands in thedas or something about 10 k in thedas.Unless there is somewhere information and im wrong.

[errant_knight]

Mages have to be born mages. Templars can be created with lyrium and the Chantry have a built in farm system. As in historic medieval society, people give children to the chantry. If you can't afford to take care of them, the chantry is a great way to ensure that they're fed, clothed, housed and educated. In many ways, their security is more assured than is that of most commoners. There's likely no shortage of orphans or unwanted children, especially after the blight.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mesina2 wrote...

Let's say 20 million humans live in Thedas, like Late Medieval Europe.

Why the fixation on Europe? Why not Asia?

We don't exactly know the population of TheDas or it's entire size...

And like 1/20 humans are born mages.

I'd say that's too big of a number. Mages are supposed to be very rare.

There are 12 Cricles and I can guarantee they dont hold more than a thousand mages, tops (and this is very genereous estimate).

[Wulfram]

Thedas's inspiration from medieval europe is fairly obvious. So its population numbers are as good as any to use as a basic guess.

I don't think mages are more than 1/1000. They have to be rare, or locking them up wouldn't be practical. But there's a very annoying lack of even ballpark numbers, so you can argue for almost anything.

Modifié par Wulfram, 27 octobre 2013 - 10:35 .

[CroGamer002]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Why the fixation on Europe? Why not Asia?

We don't exactly know the population of TheDas or it's entire size...

I don't know.

Maybe because Dragon Age is mainly inspired by Medieval Europe?

I'd say that's too big of a number. Mages are supposed to be very rare.

There are 12 Cricles and I can guarantee they dont hold more than a thousand mages, tops (and this is very genereous estimate).

Well, perhaps I guess.
We don't exactly have exact numbers.

[Lazy Jer]

Okay, I have to say this. Regarding the mage to non-mage ratio, you know how many mages there are? As many as Bioware needs to be. It's not a real-world statistic, it's a game. The game, to my knowledge, never mentions how many mages are born out of how many non-mages, so trying to chart the actual statistic is just basically guess work and your guess is going to depend greatly on whether you support one side or the other and how that effects your argument.

[HiroVoid]

Lazy Jer wrote...

Okay, I have to say this. Regarding the mage to non-mage ratio, you know how many mages there are? As many as Bioware needs to be. It's not a real-world statistic, it's a game. The game, to my knowledge, never mentions how many mages are born out of how many non-mages, so trying to chart the actual statistic is just basically guess work and your guess is going to depend greatly on whether you support one side or the other and how that effects your argument.

You are actually more correct in determining story-wise is more important than trying to apply actual mathematics.  Of course, that's why I said it's impossible that the number could be one in three or anywhere close to that numerous.  Storywise, the mages must remain rare cases otherwise people wouldn't be that surprised at having a mage child and they must be a minority, so they can always play that angle.

[Bleachrude]

Mesina2 wrote...


And Templar's should outnumber a little bit mages, so let's say there's 200,000. Around 16,600 per Circle.

So, this numbers are realistic though maybe a bit too large, especially since I didn't count other races. But should be close to real numbers.

Quite a lot for sizable war too, forcing kingdoms to take side or go against both since their lands will be battlegrounds. As well, some nobles can take advantage of situation to attempt taking kingdom for themselves or for independence, by allying with one of the factions.

.

Not really...you're assuming that you can bring that many foces to bear at one point...VERY unlikely to be even able to get 1/10 of that number in one place.  Remember, this number is spread out over the entirety of Thedas. A kingdom though, assuming ti doesn't leave its borders is more likely able to bring a higher concentration of force given the smaller area it can pull troops from.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
I would argue that even 1 in a 1000 is way too low man. 1/20 is maybe more accurate. 50/1000 seems to be more realistic.

Then there should not be any Mage-Templar WAR at all...lol

How many are going fight in a WAR? 100? 200? 300?

You don't know alot about logistics and actual warfare do you?

[wcholcombe]

We don't have a clue on numbers of Templars. I would say there are probably 1.5 to 2 templars per mage in the towers. Reasons are this:

You need templars to train, attend Harrowing, patrol for apostates, and guard the tower.
Templars are expensive to train and outfit. They are basically supposed to be-not quite portrayed in game-a special forces type elite unit.

Also based of DA2 if you do both endings, the templars and mages equal similar numbers.

[errant_knight]

You can't use gameplay as a mark of actual numbers. The numbers in fights are so that the fight is interesting and that's about it.

[wcholcombe]

True, but I still think my numbers are accurate. 1.5 to 2 times.

[errant_knight]

I don't think we have any real way of know other than "a fair number more." There has to be more, or they wouldn't be able to control the mages, mages are a rarity of genetic whereas templars are not, etc. But we can surely say there are more templars than mages.

[Plaintiff]

If the Circle was the 'best' system, then I'd rather see Thedas fall into anarchy and ruin.

[Boycott Bioware]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You don't know alot about logistics and actual warfare do you?

One of my uncle was British army boy WW2 veteran, one is army reserve, and one was Lieutenant Colonel who serve in Congo

Modifié par Qistina, 28 octobre 2013 - 03:29 .

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You don't know alot about logistics and actual warfare do you?

One of my my uncle was British army boy WW2 veteran, one is army reserve, and one was Lieutenant Colonel who serve in Congo

and my dad was in the army... this has to do with this topic because... 

[ScarMK]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Qistina wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You don't know alot about logistics and actual warfare do you?

One of my my uncle was British army boy WW2 veteran, one is army reserve, and one was Lieutenant Colonel who serve in Congo

and my dad was in the army... this has to do with this topic because... 

Knowledge of logistics and warfare is obviously genetic.

[Boycott Bioware]

ScarMK wrote...
Knowledge of logistics and warfare is obviously genetic.

Do not underestimate peoples, some peoples always going through war, some peoples never experience war, some peoples lost many family members in war, some peoples are just fat spoiled Mc D Big Mac product who sit in front of computers and know nothing about other people suffering

[n7stormrunner]

Qistina wrote...

ScarMK wrote...
Knowledge of logistics and warfare is obviously genetic.

Do not underestimate peoples, some peoples always going through war, some peoples never experience war, some peoples lost many family members in war, some peoples are just fat spoiled Mc D Big Mac product who sit in front of computers and know nothing about other people suffering

ahh the irony

[Star fury]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
middle ground is giving mages freedom

That is not middle ground.

I'm curious, what's your "middle ground" in the mage-templar conflict?

[Boycott Bioware]

So, Templars can't be exceed Mages in numbers, the Chantry cannot control too many Templars, and Mages are born everyday. Those who going to Circle are only few, the Circle itself cannot support too many Mages. Of course the Circle offer the service of enchantment but i don't think they really get a lot of profit from that, how many are Tranquils to do that job? Chantry have to feed both Templars and Circle Mages

It is like prison, the government have to pay for both guards and the prisoners, so the Chatry have to pay both Templars and the Circle Mages

There are a lot of apostates who are not under Chantry control, the exact numbers we don't know, because children are born everyday and Templar reach is limited. The 12 Circles are just 12 Circles, Mages are more than Templars

[Boycott Bioware]

In WW2, most prisoners of war are just killed sooner or later because of they draining resources, why want to feed the enemy? Concentration camps are just a place to interrogate, for fun (rape fest) and forced labor (to build rail roads and so on), after they are used the prisoners are usually killed

So the Chantry pay heavy resource drainage to keep both Templars and Mages in the Circles...that is why they systematically kill apprentices in Harrowing and kill apostates whenever they meet them...they don't really want to capture apostates, they kill them...Circle Mages are mostly the ones who taken from childhood and so they can be brainwashed, the mature apostates like Hawke facing death if meet Templars on the road