1420 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

Given that's about the most pretentious, condescending-as-f*ck way to compliment someone, I'm not sure how you could say that wasn't self-righteous.  Just sayin'.

Or it could be the Qunari's version of being snarky.Sten's remarks in DAO could be interpreted as condescension but really it was just him being sarcastic.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

cjones91 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Orlais,Ferelden.The Dalish,The Dwarves,The Qunari,Kirkwall,The Mages?

The Chantry is also part of Orlais so that does'nt count,and the other ones aside from the mages don't act all self righteous.

"I have a growing lack of disgust for you," said the Arishok in a non-self righteous manner.

Given that's about the most pretentious, condescending-as-f*ck way to compliment someone, I'm not sure how you could say that wasn't self-righteous.  Just sayin'.

Or it could be the Qunari's version of being snarky.Sten's remarks in DAO could be interpreted as condescension but really it was just him being sarcastic.

I frequently mix the two when typing responses. Just saying.

[dragonflight288]

The Qunari belief in their own moral superiority is not only one of the root causes and driving factors of the incident at the end of Act 2 it's also their reason for the imperative to conquer Thedas for it's own good, at least in their mind.

This is pretty much my understanding of the Qunari as well.

[leaguer of one]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Qunari belief in their own moral superiority is not only one of the root causes and driving factors of the incident at the end of Act 2 it's also their reason for the imperative to conquer Thedas for it's own good, at least in their mind.

This is pretty much my understanding of the Qunari as well.

How can you blame them? They come from a culture that uphelds selfless ideals with each person working together to support there system. How would some from that react to a place where everyone one is too busy clawing there way to the top to ****** on everyone else to see how messed up everything is? 

[TEWR]

"Surfacers. If you must be our Warden at least know us." I don't remember the exact wording here, but I can tell you its what the guard in Orzammar says if you ask about... either the Provings or the Shaperate. Probably the former.

I can't blame the guy for saying that. It's not really morally superior in any way. It might be condescending to your ignorance of a culture, but I can't see it as trying to be morally superior.

Politically, the Wardens should know about the diverse cultures of Thedas, so they can keep a good standing with them. Know what to do and what not to do, what to say and when to keep quiet.

Duncan makes it a point to do just that.

EDIT: And it's the guard that shows up after the Bhelen-Harrowmont mini-fight, at the junction that leads to Dust Town, the Provings, and the Merchant/Diamond Quarter.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 octobre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

"Surfacers. If you must be our Warden at least know us." I don't remember the exact wording here, but I can tell you its what the guard in Orzammar says if you ask about... either the Provings or the Shaperate. Probably the former.

I can't blame the guy for saying that. It's not really morally superior in any way. It might be condescending to your ignorance of a culture, but I can't see it as trying to be morally superior.

Politically, the Wardens should know about the diverse cultures of Thedas, so they can keep a good standing with them. Know what to do and what not to do, what to say and when to keep quiet.

Duncan makes it a point to do just that.

EDIT: And it's the guard that shows up after the Bhelen-Harrowmont mini-fight, at the junction that leads to Dust Town, the Provings, and the Merchant/Diamond Quarter.

Point taken.

[dragonflight288]

leaguer of one wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Qunari belief in their own moral superiority is not only one of the root causes and driving factors of the incident at the end of Act 2 it's also their reason for the imperative to conquer Thedas for it's own good, at least in their mind.

This is pretty much my understanding of the Qunari as well.

How can you blame them? They come from a culture that uphelds selfless ideals with each person working together to support there system. How would some from that react to a place where everyone one is too busy clawing there way to the top to ****** on everyone else to see how messed up everything is? 

I never said I do blame them. It's my understanding that they feel their way of life is the only one worth living, and they use it as justification to spread the Qun. Just like it is also my understanding that the Chantry believes the Maker will return if the Chant is sung from all corners of the world and use that as justification to spread the Chant of Light.

How they choose to spread their philosophy/religion however, is another matter.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I think, theoretically at least, that if the Qunari ever encountered another society that they deemed just as capable as their own, then they would let that society be. However, that is highly improbable, since I doubt the Qunari would ever view another society as their equal. But at least theoretically.

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I think, theoretically at least, that if the Qunari ever encountered another society that they deemed just as capable as their own, then they would let that society be. However, that is highly improbable, since I doubt the Qunari would ever view another society as their equal. But at least theoretically.

They would have to encounter a society that shares many of their views then. If they are more free with their mages, the Qunari will dismiss their capacity to control it. I say this from a Sten and Morrigan dialogue.

Sten: I wish you people had a proper, civilized way to deal with magic.

[Silfren]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I think, theoretically at least, that if the Qunari ever encountered another society that they deemed just as capable as their own, then they would let that society be. However, that is highly improbable, since I doubt the Qunari would ever view another society as their equal. But at least theoretically.

They would have to encounter a society that shares many of their views then. If they are more free with their mages, the Qunari will dismiss their capacity to control it. I say this from a Sten and Morrigan dialogue.

Sten: I wish you people had a proper, civilized way to deal with magic.

I love how cutting out a mage's tongue and locking them into a body-cage is considered civilized.

[leaguer of one]

dragonflight288 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Qunari belief in their own moral superiority is not only one of the root causes and driving factors of the incident at the end of Act 2 it's also their reason for the imperative to conquer Thedas for it's own good, at least in their mind.

This is pretty much my understanding of the Qunari as well.

How can you blame them? They come from a culture that uphelds selfless ideals with each person working together to support there system. How would some from that react to a place where everyone one is too busy clawing there way to the top to ****** on everyone else to see how messed up everything is? 

I never said I do blame them. It's my understanding that they feel their way of life is the only one worth living, and they use it as justification to spread the Qun. Just like it is also my understanding that the Chantry believes the Maker will return if the Chant is sung from all corners of the world and use that as justification to spread the Chant of Light.

How they choose to spread their philosophy/religion however, is another matter.

Ironicly, how they do it is almost the same as the chantry in the past.

[dragonflight288]

Ironicly, how they do it is almost the same as the chantry in the past.

True. The qun and chantry should start a club where they slaughter each other to prove their point. lol.

[leaguer of one]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Ironicly, how they do it is almost the same as the chantry in the past.

True. The qun and chantry should start a club where they slaughter each other to prove their point. lol.

Yay. The might makes right club......<_<

[Medhia Nox]

Every ideal in history has been spread through violence.

[dragonflight288]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Every ideal in history has been spread through violence.

Not every ideal. There have actually been some peaceful cultures that have arisen throughout history....

They usually end up getting swallowed up by more war-mongering and violent ones, but peaceful cultures have risen up of their own accord as well.

[Medhia Nox]

@dragonflight288: That's not the spreading of an ideal however.

Whole continents of people have been wiped out in our world in the name of some of the loftiest ideals our world claims to have. 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 31 octobre 2013 - 04:56 .

[dragonflight288]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@dragonflight288: That's not the spreading of an ideal however.

Whole continents of people have been wiped out in our world in the name of some of the loftiest ideals our world claims to have. 

Some religions have spread their ideals strictly through peaceful missionary work then. Many have not, but many have.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I think, theoretically at least, that if the Qunari ever encountered another society that they deemed just as capable as their own, then they would let that society be. However, that is highly improbable, since I doubt the Qunari would ever view another society as their equal. But at least theoretically.

They would have to encounter a society that shares many of their views then. If they are more free with their mages, the Qunari will dismiss their capacity to control it. I say this from a Sten and Morrigan dialogue.

Sten: I wish you people had a proper, civilized way to deal with magic.

I suppose that would depend on just how much control this theoretical society would be exerting on magic. If they had truly mastered magic and removed all the drawbacks, I'm pretty damn sure then the Qunari would admire them for their mastery.

[Silfren]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@dragonflight288: That's not the spreading of an ideal however.

Whole continents of people have been wiped out in our world in the name of some of the loftiest ideals our world claims to have. 

Some religions have spread their ideals strictly through peaceful missionary work then. Many have not, but many have.

Sadly, it's more accurate to say that certain factions within some religions have spread their ideals through peaceful missionary work.

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I think, theoretically at least, that if the Qunari ever encountered another society that they deemed just as capable as their own, then they would let that society be. However, that is highly improbable, since I doubt the Qunari would ever view another society as their equal. But at least theoretically.

They would have to encounter a society that shares many of their views then. If they are more free with their mages, the Qunari will dismiss their capacity to control it. I say this from a Sten and Morrigan dialogue.

Sten: I wish you people had a proper, civilized way to deal with magic.

I suppose that would depend on just how much control this theoretical society would be exerting on magic. If they had truly mastered magic and removed all the drawbacks, I'm pretty damn sure then the Qunari would admire them for their mastery.

I'm given to suspect that the Qunari would find it quite difficult to believe that true mastery had been achieved.  They are so uniquely convinced that their methods are the only ones that work I can't see them willingly believing any technique that wasn't identical was nevertheless effective.  Indeed, the obvious answer for any Qunari upon hearing that magic had been properly contained and was no danger to anyone, would be "Yet."

[EmperorSahlertz]

Yea they are a pessimistic bunch, but I was talking in hypotheticals here. My point is that Qunari takes issue with what they percieve as inferiority. That must therefore also mean that if they were ever to encounter a society that they didn't deem inferior, that they then wouldn't try to convert it.

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Yea they are a pessimistic bunch, but I was talking in hypotheticals here. My point is that Qunari takes issue with what they percieve as inferiority. That must therefore also mean that if they were ever to encounter a society that they didn't deem inferior, that they then wouldn't try to convert it.

The caveat here being that the Qunari are predisposed to thinking that any society which does not follow the Qun is automatically inferior, so it is definitely true that the only societies which they didn't dismiss as such would be those that were already very similar to theirs to begin with. 

That's the key, I think.  The Qunari won't ever look at a society and say of it, "I do not wish to convert them."  The closest they ever would get to that is "This society has no need of conversion."

[EmperorSahlertz]

Need/wish who cares, as long as they wouldn't actively pursue it. Again, it is all a nigh impossibility. It would basically require an entire nation consisting of nothing but Basalit-an. But for the thought experiment it works. Contrary to for example the Andrastian faith, which will never encounter another society that they will not wish to convert eventually.

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Need/wish who cares, as long as they wouldn't actively pursue it. Again, it is all a nigh impossibility. It would basically require an entire nation consisting of nothing but Basalit-an. But for the thought experiment it works. Contrary to for example the Andrastian faith, which will never encounter another society that they will not wish to convert eventually.

I see little point in hypotheticals such as these, honestly, when the practical reality means that the odds are so staggeringly against it that it's safe to disregard as an impossibility. 

And in fact I do think there's a greater likelihood for the Andrastian faith to encounter societies they don't wish to convert.  Starting with the fact that the Chantry =/= Andrastianism, but is only one sect of the faith.  The largest and most influential currently, yes, but that nevertheless does not rule out the fact that Andrastianism is a broader term that encompasses more than the orthodox Chantry. 

From the start we know that both the White and Black Chantries teach considerably different flavors of Chantry doctrine, and beyond those two we hear that Rivain's Chantry faith is considerably more progressive...and of course there is always Haven to consider.  The same could be said of the Qun (Rivain, again), but I do think that between the two, the Andrastian religion is more easily given to evolving than the Qun.

The schism that is happening right now is a prime example of the orthodox Chantry being set up to be forced to change or die, in fact.  It is more than just a hypothetical thought experiment that Chantryism may be forced to reinvent itself, and forfeit its imperialistic ambitions, in order just to survive at all.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Rivain Chantry is the same as the White Chantry. And the only major differences between the Black and the White Chantry is that the black interprets "Magic is meant to serve man, and never to rule him" differently, and that they allow for men to achieve higher ranks within the Chantry.

And the comming time of crisis won't weaken the Chantry necessarily. Hell, times of crisis are known to see a soaring rise in faithful. "No atheist in a foxhole" and all that. They might struggle to maintain the same military power as they once had, but they can gain influence in other areas.