Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...
A bunch of preachy, matriarchal zealots who would like nothing better than to seriously limit the freedom of one out of three player classes. Gee I wonder why people have problems with them. They are a fantasy version of the medieval Catholic church, complete with their idiot Pope-figure.
wcholcombe wrote...
And there was also was Wilhelm in the rebel army. A member of the circle of Magi. Who btw didn't live in the circle. This indicates that until recently mages in Thedas enjoyed more freedoms than they do sense the mess in Kirkwall went down.
Wilhelm was married and lived in a town with his wife and daughter. He was by no means a prisoner of the tower.
True, but it still doesn't negate their craziness.Rhiens VI wrote...
Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...
A bunch of preachy, matriarchal zealots who would like nothing better than to seriously limit the freedom of one out of three player classes. Gee I wonder why people have problems with them. They are a fantasy version of the medieval Catholic church, complete with their idiot Pope-figure.
Exagerration. Their zealousness is pretty tame compared to the Qun.
Very true. It could be a similar situation to like what Wynne had. Freedom to travel, but only in return for services rendered during the Blight.LobselVith8 wrote...
wcholcombe wrote...
And there was also was Wilhelm in the rebel army. A member of the circle of Magi. Who btw didn't live in the circle. This indicates that until recently mages in Thedas enjoyed more freedoms than they do sense the mess in Kirkwall went down.
Wilhelm was married and lived in a town with his wife and daughter. He was by no means a prisoner of the tower.
Considering that children are taken away by Chantry law, it's more likely Wilhelm had a boon for his service during the Orlesian occupation, considering how he was living outside the Circle Tower with his family.
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
Modifié par Necanor, 22 octobre 2013 - 08:31 .
There's more to that. Pro-templars have a cunsistacy to justify the wrong the templars do now reguardless to how far off the original intent of the circle is. The concept of templar and mages working together as it was meant to is no longer the norm and the templars as a majority seem to not want to go back to that after kirkwall. Added much of this is caused by the chantrys info on mages. The divies sudden backpeddle on how to treat mages also cause some of the templars knee jerk reaction to leaving the chantry.Necanor wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
The Quarian v Geth were stupid because both Quarianand Geth were right and wrong and the people arguing did not see that. The only ones at fault were only the leaders of the Quarians.Necanor wrote...
Oh man, these Templar v Mage threads are more extreme than the usual Quarian v Geth fights.
Isn't that the same situation as here? Two sides of moral ambiguity, each with good points on their behalf.
Of course I agree, but that is in itself a political agenda, and to realize it, you need to have enough political influence to stand against the Chantry's. It would be really nice if we could acquire such influence in DAI...wright1978 wrote...
Well of course they'll always have influence especially whilst andrastism is the dominant belief. However i don't feel their power should extend to controlling the mage faction & i'm not particularly keen for them to have a standing army at their disposal.Ieldra2 wrote...
You may divest it of some power, but any group - religious or otherwise - will not survive as a group with a defined identity without engaging in politics. There will never be a non-political religious organization. Only groups totally unconcerned with influence beyond their own members can afford to stay out of politics, and sometimes not even those, for instance if they have to defend themselves from public accusations.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 octobre 2013 - 08:34 .
Necanor wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
What's the alternative? Having a child make a deal with a demon or get posessed by one and killing dozens if not more? And I thought people would learn from what happend to Connor or Meredith's sister.
Children need to be sent to the circle and learn how to handle their powers and the connection to the fade, or else they're living time bombs.
To be serious it depended on the family. Taking a mages from there non- mage family is not wrong being that it provides the mages to learn to use there powers and a way to learn to protect themselve from demons.eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
Jaison1986 wrote...
Necanor wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
What's the alternative? Having a child make a deal with a demon or get posessed by one and killing dozens if not more? And I thought people would learn from what happend to Connor or Meredith's sister.
Children need to be sent to the circle and learn how to handle their powers and the connection to the fade, or else they're living time bombs.
How about letting them go back to see their parents from time to time? That's not so unresonable, is it? They did it in Rivain, and nobody minded.
The problem here is that it's only "some".dragonflight288 wrote...
Jaison1986 wrote...
Necanor wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
What's the alternative? Having a child make a deal with a demon or get posessed by one and killing dozens if not more? And I thought people would learn from what happend to Connor or Meredith's sister.
Children need to be sent to the circle and learn how to handle their powers and the connection to the fade, or else they're living time bombs.
How about letting them go back to see their parents from time to time? That's not so unresonable, is it? They did it in Rivain, and nobody minded.
Well, some did.
leaguer of one wrote...
The problem here is that it's only "some".dragonflight288 wrote...
Jaison1986 wrote...
Necanor wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
What's the alternative? Having a child make a deal with a demon or get posessed by one and killing dozens if not more? And I thought people would learn from what happend to Connor or Meredith's sister.
Children need to be sent to the circle and learn how to handle their powers and the connection to the fade, or else they're living time bombs.
How about letting them go back to see their parents from time to time? That's not so unresonable, is it? They did it in Rivain, and nobody minded.
Well, some did.
leaguer of one wrote...
There's more to that. Pro-templars have a cunsistacy to justify the wrong the templars do now reguardless to how far off the original intent of the circle is. The concept of templar and mages working together as it was meant to is no longer the norm and the templars as a majority seem to not want to go back to that after kirkwall. Added much of this is caused by the chantrys info on mages. The divies sudden backpeddle on how to treat mages also cause some of the templars knee jerk reaction to leaving the chantry.
Jaison1986 wrote...
Necanor wrote...
What's the alternative? Having a child make a deal with a demon or get posessed by one and killing dozens if not more? And I thought people would learn from what happend to Connor or Meredith's sister.
Children need to be sent to the circle and learn how to handle their powers and the connection to the fade, or else they're living time bombs.
How about letting them go back to see their parents from time to time? That's not so unresonable, is it? They did it in Rivain, and nobody minded.
Modifié par Necanor, 22 octobre 2013 - 08:54 .
I'm not ageinst templars. I'm just saying they go to far and are allowed to go too far.Necanor wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
There's more to that. Pro-templars have a cunsistacy to justify the wrong the templars do now reguardless to how far off the original intent of the circle is. The concept of templar and mages working together as it was meant to is no longer the norm and the templars as a majority seem to not want to go back to that after kirkwall. Added much of this is caused by the chantrys info on mages. The divies sudden backpeddle on how to treat mages also cause some of the templars knee jerk reaction to leaving the chantry.
The Templars are necessary however to uphold the balance. Giving the Templars too much power is bad of course, but so is giving the mages. No one wants a second totalitarian Tevinter-esque slave state, that brings misery, death and destruction all over the world.
That is also the problem.dragonflight288 wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
The problem here is that it's only "some".dragonflight288 wrote...
Jaison1986 wrote...
Necanor wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
What's the alternative? Having a child make a deal with a demon or get posessed by one and killing dozens if not more? And I thought people would learn from what happend to Connor or Meredith's sister.
Children need to be sent to the circle and learn how to handle their powers and the connection to the fade, or else they're living time bombs.
How about letting them go back to see their parents from time to time? That's not so unresonable, is it? They did it in Rivain, and nobody minded.
Well, some did.
And that 'some' was enough to get the ball rolling for sanctioned genocide.
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
I don't think the bribe to get into the city was something that ever reached Meredith. Most people probably consider her corrupt because the Kirkwall Circle was being filled with increasing abuses at various levels and she was overstepping her bounds of Templar authority by influencing how the city was ruled.
As for the Chantry as a whole, I suspect a lot of people prefer to think of powerful organized religion as the bad guys. Especially with things like the Circle Mages or any of the human rights problems the Andrastian nations have.
Morocco Mole wrote...
To be perfectly frank, I think we just have a bunch of people who want an easy, clear cut, good and bad black and white conflict that they can ride in and solve with their oh so grand knowledge on everything, and have rationalized such a boogeyman to fill that need.
Considering the amount of people that label the chantry as evil without a second thought you're probably right.
LobselVith8 wrote...
wcholcombe wrote...
And there was also was Wilhelm in the rebel army. A member of the circle of Magi. Who btw didn't live in the circle. This indicates that until recently mages in Thedas enjoyed more freedoms than they do sense the mess in Kirkwall went down.
Wilhelm was married and lived in a town with his wife and daughter. He was by no means a prisoner of the tower.
Considering that children are taken away by Chantry law, it's more likely Wilhelm had a boon for his service during the Orlesian occupation, considering how he was living outside the Circle Tower with his family.
Bleachrude wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
wcholcombe wrote...
And there was also was Wilhelm in the rebel army. A member of the circle of Magi. Who btw didn't live in the circle. This indicates that until recently mages in Thedas enjoyed more freedoms than they do sense the mess in Kirkwall went down.
Wilhelm was married and lived in a town with his wife and daughter. He was by no means a prisoner of the tower.
Considering that children are taken away by Chantry law, it's more likely Wilhelm had a boon for his service during the Orlesian occupation, considering how he was living outside the Circle Tower with his family.
So how do you explain Isolde then? Her grandfather was a mage and apparently one that lived with his family
Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
Bleachrude wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
Considering that children are taken away by Chantry law, it's more likely Wilhelm had a boon for his service during the Orlesian occupation, considering how he was living outside the Circle Tower with his family.
So how do you explain Isolde then? Her grandfather was a mage and apparently one that lived with his family
Being Isolde's grandfather almost certainly means he's noble. That shouldn't mean he's immune to the law, but I can only assume that it did in this case. Maybe that's why Isolde decided her son could do the same.
Necanor wrote...
eluvianix wrote...
Wait, are you being serious or sarcastic?Necanor wrote...
Taking mage children away from their families is bad?
What's the alternative? Having a child make a deal with a demon or get posessed by one and killing dozens if not more? And I thought people would learn from what happend to Connor or Meredith's sister.
Children need to be sent to the circle and learn how to handle their powers and the connection to the fade, or else they're living time bombs.
Modifié par Silfren, 23 octobre 2013 - 03:43 .
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