1420 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

The Chantry and Orlais are so closely connected that there is no way that one could be said to act without the other.  People tend to forget that Orlais is not only is the modern day seat of the Chantry, but where the Chantry began.  The very empire of Orlais was built around Emperor Drakon's religious zeal and his intention to spread the Chant of Light to all the corners of the world via imperial conquest.

I disagree. The Chantry and Orlais are both perfectly capable of acting independently of eachother. Usually however their End Game coincides with eachother's. The Chantry certainly weren't against the war with the Dales. But the Chantry itself weren't involved until the Exalted March was called.

Wow, you're blind. How is it the the people whi called the march not involved? Added, you think the chantry will ignore their mean benifactors?

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The World of Thedas, page 106:
"Divine Amara III is elected. The famously fanatical leader is said to enjoy bonfire fueled by burning maleficar. He reign does not last long."

Andrastians aren't below removing their Divine if she is a dangerous fanatical.

Shhhhhhh! You are making the Chantry sound reasonable!

Sorry, but for some reason I'm not impressed over a people's willingness to remove a Divine if she is a dangerous fanatic.  If you wait until someone is already burning people in bonfires, then personally I think you've wait a mite too long.  Don't even try to convince me that nobody had a clue that she was tad on the crazy side before she started ordering people to be immolated.

Only idiots would NOT take action against a Divine who had gone 'round the bend like that, so no, it doesn't make the Chantry look reasonable. 

Show me people who would observe Lambert's callousness toward apprentice mages and investigate him, then try to remove him from power, and show me people who would observe Meredith's usurpation of secular rule in Kirkwall, and have her removed from power, and THEN I'll consider that the Chantry is reasonable. 

[leaguer of one]

Bleachrude wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

@ ShadowLord

Adding on to number 3 of your list. Not only did the Chantry not say anything about Orlais occupying Ferelden and stay silent while the Orlesians abused the Fereldens horribly, they actively supported them in the war between them, to the point of lending the Orlesians as many mages from the Circle as the Orlesians felt they needed, and denied Fereldens any mages at all.

They only started changing their tune when it became obvious that Ferelden has started winning the war, and they realized their support of Orlais could, and in fact nearly did, get them kicked out of Ferelden.

Bad example.

The Nevarrans overtook the Blasted Lands but from reading the books, the blasted lands have been orlesian in all but name since they were called the blasted lands. 

The Chantry hasn't said peep about Neverra being an aggressor,....

They don't need to because the Orliesan are doing a good enough job turning the people of that area agenst Neverra. This inculdes the local chantries in that area.

[EmperorSahlertz]

leaguer of one wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

The Chantry and Orlais are so closely connected that there is no way that one could be said to act without the other.  People tend to forget that Orlais is not only is the modern day seat of the Chantry, but where the Chantry began.  The very empire of Orlais was built around Emperor Drakon's religious zeal and his intention to spread the Chant of Light to all the corners of the world via imperial conquest.

I disagree. The Chantry and Orlais are both perfectly capable of acting independently of eachother. Usually however their End Game coincides with eachother's. The Chantry certainly weren't against the war with the Dales. But the Chantry itself weren't involved until the Exalted March was called.

Wow, you're blind. How is it the the people whi called the march not involved? Added, you think the chantry will ignore their mean benifactors?

You didn't even bother to read the entire post you quoted did you? Either that, or you have a severe lack of reading comprehension.

[Shadow Fox]

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The World of Thedas, page 106:
"Divine Amara III is elected. The famously fanatical leader is said to enjoy bonfire fueled by burning maleficar. He reign does not last long."

Andrastians aren't below removing their Divine if she is a dangerous fanatical.

Or she got an actual maleficar by accident once, who exploded her in response.

An actual mage would suffice. Witch burning is suicidal in a setting where a mage can snap and go abomination if they wind up in actual danger. The only way to survive is to get a muggle by mistake.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2013 - 09:26 .

[Steelcan]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The World of Thedas, page 106:
"Divine Amara III is elected. The famously fanatical leader is said to enjoy bonfire fueled by burning maleficar. He reign does not last long."

Andrastians aren't below removing their Divine if she is a dangerous fanatical.

Or she got an actual maleficar by accident once, who exploded her in response.

An actual mage would suffice. Witch burning is suicidal in a setting where a mage can snap and go abomination if they wind up in actual danger. The only way to survive is to get a muggle by mistake.

Or you know... block the mage from using magic...


Something templars have a bit of training for

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Steelcan wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The World of Thedas, page 106:
"Divine Amara III is elected. The famously fanatical leader is said to enjoy bonfire fueled by burning maleficar. He reign does not last long."

Andrastians aren't below removing their Divine if she is a dangerous fanatical.

Or she got an actual maleficar by accident once, who exploded her in response.

An actual mage would suffice. Witch burning is suicidal in a setting where a mage can snap and go abomination if they wind up in actual danger. The only way to survive is to get a muggle by mistake.

Or you know... block the mage from using magic...

Something templars have a bit of training for

The Codex on abominations indicates that an abomination is still dangerous even in the context of that training. I don't think we're given any indication they can block a mage from turning, either.

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to be slightly annoying.

Modifié par cjones91, 30 octobre 2013 - 09:40 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

The Black Chantry, the Dalish, and the Qun kind of do claim that. (Am I missing any?)

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

Orlais,Ferelden,The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 30 octobre 2013 - 09:43 .

[cjones91]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

The Black Chantry, the Dalish, and the Qun kind of do claim that. (Am I missing any?)

The Black Chantry from I've heard does'nt even have morals to speak of,the Dalish are arrogant but not self righteous,and the Qunari tell you up front when they are going to do something.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

The Black Chantry, the Dalish, and the Qun kind of do claim that. (Am I missing any?)

Qun as far isn't corrupted at all i wouldn't say that they are good guys , black chantry yep , dalish i would say depending on the clan some of them reminds family others clan are bandits at least zevran says that.   

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The World of Thedas, page 106:
"Divine Amara III is elected. The famously fanatical leader is said to enjoy bonfire fueled by burning maleficar. He reign does not last long."

Andrastians aren't below removing their Divine if she is a dangerous fanatical.

Or she got an actual maleficar by accident once, who exploded her in response.

An actual mage would suffice. Witch burning is suicidal in a setting where a mage can snap and go abomination if they wind up in actual danger. The only way to survive is to get a muggle by mistake.

Or you know... block the mage from using magic...

Something templars have a bit of training for

The Codex on abominations indicates that an abomination is still dangerous even in the context of that training. I don't think we're given any indication they can block a mage from turning, either.

Regardless, even I can see Steelcan's point.  I'm sure that mages subjected to this kind of treatment were probably thoroughly incapacitated first.  It's kind of obvious that they would've been, really.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Pretty much everyone thinks they are better than everyone else. At least the major factions do, even if it's for different reasons. But the Qunari, Dalish and Chantry certainly all do think they are morally superior to their rivals. And I would suspect the mage rebellion does to if Anders is any indicator of them.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 30 octobre 2013 - 09:47 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

"Surfacers. If you must be our Warden at least know us." I don't remember the exact wording here, but I can tell you its what the guard in Orzammar says if you ask about... either the Provings or the Shaperate. Probably the former.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

An actual mage would suffice. Witch burning is suicidal in a setting where a mage can snap and go abomination if they wind
up in actual danger. The only way to survive is to get a muggle by mistake.

Or you know... block the mage from using magic...

Something templars have a bit of training for

The Codex on abominations indicates that an abomination is still dangerous even in the context of that training. I don't think we're given any indication they can block a mage from turning, either.

Regardless, even I can see Steelcan's point.  I'm sure that mages subjected to this kind of treatment were probably thoroughly incapacitated first.  It's kind of obvious that they would've been, really.

If this is something that happened rather than being more in-setting propaganda. (If it were anyplace else but WoT, I'd be leaning towards the latter. As it is, I'd say it probably actually happened, though I would not be at all surprised to learn she got eaten by an abomination.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2013 - 09:51 .

[cjones91]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

"Surfacers. If you must be our Warden at least know us." I don't remember the exact wording here, but I can tell you its what the guard in Orzammar says if you ask about... either the Provings or the Shaperate. Probably the former.

The last one is undertandable if the Warden does'nt know anything about dwarven history and would be akin to slight condescension.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Yes the Chantry is corrupt but no more then the other factions.

But the other factions don't claim to be morally superior than everyone else.That's why people find the Chantry's corruption to slightly annoying.

Orlais,Ferelden,The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

Orlais corrupted? yes but they think they are superior ,good guys not at all , Ferelden hmm i would agrue they consider better than orlais and well they are but good guys hard to tell , where kirkwall finds themselves moraly better than others , the mages what mages uldred not anders well i think.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 octobre 2013 - 09:52 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

"Surfacers. If you must be our Warden at least know us." I don't remember the exact wording here, but I can tell you its what the guard in Orzammar says if you ask about... either the Provings or the Shaperate. Probably the former.

The last one is undertandable if the Warden does'nt know anything about dwarven history and would be akin to slight condescension.

That's as may be, but he still takes on a rather smug tone as he says it. I don't think he's insulted. I think he's laughing on the inside.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2013 - 09:52 .

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

Given that's about the most pretentious, condescending-as-f*ck way to compliment someone, I'm not sure how you could say that wasn't self-righteous.  Just sayin'.

Modifié par Silfren, 30 octobre 2013 - 10:02 .

[Shadow Fox]

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

Given that's about the most pretentious, condescending-as-f*ck way to compliment someone, I'm not sure how you could say that wasn't self-righteous.  Just sayin'.

Sarcasm.

[cjones91]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

"Surfacers. If you must be our Warden at least know us." I don't remember the exact wording here, but I can tell you its what the guard in Orzammar says if you ask about... either the Provings or the Shaperate. Probably the former.

The last one is undertandable if the Warden does'nt know anything about dwarven history and would be akin to slight condescension.

That's as may be, but he still takes on a rather smug tone as he says it. I don't think he's insulted. I think he's laughing on the inside.

The dwarves in general are rather smug to outsiders or the casteless,I imagine someone would show the same reaction if someone who is supposed to know about the history showed ignorance of it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Qunari belief in their own moral superiority is not only one of the root causes and driving factors of the incident at the end of Act 2 it's also their reason for the imperative to conquer Thedas for it's own good, at least in their mind.