Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Foopydoopydoo wrote...
The Circle system is not middle ground. This is middle ground: *snip*
Nope.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
Modifié par Qistina, 24 octobre 2013 - 12:12 .
Modifié par Qistina, 24 octobre 2013 - 12:25 .
There were good Imperial Japanese and plenty of evil Americans. That didn't change the overall moral juxtaposition between the sides one iota. This is similar."Mages are going to War for freedom , and Templars Are corrupt."
That is where you present it as good vs. evil. Templars aren't all necessarily corrupt, and some of the mages in Assunder have much higher ambitions than just freedom. And you completely ignore the fact that the LORE and game designers all present mages as DANGEROUS, the context of all this is that mages running around willy nilly in a large population is dangerous. The dalish have a much smaller population and they still lose clans and keepers to demon possession.
Modifié par Qistina, 24 octobre 2013 - 12:44 .
Guess what?Everyone is capable of being dangerous but do we lock up every single person because of that?No because that does'nt solve anything!Teach the mages to control their power but never ever lock them up for something they might do.wcholcombe wrote...
DatOneFanboy wrote...
wcholcombe wrote...
Really.....you are going to boil it down to Mages as being right and Templars as being evil. IT ISN'T THAT SIMPLE. BTW, have you read Asunder? Their are some pretty corrupt mages in that book who are willing to do anything, including sacrificing their fellow mages in order to get what they want.
When did i say they were right? all i said they need balance, and explained what is going to happen in organization's such as these, Templars have power over mages and lock them up, So Having a Corrupt Templar Affects their Image more then having blood mage since There will always be blood mage. , Power is root of evil, as it goes for mages it goes for templars too. Opression leads to Revolution, There will be a war, and Templars are going to Trigger it.
It will always be like this as long as Humankind breathe's
all you can do is minimize the suffering and not let a faction rise above their position, If theres a corrupt Templar Leader Killing off every mage they see. Your Pc goes and kills him, If theres a Blood Mage summoning Demons, Your PC and goes Kill it, You cant put a stop to this, All you can do is create balance
"Mages are going to War for freedom , and Templars Are corrupt."
That is where you present it as good vs. evil. Templars aren't all necessarily corrupt, and some of the mages in Assunder have much higher ambitions than just freedom. And you completely ignore the fact that the LORE and game designers all present mages as DANGEROUS, the context of all this is that mages running around willy nilly in a large population is dangerous. The dalish have a much smaller population and they still lose clans and keepers to demon possession.
Qistina wrote...
The scene above happen if we go to Sundermount in Act 2 if we send Fenriyel to the Dalish
The Dalish protect Fenriyel, even he's a half blood. Dalish totally have no problem with magic and Mages because their history. All Elves have magic, they are Mages themselves before it is all lost, and they resent human
The one that have problem with Mages are the one who have continuous war with Tevinter Imperium that are Chantry Kingdoms and Qunari
Qistina wrote...
Currently, Dalish are neutral with Tevinter. Yes there are Elven slaves in Tevinter, but there sre also in any other human kingdoms, the Dalish stance about City Elf is they are not Elves, only the Dalish are true Elves that is "The People". But they accept any City Elves who return to them.
Qistina wrote...
Templar vs Mage is totally not their problem, it's human problem
Qistina wrote...
The scene above happen if we go to Sundermount in Act 2 if we send Fenriyel to the Dalish
The Dalish protect Fenriyel, even he's a half blood. Dalish totally have no problem with magic and Mages because their history. All Elves have magic, they are Mages themselves before it is all lost, and they resent human
The one that have problem with Mages are the one who have continuous war with Tevinter Imperium that are Chantry Kingdoms and Qunari
Currently, Dalish are neutral with Tevinter. Yes there are Elven slaves in Tevinter, but there sre also in any other human kingdoms, the Dalish stance about City Elf is they are not Elves, only the Dalish are true Elves that is "The People". But they accept any City Elves who return to them.
Templar vs Mage is totally not their problem, it's human problem
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 octobre 2013 - 02:12 .
Nonsense, I need more knife-ears to practice my fireballs on. Come one come all, I say. I'll fry mages, Templars, and the rest as I see fit, and those who survie shall meet the murder knife.Steelcan wrote...
I don't see the Dalish taking a side in this. they need to stay out of it for their own good.
I'm saying they shouldn't get involved, but if they doBr3ad wrote...
Nonsense, I need more knife-ears to practice my fireballs on. Come one come all, I say. I'll fry mages, Templars, and the rest as I see fit, and those who survie shall meet the murder knife.Steelcan wrote...
I don't see the Dalish taking a side in this. they need to stay out of it for their own good.
LobselVith8 wrote...
Aveline the Knight was adopted by a Dalish clan, so there's a precedence.
Also, the Qunari seem to have a negative view on magic like the Andrastian Chantry, while the Avvar, the Chasind, and the Dalish have a more positive view of magic. I'm not sure there's a middle ground when you have such stark contrasts in ideology.
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Dalish are not neutral with Tevinter. In Tevinter most Dalish tribes are raiders or bandits. They have a worse relationship with them than any other human nation. Not surprising since the Imperium has cost the elves the most by far. And no other human nation includes slavery as such an interal part of the country, elves are arugably the worst off in the Imperium.
Modifié par Qistina, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:53 .
Qistina wrote...
Magic and Mages is a no problem for Elves
Qistina wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
Aveline the Knight was adopted by a Dalish clan, so there's a precedence.
Also, the Qunari seem to have a negative view on magic like the Andrastian Chantry, while the Avvar, the Chasind, and the Dalish have a more positive view of magic. I'm not sure there's a middle ground when you have such stark contrasts in ideology.
My original point is there is no middle ground, as i posted in previous posts in previous pages.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Dalish are not neutral with Tevinter. In Tevinter most Dalish tribes are raiders or bandits. They have a worse relationship with them than any other human nation. Not surprising since the Imperium has cost the elves the most by far. And no other human nation includes slavery as such an interal part of the country, elves are arugably the worst off in the Imperium.
I don't think so, Elves can be magisters in Tevinter Imperium....and all the negative view about Tevinter come from Fenris, because he have personal problem with Denarius
If you see the Adriana's Elven slave, she talk nice about her master...even her master cut off her father for Blood Magic ritual, well Adriana don't do that if not because of have to face Fenris...i think Tevinter are nice to their slaves, if not nice then how come she talk good about her master?
"She love papa soup...."
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:03 .
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
If you think Hadrianna is proof that Tevinters are nice to their slaves you were not paying attention to the quest. Fenris also mentions how she constantly abused him.
Elves can be magisters, but they can also be slaves. And mostly they are slaves. Any non mage in Tevinter is part of the lower classes, and the "higher" members of the underclass are "overwhelmingly human."
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:10 .
Star Fury wrote...
Good point, Qistina. I'm surprised I agree with you.
The Dalish also do not tolerate blood mages, which we all could see with Merrill.
Modifié par Qistina, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:12 .
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:12 .
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Marethari talked about "blood magic" like it was an inherently bad. Also in the Dalish Origin Hahren Paivel described Tevinter as "build on the darkest magic."
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Qistina wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
Aveline the Knight was adopted by a Dalish clan, so there's a precedence.
Also, the Qunari seem to have a negative view on magic like the Andrastian Chantry, while the Avvar, the Chasind, and the Dalish have a more positive view of magic. I'm not sure there's a middle ground when you have such stark contrasts in ideology.
My original point is there is no middle ground, as i posted in previous posts in previous pages.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Dalish are not neutral with Tevinter. In Tevinter most Dalish tribes are raiders or bandits. They have a worse relationship with them than any other human nation. Not surprising since the Imperium has cost the elves the most by far. And no other human nation includes slavery as such an interal part of the country, elves are arugably the worst off in the Imperium.
I don't think so, Elves can be magisters in Tevinter Imperium....and all the negative view about Tevinter come from Fenris, because he have personal problem with Denarius
If you see the Adriana's Elven slave, she talk nice about her master...even her master cut off her father for Blood Magic ritual, well Adriana don't do that if not because of have to face Fenris...i think Tevinter are nice to their slaves, if not nice then how come she talk good about her master?
"She love papa soup...."
If you think Hadrianna is proof that Tevinters are nice to their slaves you were not paying attention to the quest. She killed them all without a second thought. Fenris also mentions how she constantly abused him. Slaves are abused and don't know any better. When she says "everything was fine before today" Fenris says "it wasn't, you just didn't know any better."
Elves can be magisters, but they can also be slaves. And mostly they are slaves. Any non mage in Tevinter is part of the lower classes, and the "higher" members of the underclass are "overwhelmingly human."
Wait, who?dragonflight288 wrote...
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Qistina wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
Aveline the Knight was adopted by a Dalish clan, so there's a precedence.
Also, the Qunari seem to have a negative view on magic like the Andrastian Chantry, while the Avvar, the Chasind, and the Dalish have a more positive view of magic. I'm not sure there's a middle ground when you have such stark contrasts in ideology.
My original point is there is no middle ground, as i posted in previous posts in previous pages.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
The Dalish are not neutral with Tevinter. In Tevinter most Dalish tribes are raiders or bandits. They have a worse relationship with them than any other human nation. Not surprising since the Imperium has cost the elves the most by far. And no other human nation includes slavery as such an interal part of the country, elves are arugably the worst off in the Imperium.
I don't think so, Elves can be magisters in Tevinter Imperium....and all the negative view about Tevinter come from Fenris, because he have personal problem with Denarius
If you see the Adriana's Elven slave, she talk nice about her master...even her master cut off her father for Blood Magic ritual, well Adriana don't do that if not because of have to face Fenris...i think Tevinter are nice to their slaves, if not nice then how come she talk good about her master?
"She love papa soup...."
If you think Hadrianna is proof that Tevinters are nice to their slaves you were not paying attention to the quest. She killed them all without a second thought. Fenris also mentions how she constantly abused him. Slaves are abused and don't know any better. When she says "everything was fine before today" Fenris says "it wasn't, you just didn't know any better."
Elves can be magisters, but they can also be slaves. And mostly they are slaves. Any non mage in Tevinter is part of the lower classes, and the "higher" members of the underclass are "overwhelmingly human."
That Tevinter elven warrior in the Denerim Alienage (not the one standing guard at the quarantine, but the female one later on) also shows that elves who aren't mages can rise pretty high up as well, if they're not slaves.
Since we've never been to Tevinter, we can't say most elves are slave because we also know for a fact that mages in tevinter are also in slavery there as well.
The only difference I can think of is that mages have the most opportunities to rise to the top of the totem pole than non-mages.
....I can't think of any lore off the top of my head that suggests Tevinters treat their elves like the White Chantry and other Andrastian nations do, beyond the fact they freely practice slavery. If anyone has lore that shows that elves are specifically targeted as slaves, I'd appreciate it.
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, who?[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:29 .
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
World of Thedas specifically mentions that in modern Tevinter the slaves are a mix of human and elves but also that The Soporati are "overwhelmingly human." So I think the implication from that is that the elven population might not be mostly slaves, but I get the impression they are still the poorest of the underclass.eluvianix wrote...
Wait, who?[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]
He is referring to Devera: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Devera
She's a miniboss you can fight before you reach Caladrius. She desribes herself as "a servant of the Minrathous Circle," so I think that's more of a sign of her being a particularly useful minion of one of the magisters, rather than a sign that elves, much less non mages, often rise to positions of authority in the Imperium. I suppose it's also technically possible she's related to a powerful mage, that's the only way non mages can become more wealthy or powerful than anyone in the non mage classes.
Modifié par Qistina, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:12 .
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