1420 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

More mages are born everyday so in order to kill them all you would need to make sure none can fall through the cracks.

We've got time to prepare because mages have a nine-month incubation period.

And how would you know if the baby is a mage or not?Mages can produce non mage children as well so gathering them all up and killiing them one by one is the only possibility.

All knowledge points to the fact that dsitinguishing mages and nonmages is impossible until a mage manifests.

I'm not sure this is at all true.  I thought there was lore indicating that templars had the means to sense magic.  It's the entire point of blood magic, actually--it's the only magic that cannot be detected by templars.  

Where did this idea even come from that templars can't detect mages, when that's part and parcel of their entire purpose?!

No need for exclamation marks. I am looking at all the templar pages on the Wiki. Just because they can dispel magic doesn't mean that they can necessarily sense a mage who is not using their power at the moment, never mind a latent mage who has not even manifested. I could be wrong, but that is just the way that I see it.

Ser Bryant could tell the Warden and Morrigan are mages even though they had'nt used magic near him.

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And how in the world would they even attain a homeworld, scattered as they are? They do not have the might to take over Orlais, even if they were given an opening.

We'll need to assess the situation in Inquisition.

True. We need more information to understand the state of things in Inquisition. I sincerely hope this is a topic we can explore further in the game.

There is no way that the elves will ever take over any part of any human nation ever. 

You would be surprised. If the Dalish were to rediscover some secrets of Arlathan, then you had best start praying to the Maker. And also, considering the rumor of elven rebellion in Orlais, per the new book Masked Empire,  I would not be so quick to put down the elves. 

The secrets that failed in the first place? The secrets that might not even all be real in the first place? Yeah, it's not going to happen and I won't be surprised. 

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

More mages are born everyday so in order to kill them all you would need to make sure none can fall through the cracks.

We've got time to prepare because mages have a nine-month incubation period.

And how would you know if the baby is a mage or not?Mages can produce non mage children as well so gathering them all up and killiing them one by one is the only possibility.

All knowledge points to the fact that dsitinguishing mages and nonmages is impossible until a mage manifests.

I'm not sure this is at all true.  I thought there was lore indicating that templars had the means to sense magic.  It's the entire point of blood magic, actually--it's the only magic that cannot be detected by templars.  

Where did this idea even come from that templars can't detect mages, when that's part and parcel of their entire purpose?!

No need for exclamation marks. I am looking at all the templar pages on the Wiki. Just because they can dispel magic doesn't mean that they can necessarily sense a mage who is not using their power at the moment, never mind a latent mage who has not even manifested. I could be wrong, but that is just the way that I see it.

Ser Bryant could tell the Warden and Morrigan are mages even though they had'nt used magic near him.

And yet in DAII, you are a mage who can walk through the Gallows past a crap ton of templars that do nothing to hinder you or stop you in any way.

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And how in the world would they even attain a homeworld, scattered as they are? They do not have the might to take over Orlais, even if they were given an opening.

We'll need to assess the situation in Inquisition.

True. We need more information to understand the state of things in Inquisition. I sincerely hope this is a topic we can explore further in the game.

There is no way that the elves will ever take over any part of any human nation ever. 

You would be surprised. If the Dalish were to rediscover some secrets of Arlathan, then you had best start praying to the Maker. And also, considering the rumor of elven rebellion in Orlais, per the new book Masked Empire,  I would not be so quick to put down the elves. 

The secrets that failed in the first place? The secrets that might not even all be real in the first place? Yeah, it's not going to happen and I won't be surprised. 

Hey you never know, that's all. 

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

More mages are born everyday so in order to kill them all you would need to make sure none can fall through the cracks.

We've got time to prepare because mages have a nine-month incubation period.

And how would you know if the baby is a mage or not?Mages can produce non mage children as well so gathering them all up and killiing them one by one is the only possibility.

All knowledge points to the fact that dsitinguishing mages and nonmages is impossible until a mage manifests.

I'm not sure this is at all true.  I thought there was lore indicating that templars had the means to sense magic.  It's the entire point of blood magic, actually--it's the only magic that cannot be detected by templars.  

Where did this idea even come from that templars can't detect mages, when that's part and parcel of their entire purpose?!

No need for exclamation marks. I am looking at all the templar pages on the Wiki. Just because they can dispel magic doesn't mean that they can necessarily sense a mage who is not using their power at the moment, never mind a latent mage who has not even manifested. I could be wrong, but that is just the way that I see it.

Ser Bryant could tell the Warden and Morrigan are mages even though they had'nt used magic near him.

And yet in DAII, you are a mage who can walk through the Gallows past a crap ton of templars that do nothing to hinder you or stop you in any way.

I just chalk that up to Plot Induced Stupidity.The Templars in Kirkwall should have been on Mage Hawke and company like white on rice.

[MisterJB]

Silfren wrote...
....So you're just arguing that it's totally possible to slaughter countless mage children without sundering the Veil...to be pedantic? 

Spare me the sermon. It was a mental exercise, that's all.
And yes, it's doable. Just spread the kids in Thedas and spread the executions in time.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

More mages are born everyday so in order to kill them all you would need to make sure none can fall through the cracks.

We've got time to prepare because mages have a nine-month incubation period.

And how would you know if the baby is a mage or not?Mages can produce non mage children as well so gathering them all up and killiing them one by one is the only possibility.

All knowledge points to the fact that dsitinguishing mages and nonmages is impossible until a mage manifests.

I'm not sure this is at all true.  I thought there was lore indicating that templars had the means to sense magic.  It's the entire point of blood magic, actually--it's the only magic that cannot be detected by templars.  

Where did this idea even come from that templars can't detect mages, when that's part and parcel of their entire purpose?!

No need for exclamation marks. I am looking at all the templar pages on the Wiki. Just because they can dispel magic doesn't mean that they can necessarily sense a mage who is not using their power at the moment, never mind a latent mage who has not even manifested. I could be wrong, but that is just the way that I see it.

Ser Bryant could tell the Warden and Morrigan are mages even though they had'nt used magic near him.

And yet in DAII, you are a mage who can walk through the Gallows past a crap ton of templars that do nothing to hinder you or stop you in any way.

I just chalk that up to Plot Induced Stupidity.The Templars in Kirkwall should have been on Mage Hawke and company like white on rice.

Most definitely. But I hope that we can be more recognizable as a mage in DAI, even if that might hinder our efforts more.

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

More mages are born everyday so in order to kill them all you would need to make sure none can fall through the cracks.

We've got time to prepare because mages have a nine-month incubation period.

And how would you know if the baby is a mage or not?Mages can produce non mage children as well so gathering them all up and killiing them one by one is the only possibility.

All knowledge points to the fact that dsitinguishing mages and nonmages is impossible until a mage manifests.

I'm not sure this is at all true.  I thought there was lore indicating that templars had the means to sense magic.  It's the entire point of blood magic, actually--it's the only magic that cannot be detected by templars.  

Where did this idea even come from that templars can't detect mages, when that's part and parcel of their entire purpose?!

No need for exclamation marks. I am looking at all the templar pages on the Wiki. Just because they can dispel magic doesn't mean that they can necessarily sense a mage who is not using their power at the moment, never mind a latent mage who has not even manifested. I could be wrong, but that is just the way that I see it.

Ser Bryant could tell the Warden and Morrigan are mages even though they had'nt used magic near him.

And yet in DAII, you are a mage who can walk through the Gallows past a crap ton of templars that do nothing to hinder you or stop you in any way.

It's been well established though that that was a serious fumble on the part of the Devs regarding gameplay/story segregation.  It shouldn't at all be used to dispute the actual lore which says that templars CAN detect mages.

[Reaverwind]

MisterJB wrote...

Silfren wrote...
....So you're just arguing that it's totally possible to slaughter countless mage children without sundering the Veil...to be pedantic? 

Spare me the sermon. It was a mental exercise, that's all.
And yes, it's doable. Just spread the kids in Thedas and spread the executions in time.

No need to go to all that effort. Mage children aren't all born at once, after all. Kill them as they appear - just remove them from a populated area, first.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

But the comparison does'nt work because the Dalish do it for survival where as the Chantry takes children away for no other reason than to keep control.

I'm sure you have no problem proving it then - that there are no practical reasons whay the Chantry is doing it.

I'm pretty sure the Dalish wait until the child is old enough to make
their own choices as to whether they want to join another clan or not.

Magic manifests rather early..so I'd say that's a no. Either way, you'd still have to prove it.

[Hellion Rex]

@Silfren please point me to that lore. I seriously do want to make sure I have my info right. 

[Silfren]

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And how in the world would they even attain a homeworld, scattered as they are? They do not have the might to take over Orlais, even if they were given an opening.

We'll need to assess the situation in Inquisition.

True. We need more information to understand the state of things in Inquisition. I sincerely hope this is a topic we can explore further in the game.

There is no way that the elves will ever take over any part of any human nation ever. 

You would be surprised. If the Dalish were to rediscover some secrets of Arlathan, then you had best start praying to the Maker. And also, considering the rumor of elven rebellion in Orlais, per the new book Masked Empire,  I would not be so quick to put down the elves. 

The secrets that failed in the first place? The secrets that might not even all be real in the first place? Yeah, it's not going to happen and I won't be surprised. 

I wouldn't summarily dismiss it as not going to happen quite so fast.  There are strong indicators that the secrets of Arlathan are pretty significant to the larger story.

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And how in the world would they even attain a homeworld, scattered as they are? They do not have the might to take over Orlais, even if they were given an opening.

We'll need to assess the situation in Inquisition.

True. We need more information to understand the state of things in Inquisition. I sincerely hope this is a topic we can explore further in the game.

There is no way that the elves will ever take over any part of any human nation ever. 

You would be surprised. If the Dalish were to rediscover some secrets of Arlathan, then you had best start praying to the Maker. And also, considering the rumor of elven rebellion in Orlais, per the new book Masked Empire,  I would not be so quick to put down the elves. 

The secrets that failed in the first place? The secrets that might not even all be real in the first place? Yeah, it's not going to happen and I won't be surprised. 

I wouldn't summarily dismiss it as not going to happen quite so fast.  There are strong indicators that the secrets of Arlathan are pretty significant to the larger story.

Agreed. I feel that they in particular introduced the eluvians for a good reason.

[dragonflight288]

Going back to the issue about having templars in major settlements, going on regular patrols, I have to quote Aveline on something related to that.

Aveline: You'd think we'd be able to commission a templar or two to help with patrols. But no, that would be demeaning.

It seems that the Chantry, or the templar's stance on that sort of thing is that it's beneath them and should be up to the guards.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...
If they rampage, they'll draw attention. Would it truly have racked up a higher body count than the Annulment? While possible, I find it rather unlikely.

Yes. Why? Becuase:

1) Mages are few in numbers
2) Annulment isn't called for a single Abomination, but only under dire circumstances
3) It's the middle ages. News travels at the speed of of a horse or a walking human. Meaning an abomination cna obliderate a village and no one may know for days. By which time that abomination is long gone. Mainign any kind of oversight/patrol in a large rural area is a nightmare even for modern military forces.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

But the comparison does'nt work because the Dalish do it for survival where as the Chantry takes children away for no other reason than to keep control.

I'm sure you have no problem proving it then - that there are no practical reasons whay the Chantry is doing it.

It's not an isolated view: the mage protagonist can say that the Circle will do whatever the Chantry tells them to do, and Alistair doesn't deny it.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

I'm pretty sure the Dalish wait until the child is old enough to make their own choices as to whether they want to join another clan or not. 

Magic manifests rather early..so I'd say that's a no. Either way, you'd still have to prove it. 

There were several contenders for the position of First in Zathrian's clan. I'm not certain what purpose you're aiming for in comparing the imprisonment of mages in Circles with some young mages being taught to be First, which they can chose to deny, as Merrill did.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 24 octobre 2013 - 05:29 .

[Hellion Rex]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Going back to the issue about having templars in major settlements, going on regular patrols, I have to quote Aveline on something related to that.

Aveline: You'd think we'd be able to commission a templar or two to help with patrols. But no, that would be demeaning.

It seems that the Chantry, or the templar's stance on that sort of thing is that it's beneath them and should be up to the guards.

True, but that is in a major city that seems to have more issues with mages than not. However, the actual stance on Chantries telling guards that they cannot requisition templars might not necessarily be unique to Kirkwall.

[Medhia Nox]

@dragonflight288: Just illuminates the distorted view the Templars have come to have.

Time for them to start getting their hands dirty again.

@Eluvianix: I think the eluvians are either part of the problem or the solution in Inquisition.

I would not be surprised at all - if opening the eluvians was causing the tears.

Morrigan says they go somewhere "beyond the Fade" - I'd love for her to have come back possessed. 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 24 octobre 2013 - 05:28 .

[Hellion Rex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
If they rampage, they'll draw attention. Would it truly have racked up a higher body count than the Annulment? While possible, I find it rather unlikely.

Yes. Why? Becuase:

1) Mages are few in numbers
2) Annulment isn't called for a single Abomination, but only under dire circumstances
3) It's the middle ages. News travels at the speed of of a horse or a walking human. Meaning an abomination cna obliderate a village and no one may know for days. By which time that abomination is long gone. Mainign any kind of oversight/patrol in a large rural area is a nightmare even for modern military forces.

Exactly. If we are to help prevent more abominations from wreaking havoc, we need to also begin searching for better ways at communication.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@dragonflight288: Just illuminates the distorted view the Templars have come to have.

Time for them to start getting their hands dirty again.

@Eluvianix: I think the eluvians are either part of the problem or the solution in Inquisition.

I would not be surprised at all - if opening the eluvians was causing the tears.

Morrigan says they go somewhere "beyond the Fade" - I'd love for her to have come back possessed. 

True, but that begs the question of how many were left after Arlathan sunk like Atlantis. I believe Tevinter managed to keep some in tact however. 

Also, now that I think about it, Audacity seemed to know a lot about the eluvian's capabilities. Perhaps the eluvians can adversely affect the Veil.


Edit: Forget possessed! I just want to know what the heck is "beyond the Fade". Also, I hope we can converse with a demon in some way to understand the workings of the Fade a little more. I found that little tidbit of Hybris's speech so interesting.

Modifié par eluvianix, 24 octobre 2013 - 05:32 .

[dragonflight288]

@dragonflight288: Just illuminates the distorted view the Templars have come to have.

Time for them to start getting their hands dirty again.

I agree.

But not if they harm innocents, like it seems the Red Templars will be doing frequently. We'll have to wait for Inquisition to get any real answers on that front.

[dragonflight288]

True, but that is in a major city that seems to have more issues with mages than not. However, the actual stance on Chantries telling guards that they cannot requisition templars might not necessarily be unique to Kirkwall.

I don't think it's unique to Kirkwall at all. I actually think it's an engrained attitude the Templars as a whole have gained over time. And in many instances, in many countries of Thedas, we have multiple examples of templars believing themselves to be above the law as well, and feel perfectly justified ignoring the crown, the chantry's rules, and even the Divine.

[Medhia Nox]

@dragonflight288: Oh, I think the Red Templars will have to be put down. They seem like the most extreme version of fear and paranoia yet in the Templar regime.

But - after their lyrium addled senses are brought back under control - the ring leaders are executed, and the Templars are "recovered" - I hope to create a more useful group of mage guardians.

The Templars need to protect the mundane from magical threats - but also need to protect the mages from the ignorant superstitions of mundanes.

And they need to do it without becoming a fascist group of drug addicts.

[Lotion Soronarr]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
That's where the outposts come into play.

How would we structure the outposts so that they would be able to prevent abominations more effectively?

Brilliant. Let's have a dozen tempalrs in every village.
1 templar for every square mile.
I'm sure it's PERFECTLY practical and doable.

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

But the comparison does'nt work because the Dalish do it for survival where as the Chantry takes children away for no other reason than to keep control.

I'm sure you have no problem proving it then - that there are no practical reasons whay the Chantry is doing it.

I'm pretty sure the Dalish wait until the child is old enough to make
their own choices as to whether they want to join another clan or not.

Magic manifests rather early..so I'd say that's a no. Either way, you'd still have to prove it.

Okay,for one the Chantry's military might is dependent on the mages,for centuries they have been locking mages up not only to protect the outside world but to consolidate their power.Tevinter is the only nation to have a army of mages besides the Chantry and lore states the Chantry believed all mages needed to be under their control unlike the Imperial Chantry who believed otherwise.

The current Circle system is where the Chantry keeps control of their weapons until the time is right to call them out to the battlefield.