1420 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

So, you need a mage? Possibly a blood mage? An Annulment is supposed to only be called in a situation in which none of the mages present can be trusted.

Then get a mage outside the current Circle.

Which quest is this, and can we be sure that its universalizable? It might well be specific to Vengeance, or more likely Vengeance and Rage demons. A Pride Demon might have the brains to pass for human, if only long enough to grab and kill the Templar doing that scan. (If Templars can even do it themselves.)

Enemies Among Us again.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think Anders would probably know what he's doing in that scenario. He is an abomination after all.

[Star fury]

Chantry's portrayal looks authentic for a feudal institution. Oppression of mages, Exalted Marches against elves, it's all pretty normal for medieval religion with it's fair share of fanatics and zealots. I'd even say we need to see more  religious fanatics, for now Chantry looks very moderate.

Modifié par Star fury, 22 octobre 2013 - 04:33 .

[leaguer of one]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Anders can do it also

Anders does the force push, not the blood scan.

From the wiki


"If Merrill or Anders are present when Hawke rescues Keran, Hawke can ask them to verify if Keran is possessed. Both of them will state that he is safe"

Again , Anders just shoots magic at the guy. He checked for a reaction, Merrill actually sensed if he was a abonbination not.

[movieguyabw]

First impressions are everything.  Early instances involving the Chantry in Origins tended to paint them as either corrupt, or ineffectual.  The Mage origin begins by explaining that mages are locked away, like prisoners, under careful scrutiny of the Templars, who represent the Chantry.  The very first thing that happens is you are told by a Templar that if you fail the Harrowing, you will be executed.

The City Elf origin introduces you to the chantry, through the priest who is marrying you off.  When the nobles show up, she tells them something to the effect that they can't do anything because this is a sacred union.  She is immediately smacked, knocked out, and taken to be raped.  When she finally wakes up (if you're playing a female character) she immediately panics, despite your attempts to calm her down, and when she tries to escape she is cut down by one of the guards.

Add to this everything we come to find out about the Chantry throughout the rest of the game; how they keep their Templars addicted to Lyrium in order to keep them on a tight leash, how they were responsible for wiping out most of the Dalish, etc.  -  throw in characters like Leliana and Wynne, who despite being supporters of the Chantry, tell you it's in major need of reform,  and yes, throw in a few priests who give you an attitude in Ostagar, and it's easy to see why people generally don't like them.

Modifié par movieguyabw, 22 octobre 2013 - 04:26 .

[Steelcan]

leaguer of one wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Anders can do it also

Anders does the force push, not the blood scan.

From the wiki


"If Merrill or Anders are present when Hawke rescues Keran, Hawke can ask them to verify if Keran is possessed. Both of them will state that he is safe"

Again , Anders just shoots magic at the guy. He checked for a reaction, Merrill actually sensed if he was a abonbination not.

Like someone else said, I'll take the actual abominations word for it.  merrill has some rose tinted glasses when it comes to this.  All the demon has to do is call itself a spirit and Merrill would fight to the death to defend it.

Modifié par Steelcan, 22 octobre 2013 - 04:28 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

So, you need a mage? Possibly a blood mage? An Annulment is supposed to only be called in a situation in which none of the mages present can be trusted.

Then get a mage outside the current Circle.

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Which quest is this, and can we be sure that its universalizable? It might well be specific to Vengeance, or more likely Vengeance and Rage demons. A Pride Demon might have the brains to pass for human, if only long enough to grab and kill the Templar doing that scan. (If Templars can even do it themselves.)

Enemies Among Us again.

Like I said, I've read the previous responses. That solution is elegant, but assumes that the demon suspected of inhabiting the host is stupid. And there at the time, since the demon in Connor specifically leaves him for a time if asked to.

[Xilizhra]

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

[leaguer of one]

movieguyabw wrote...

"First impressions are everything.  Early instances involving the Chantry in Origins tended to paint them as either corrupt, or ineffectual.  The Mage origin begins by explaining that mages are locked away, like prisoners, under careful scrutiny of the Templars, who represent the Chantry.  The very first thing that happens is you are told by a Templar that if you fail the Harrowing, you will be executed."


As promage/circle as I am even I can see the Harrowing is nessary.


"The City Elf origin introduces you to the chantry, through the priest who is marrying you off.  When the nobles show up, she tells them something to the effect that they can't do anything because this is a sacred union.  She is immediately smacked, knocked out, and taken to be raped.  When she finally wakes up (if you're playing a female character) she immediately panics, despite your attempts to calm her down, and when she tries to escape she is cut down by one of the guards.

Add to this everything we come to find out about the Chantry throughout the rest of the game; how they keep their Templars addicted to Lyrium in order to keep them on a tight leash, how they were responsible for wiping out most of the Dalish, etc.  -  throw in characters like Leliana and Wynne, who despite being supporters of the Chantry, tell you it's in major need of reform,  and yes, throw in a few priests who give you an attitude in Ostagar, and it's easy to see why people generally don't like them."

Agree with this 100%.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

And if they happen to go all abominationy while you are out looking for an apostate or even another Circle mage?

[HiroVoid]

movieguyabw wrote...

First impressions are everything.  Early instances involving the Chantry in Origins tended to paint them as either corrupt, or ineffectual.  The Mage origin begins by explaining that mages are locked away, like prisoners, under careful scrutiny of the Templars, who represent the Chantry.  The very first thing that happens is you are told by a Templar that if you fail the Harrowing, you will be executed.

The City Elf origin introduces you to the chantry, through the priest who is marrying you off.  When the nobles show up, she tells them something to the effect that they can't do anything because this is a sacred union.  She is immediately smacked, knocked out, and taken to be raped.  When she finally wakes up (if you're playing a female character) she immediately panics, despite your attempts to calm her down, and when she tries to escape she is cut down by one of the guards.

Add to this everything we come to find out about the Chantry throughout the rest of the game; how they keep their Templars addicted to Lyrium in order to keep them on a tight leash, how they were responsible for wiping out most of the Dalish, etc.  -  throw in characters like Leliana and Wynne, who despite being supporters of the Chantry, tell you it's in major need of reform,  and yes, throw in a few priests who give you an attitude in Ostagar, and it's easy to see why people generally don't like them.

City Elf Origin - That's a different elven character actually.
Templars - Lyrium is apparently needed actually as Alistair in the comics apparently talks about taking lyrium again to use his abilities.

[leaguer of one]

Steelcan wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Anders can do it also

Anders does the force push, not the blood scan.

From the wiki


"If Merrill or Anders are present when Hawke rescues Keran, Hawke can ask them to verify if Keran is possessed. Both of them will state that he is safe"

Again , Anders just shoots magic at the guy. He checked for a reaction, Merrill actually sensed if he was a abonbination not.

Like someone else said, I'll take the actual abominations word for it.  merrill has some rose tinted glasses when it comes to this.  All the demon has to do is call itself a spirit and Merrill would fight to the death to defend it.

So to have the benifit  of sensing abombination you have to be one....That's like saying  to have the benifit  of  sensing zombies you have to be a zombie...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

And are you going to watch them day and night while the foreign mages travel using only medieval technology? This only works if the mages really are innocent. If there's even one abomination, the fun could very quickly start again and you have fewer surviving (to whatever extent a Tranquil can be called such) mages to show.

Not to mention the fact that for a Templar to offer a mage a chance to surrender in a situation bad enough to merit an Annulment could very easily be a death sentence.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 22 octobre 2013 - 04:34 .

[leaguer of one]

movieguyabw wrote...




City Elf Origin - That's a different elven character actually.

Ether way the chantry does nothing as elves get raped, main character or not.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 22 octobre 2013 - 04:33 .

[Steelcan]

leaguer of one wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Anders can do it also

Anders does the force push, not the blood scan.

From the wiki


"If Merrill or Anders are present when Hawke rescues Keran, Hawke can ask them to verify if Keran is possessed. Both of them will state that he is safe"

Again , Anders just shoots magic at the guy. He checked for a reaction, Merrill actually sensed if he was a abonbination not.

Like someone else said, I'll take the actual abominations word for it.  merrill has some rose tinted glasses when it comes to this.  All the demon has to do is call itself a spirit and Merrill would fight to the death to defend it.

So to have the benifit  of sensing abombination you have to be one....That's like saying  to have the benifit  of  sensing zombies you have to be a zombie...

bad analogy is bad

[movieguyabw]

leaguer of one wrote...

As promage/circle as I am even I can see the Harrowing is nessary.

Not saying it isn't.  (well, at least, that's not what I was getting at with my earlier post )

My point was the very first interaction we have with anyone in the Mage origin is with a representative of the Chantry telling us, in plain english, "Do this or die."

That is the very first impression of the life you live as a mage, and the very little context we get prior, doesn't really soften that.

[Xilizhra]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

And are you going to watch them day and night while the foreign mages travel using only medieval technology? This only works if the mages really are innocent. If there's even one abomination, the fun could very quickly start again and you have fewer surviving (to whatever extent a Tranquil can be called such) mages to show.

Not to mention the fact that for a Templar to offer a mage a chance to surrender in a situation bad enough to merit an Annulment could very easily be a death sentence.

I never said it would be easy, but I'm not going to allow for killing innocents out of expedience.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

And are you going to watch them day and night while the foreign mages travel using only medieval technology? This only works if the mages really are innocent. If there's even one abomination, the fun could very quickly start again and you have fewer surviving (to whatever extent a Tranquil can be called such) mages to show.

Not to mention the fact that for a Templar to offer a mage a chance to surrender in a situation bad enough to merit an Annulment could very easily be a death sentence.

I never said it would be easy, but I'm not going to allow for killing innocents out of expedience.

So when you come back and there is a pile of bodies and an abomination standing there?

Modifié par Steelcan, 22 octobre 2013 - 04:36 .

[leaguer of one]

Steelcan wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Anders can do it also

Anders does the force push, not the blood scan.

From the wiki


"If Merrill or Anders are present when Hawke rescues Keran, Hawke can ask them to verify if Keran is possessed. Both of them will state that he is safe"

Again , Anders just shoots magic at the guy. He checked for a reaction, Merrill actually sensed if he was a abonbination not.

Like someone else said, I'll take the actual abominations word for it.  merrill has some rose tinted glasses when it comes to this.  All the demon has to do is call itself a spirit and Merrill would fight to the death to defend it.

So to have the benifit  of sensing abombination you have to be one....That's like saying  to have the benifit  of  sensing zombies you have to be a zombie...

bad analogy is bad

No it's not. You point is because he is an abonbination he's the best person to find them.... Which misses the point as we are trying to stop more abonbination from being made. So in context you are saying for mages to find abonbinations they must become abombinations.

That's just digging the hole deeper.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

And are you going to watch them day and night while the foreign mages travel using only medieval technology? This only works if the mages really are innocent. If there's even one abomination, the fun could very quickly start again and you have fewer surviving (to whatever extent a Tranquil can be called such) mages to show.

Not to mention the fact that for a Templar to offer a mage a chance to surrender in a situation bad enough to merit an Annulment could very easily be a death sentence.

I never said it would be easy, but I'm not going to allow for killing innocents out of expedience.

Be ready to lose the non-innocents and less-innocents charged with protecting them.

[leaguer of one]

movieguyabw wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

As promage/circle as I am even I can see the Harrowing is nessary.

Not saying it isn't.  (well, at least, that's not what I was getting at with my earlier post )

My point was the very first interaction we have with anyone in the Mage origin is with a representative of the Chantry telling us, in plain english, "Do this or die."

That is the very first impression of the life you live as a mage, and the very little context we get prior, doesn't really soften that.

Ok, good point.

[Xilizhra]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

And are you going to watch them day and night while the foreign mages travel using only medieval technology? This only works if the mages really are innocent. If there's even one abomination, the fun could very quickly start again and you have fewer surviving (to whatever extent a Tranquil can be called such) mages to show.

Not to mention the fact that for a Templar to offer a mage a chance to surrender in a situation bad enough to merit an Annulment could very easily be a death sentence.

I never said it would be easy, but I'm not going to allow for killing innocents out of expedience.

Be ready to lose the non-innocents and less-innocents charged with protecting them.

Mages don't choose their powers; templars do choose their role. And I see, if they're to exist at all, their primary role to be protecting mages from demons, not killing mages to preempt demonic risk.

[Steelcan]

leaguer of one wrote...

No it's not. You point is because he is an abonbination he's the best person to find them.... Which misses the point as we are trying to stop more abonbination from being made. So in context you are saying for mages to find abonbinations they must become abombinations.

That's just digging the hole deeper.

There's a very key difference bewteen abominations and zom bies, let me see if you can guess it.  After that you should realize why where I am going.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not even slightly practical. If you have the time for that, Annulment should not have been called.

Presumably by this point you've killed the abominations and are watching the surviving mages, while things have calmed down.

And are you going to watch them day and night while the foreign mages travel using only medieval technology? This only works if the mages really are innocent. If there's even one abomination, the fun could very quickly start again and you have fewer surviving (to whatever extent a Tranquil can be called such) mages to show.

Not to mention the fact that for a Templar to offer a mage a chance to surrender in a situation bad enough to merit an Annulment could very easily be a death sentence.

I never said it would be easy, but I'm not going to allow for killing innocents out of expedience.

Be ready to lose the non-innocents and less-innocents charged with protecting them.

Mages don't choose their powers; templars do choose their role. And I see, if they're to exist at all, their primary role to be protecting mages from demons, not killing mages to preempt demonic risk.

So the templars should stop demons from possesing them.... how?  And what of average Joe?  Who looks out for him?