192 réponses à ce sujet

[pablosplinter]

EJ107 wrote...



Moaning for the sake of moaning is pathetic, and something that I really can't stand. 

I totally agree, but it annoys me more when any form of criticism is written of as such.....my comment was more directed at the title; "why the hate from supposed fans"...as if fans were just expected to accept anything that a company does, and some of the comments from the thread than the linked video(who reads youtube comments anyway ffs?!).

I expressed a genuine concern over a feature that was announced in the game a few months back, and was met with comments to the tune of "people moaning already" etc(can't remember what exactly, something about previous choices I think, but it was buried in an otherwise positive post)

[Wozearly]

pablosplinter wrote...

I totally agree, but it annoys me more when any form of criticism is written of as such.....

Yup. Been on the receiving end of that too in the past.

There's a tendency for both sides of the fanbase here to get a little protective of things they like.

The DA2 fans, who everyone knows represent the huge majority of DA series players, sometimes seem concerned that there's a tiny minority of DA:O fans sitting on the outside trying to widdle over their party by making vocal arguments against things in DA2 that they didn't like...which often gets slapped down as moaning or trolling.

On the other hand, you have the DA2 detractors, who everyone knows represent the huge majority of DA series players, maintaining a sustained and vocal criticism of things they don't like, because lapsing into silence might lead to a second DA2. They're often intolerant of the tiny minority of massive DA2 fans whose praise for disliked features gets in the way, and implies widespread resistance, and so cannot be allowed to be spoken unchallenged.

Meanwhile, there's people who liked both games, or who no longer associate themselves with either side, wondering when the firefight will stop so they can get on with giving praise and/or criticism without being targeted by whichever side of the fanbase takes objection.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Looked at the video. Considering most of the people,

1. Commented multiple times to express their message of negativity in spam like fashion.
2. Often gave no reason for why they think it sucked.
3. Few reasons given were vague and often with poor grammar

I'm going to chalk them up as trolling because it's fun.

[Bugsie]

I see no hate, only the disillusioned contempt of a lover.  Like many here, they hang in, hoping that their supposedly lying cheating partner is reformed, the tight grasp at any straws never weakening their resolve to stay until the grim end. Hoping, just hoping they can glimpse the relationship as it was in it's former glory, that the person they see now is only a mirage.

Actually, I'll just put it down to dumb, ill thought or just plain trolling you tube comments that you can't take seriously.

/actually looking forward to DA:I

[Fast Jimmy]

Wozearly wrote...

The DA2 fans, who everyone knows represent the huge majority of DA series players, sometimes seem concerned that there's a tiny minority of DA:O fans sitting on the outside trying to widdle over their party by making vocal arguments against things in DA2 that they didn't like...which often gets slapped down as moaning or trolling.

On the other hand, you have the DA2 detractors, who everyone knows represent the huge majority of DA series players, maintaining a sustained and vocal criticism of things they don't like, because lapsing into silence might lead to a second DA2. They're often intolerant of the tiny minority of massive DA2 fans whose praise for disliked features gets in the way, and implies widespread resistance, and so cannot be allowed to be spoken unchallenged.

Meanwhile, there's people who liked both games, or who no longer associate themselves with either side, wondering when the firefight will stop so they can get on with giving praise and/or criticism without being targeted by whichever side of the fanbase takes objection.

To be fair, there's an argument to be made that when you compare DA:O sales and reviews (both fan and critical) to DA2 sales and reviews (again, both fan and critical) that the number of DA2 detractors (or at least those who thought it was not as good of a game as DA:O) WAS a majority - possibly a majority of over a million, which (to me) would be "huge," given that it represented over 30-40% of the 4+ million units sold for DA:O.

It is always dicey trying to justify things with numbers (especially numbers we don't have solid grasps on), but I would say a pretty solid case could be made that even if DA2 made money and sold well according to Bioware's projections and expectations, it was still viewed negatively by a larger portion of the total "Dragon Age fanbase" (if we assume that is anyone who has bought a DA game ever). 

I realize that vocal DA2 bashers (myself included sometimes) are who you are talking about here, not just people who saw it had flaws but may have also liked it, just liked it less than DA:O... but I feel that is simply a difference in personality or perspective rather than these people being a truly smaller number.

[Melca36]

Wozearly wrote...

pablosplinter wrote...

I totally agree, but it annoys me more when any form of criticism is written of as such.....

Yup. Been on the receiving end of that too in the past.

There's a tendency for both sides of the fanbase here to get a little protective of things they like.

The DA2 fans, who everyone knows represent the huge majority of DA series players, sometimes seem concerned that there's a tiny minority of DA:O fans sitting on the outside trying to widdle over their party by making vocal arguments against things in DA2 that they didn't like...which often gets slapped down as moaning or trolling.

On the other hand, you have the DA2 detractors, who everyone knows represent the huge majority of DA series players, maintaining a sustained and vocal criticism of things they don't like, because lapsing into silence might lead to a second DA2. They're often intolerant of the tiny minority of massive DA2 fans whose praise for disliked features gets in the way, and implies widespread resistance, and so cannot be allowed to be spoken unchallenged.

Meanwhile, there's people who liked both games, or who no longer associate themselves with either side, wondering when the firefight will stop so they can get on with giving praise and/or criticism without being targeted by whichever side of the fanbase takes objection.

Um..the fan division is about 50-50. There is NO majority.

[Melca36]

animedreamer wrote...

 

I just watched the above link and saw for me some new gameplay from the up and coming title DA:I, I was amazed/blown away by this and of course my anticipation has only grown but I couldn't help but break of the rule of youtube and not read the comments as I like to see like minded individuals and share in the enthusiam for the videos, yet I quite a bit of hate for a game that's still not complete or released yet and a lot of the blame people are throwning around as well nonsense.

One person was saying how they ruined this game, and my immediate reply was "What are you comparing this too?"

Another was blaming EA and saying they should have left this to someone like Ubisoft, I had no reply because I was like "What the hell have they made that was so impressive RPG wise?" not to mention BioWare is the one developing the game EA is their publisher or am I mistaken? 

To me money speaks louder than words and BioWare/EA have obviously be quite successful in getting my money, Ubisoft hasn't seen one cent from me and I don't see that changing anytime soon, and that's based purely on the types and quality of games each company releases.

DA2 was a fun game but it was a rushed game and the quality shows. From the dozen fetch and deliver quests to enemies materializing out of the ceiling...it was a mess. Sure it has some fantastic characters but the game was rushed.

The fact that it sold half of what Origins sold proves this point.  

I didnt hate it. I rated it a 7/10 but I can also understand why people feel burned. 

I am happy they are taking the time with Inquisition.

[Lebanese Dude]

 I wouldn't put too much stock in YouTube comments and even BSN comments.

I'm not discounting their value but most opinions are very poorly made here.

I still get a little irked when people here call Mass Effect 3 a horrible game due to the ending while ignoring the other 99.99% of the game. Then I remember my more casual friends who played the game and loved it. Granted we all played after EC was released but that still doesn't excuse a badly formed opinion from many posters here.



You have to remember that the vocal population is a very small minority and sometimes people's passion for a game makes them forget the journey.

Modifié par Lebdood, 24 octobre 2013 - 07:40 .

[Allan Schumacher]

General statment:

When dealing with nebulous data, confirmation bias will run rampant. Doubly so because people (as human beings) have a tendency to affiliate with people of similar interests. As such, people will "not know anyone" that did/did not like DA2 better than DAO and vice versa.

Simply be respectful to others that may have a different perspective, and understand that it is okay to not feel a need to justify your position by conjuring numbers. Further, also acknowledge that there's a good chance that people overestimate the concern presented by there being a dissenting voice. I often get the impression that people really see differing opinions as a significant threat to the game they want, and as such wage "wars" to rally people to their side or to even simply try to silence the others so that only their voice is heard.

After all, if 100% of the people on the BSN said "We want specifically a game like DAO (or DA2)" it's easy to deduce "BioWare would have to make a game like DAO/DA2 then!"


As for "the hate?" Some people won't like the direction for whatever reason. Someone is free to feel that and for that reason alone, there's not much reason to overthink it or anything.

[Mr. Homebody]

Melca36 wrote...

Um..the fan division is about 50-50. There is NO majority. 

I doubt that we can know exactly what percentage of players are fans / haters / neutral. A lot of people simply don't present their opinion on Internet.

Melca36 wrote...

DA2 was a fun game but it was a rushed game and the quality shows. From the dozen fetch and deliver quests to enemies materializing out of the ceiling...it was a mess. Sure it has some fantastic characters but the game was rushed.

The fact that it sold half of what Origins sold proves this point.  

I didnt hate it. I rated it a 7/10 but I can also understand why people feel burned. 

I am happy they are taking the time with Inquisition.

I couldn't agree more. My opinion on fetch quests is very negative, both in Da 2 and ME 3. I feel strange when champion of Kirkwall has to work as an delivery guy. It is even worse with Shepard, who basically has to spy on people and in the end magically deliver what is needed out of the sky. I definitely prefer fewer but more developed quests (and with some storyline).

Enemies falling from the sky is a nightmare in DA 2. It is so absurd, especially when is happening on the open ground.

Yet the essence of Bioware games is still there. Interesting characters (although I don't know what is Final Fantasy character doing here...I mean Fenris), tactical combat, Protagonist of our own creation (though this is limited almost like in ME 3 unfortunatelly). Not the best Bioware game and definitely rushed but still a good game.

Modifié par Mr. Homebody, 24 octobre 2013 - 08:18 .

[Maria Caliban]

animedreamer wrote...

... I was amazed/blown away by this and of course my anticipation has only grown but I couldn't help but break of the rule of youtube and not read the comments as I like to see like minded individuals and share in the enthusiam for the videos, yet I quite a bit of hate for a game that's still not complete or released yet and a lot of the blame people are throwning around as well nonsense.

There's your problem. You read the youtube comments. This is a bit like licking the bottom of your shoe and then wondering why you have a nasty taste in your mouth.

[HSomCokeSniper]

animedreamer wrote...

 *snip* I couldn't help but break of the rule of youtube and not read the comments *snip*

Well you asked and you answered. 

Everybody hates everything on Youtube comments.

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It is always dicey trying to justify things with numbers (especially numbers we don't have solid grasps on), but I would say a pretty solid case could be made that even if DA2 made money and sold well according to Bioware's projections and expectations, it was still viewed negatively by a larger portion of the total "Dragon Age fanbase" (if we assume that is anyone who has bought a DA game ever). 

And how many people is that? Since we don't know how much overlap there is between DA2 and DAO buyers (probably a lot), nor the amount of people who bought and liked/didn't like each particular game, I'd say coming to any such conclusion is dicey indeed.

I'd say it is fairly easy to make a generalization that DA2 was not as well received as Origins. 

DA:O, with all of its ancillary products, sold between 4 and 5 million units, of that we can be sure. If you look at the twenty largest game review sites, you'd without a doubt see consistent ratings that put it in the top 15 or 20th percentile of ratings, across both professional and fan review sites (such as Metacritic). 

DA2, again, with all of its ancillary products, sold between 2 and 3 million units, of that we can be sure. If you look at the same twenty review sites, you'd also see consistent ratings that put it in the top 30 or 40th percentile of ratings. 

A game's quality cannot be judged by sales or review scores, but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about sheer numbers of people who disliked the DA2 approach over the DA:O. Of that, I can say there is serious statistical data that can back that statement up.


Now... WHY that could be is a VERY difficult statement to answer. If you point to the lower sales and ratings and say "this is due to Bioware using a voiced protagonist for their fantasy RPG games," then you'd be grasping at straws, because there is not (nearly) enough data to make that claim. 

But to say that millions of people that either purchased DA2 (or didn't like what they saw enough to buy it) liked what DA:O did over (or at least what they perceived) DA2 did isn't a stretch of any facts or numbers. It's like saying a politician winning an election by a landslide wasn't necessarily the most favored or popular candidate - sure, there's a remote possibility that it is true, but it defies nearly all the numbers, feedback and public discourse available that one could use to make that conclusion.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 24 octobre 2013 - 01:01 .

[Thomas Andresen]

There's your problem. You read the youtube comments. This is a bit like licking the bottom of your shoe and then wondering why you have a nasty taste in your mouth.

A bit of an understatement, don't you think?

[LinksOcarina]

Because people have opinions, and nine times out of then they think their opinions are right all the time.

The internet really opened that rabbit hole for ignorance, soap-box preaching, general arrogant replys from know it all grognards who think they know a better way and are superior to what is being made.

In the end, **** the haters. If you play the game and like it, thats that. It is all about taste in the end. There are things to like and hate about anything, but overall enjoyment is pretty critical in an analysis. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 24 octobre 2013 - 02:39 .

[cjones91]

Morocco Mole wrote...

You know, BSN is the only real place on the internet I ever see people actually defend DA2 on.

Yeah,every other place the defenders are a minority and are quickly shut down.

[AlexanderCousland]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

There's your problem. You read the youtube comments. This is a bit like licking the bottom of your shoe and then wondering why you have a nasty taste in your mouth.

A bit of an understatement, don't you think?

I think that's a silly statement. There is a lot of positive comments on videos that are liked on youtube. The thing people need to concern themselves with is WHEN there is ALOT of negativity, because if negativity seems to be the consensus on a particular video, there is probably a legitimate reason why.

[Angrywolves]

There's Gaider's The BSN is Toxic interview .
People should read it.
Of course he never should have said it publically.
Whether it's youtube, the BSN, or other gaming forums, there are EA haters, there are Bioware haters, albeit it seems mostly for ME3 and not for DA2 and there are skeptics who believe Bioware has gone down due to EA , its best days are behind it and it can never get back to it's glory days.
Comments by former Bioware employees that things changed after EA bought the company don't help.
I will admit I was a skeptic , didn't think they Bioware could turn things around , but I've changed my mind. I'm excited about DAI, not some of the graphics /characters' faces, but everything else looks very good and I expect DAI to be a big success.
And that will be a good thing.

[Fast Jimmy]

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You know, BSN is the only real place on the internet I ever see people actually defend DA2 on.

Yeah,every other place the defenders are a minority and are quickly shut down.

The fact (or, at least, perception) that the only place the "defenders" are in large enough supply to defend a game  and not be a "minority" is the game company's own website may be something to think about. 

[Xilizhra]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You know, BSN is the only real place on the internet I ever see people actually defend DA2 on.

Yeah,every other place the defenders are a minority and are quickly shut down.

The fact (or, at least, perception) that the only place the "defenders" are in large enough supply to defend a game  and not be a "minority" is the game company's own website may be something to think about. 

Yes, it's "don't rush schedules," which they already learned.