160 réponses à ce sujet

[Trolldrool]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Also, just like to add, the Grey Wardens don't kidnap. In the Calling when Duncan was taken by the Wardens he had to agree to go with them. If he had refused he would have stayed in the cell to die.

In DAO, yeah Duncan had to force you because otherwise there was no game. It was a game mechanic.

Game mechanics have implications on the lore. If I'm the heir to one of Ferelden's teyrnirs I've got better things to do than slay Darkspawn: I need to get my family affairs in order and kill Howe. But because Duncan forces me to go along with him, Howe has time to be made arl of Denerim and everything is that much harder.

That "better things to do" would involve getting caught by howe's men and tortured to death in a dungeon. If you think your going to manage to kill all of howe's men, his off the record allies, and him all without help from anyone, your deluded.

And if you think your going to manage to find allies before howe finds you without going with duncan in that scene, your even more deluded than I gave you credit for.

If Duncan didn't force the Cousland PC to go to Ostagar, he would go to Denerim before Maric died, before Howe was appointed Arl of Denerim. Presumably there are legal avenues for restitution in Ferelden other then "stab dudes".

Considering both Loghain and Cailan were already at Ostagar when the Couslands are attacked, going to Denerim before Cailan dies would change absolutely nothing since Loghain would still abandon Cailan to the darkspawn and support Howe when he got back.

Which would mean one lone Cousland in Denerim making accusations against Arl Howe with almost noone else to support his claim, and without a single doubt not nearly as many allies as Loghain could provide Howe with. That would work well. Justice doesn't really stand a chance in corrupt politics.

Edit: Thanks for making me aware of the wrong name, Darth.

Modifié par Trolldrool, 23 octobre 2013 - 09:16 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Trolldrool wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Also, just like to add, the Grey Wardens don't kidnap. In the Calling when Duncan was taken by the Wardens he had to agree to go with them. If he had refused he would have stayed in the cell to die.

In DAO, yeah Duncan had to force you because otherwise there was no game. It was a game mechanic.

Game mechanics have implications on the lore. If I'm the heir to one of Ferelden's teyrnirs I've got better things to do than slay Darkspawn: I need to get my family affairs in order and kill Howe. But because Duncan forces me to go along with him, Howe has time to be made arl of Denerim and everything is that much harder.

That "better things to do" would involve getting caught by howe's men and tortured to death in a dungeon. If you think your going to manage to kill all of howe's men, his off the record allies, and him all without help from anyone, your deluded.

And if you think your going to manage to find allies before howe finds you without going with duncan in that scene, your even more deluded than I gave you credit for.

If Duncan didn't force the Cousland PC to go to Ostagar, he would go to Denerim before Maric died, before Howe was appointed Arl of Denerim. Presumably there are legal avenues for restitution in Ferelden other then "stab dudes".

Considering both Loghain and Maric were already at Ostagar when the Couslands are attacked, going to Denerim before Maric dies would change absolutely nothing since Loghain would still abandon Maric to the darkspawn and support Howe when he got back.

Which would mean one lone Cousland in Denerim making accusations against Arl Howe with almost noone else to support his claim, and without a single doubt not nearly as many allies as Loghain could provide Howe with. That would work well. Justice doesn't really stand a chance in corrupt politics.

You give cousland pc too much credit. As soon as he starts talking up, howe's payed off guards will have already captured and taken him to the dungeon. He'd need to go into hiding, or somewhere where howe doesn't have any influence. And considering he managed to slaughter the arl of highever and all his forces without any real resistence to him, that should tell you just how powerful the arl of ameranthine is in ferelden. And one child is going to be able to stop him, with his brother all the way in ostagar, and howe positioned to become arl of denerim as well, since the kendells line is going to be taken out of the picture no matter what.

Additionally, it's cailan, not maric.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 23 octobre 2013 - 11:17 .

[AresKeith]

Taleroth wrote...

I agree and have said as much for quite some time. The entire setup is bordering on madness. I don't even know how they've survived as long as they have without massive desertion and traitors.

I mean, to get people to join, they conscript them against their will, force them to drink poisonous blood, and then once that's all over, if they survive...

What precisely is to stop them from running to the local chantry or governing body and spilling the beans?

Well if they did and the Grey Wardens are no more, who's gonna stop deal with the Darkspawn and Archdemon

Not all of the Grey Wardens who joined were conscripted against their will, some of them actually volunteered on their own 

[Aaleel]

Taleroth wrote...

I agree and have said as much for quite some time. The entire setup is bordering on madness. I don't even know how they've survived as long as they have without massive desertion and traitors.

I mean, to get people to join, they conscript them against their will, force them to drink poisonous blood, and then once that's all over, if they survive...

What precisely is to stop them from running to the local chantry or governing body and spilling the beans?

Not true at all, not all Wardens were forced in.  Look at Dragon Age Origins, Duncan came recruiting and Sir Gilmore was honored to be in consideration to join the Wardens.  Their name is held in high regard for the most part. 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Foshizzlin wrote...

You've still not responded to my argument, bottom of page 5.

Don't hold you're breath. He's only interested in short responses he can easily reply to. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Aaleel wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

I agree and have said as much for quite some time. The entire setup is bordering on madness. I don't even know how they've survived as long as they have without massive desertion and traitors.

I mean, to get people to join, they conscript them against their will, force them to drink poisonous blood, and then once that's all over, if they survive...

What precisely is to stop them from running to the local chantry or governing body and spilling the beans?

Not true at all, not all Wardens were forced in.  Look at Dragon Age Origins, Duncan came recruiting and Sir Gilmore was honored to be in consideration to join the Wardens.  Their name is held in high regard for the most part. 

Not to mention how not everyone conscripted is done so against their will either. Looke at Daveth, Anders, or half the PC warden origins. If they hadn't joined the grey wardens their fates would have been worse off.

Acting as if the wardens break into places in the middle of the night and drag young children kicking and screaming off into the woods to eat them is just disengenous, and something this thread seems to love doing.

[Dayze]

It should be pointed out; the darkspawn being held off between blights isn't the doing of the greywardens....its the doing of the "Legion of the Dead", they appreciate the Wardens coming down but its not the wardens who make the difference.

And the idea of joining the two groups is actually a pretty good one, I mean most of the LOTD are willing to die anyways so they are perfect recruits for it.

Also spreading knowledge of how the taint works and the joining works wouldn't be a bad idea either as pointed out; if they knew how the Wardens actually detected darkspawn and knew when blights were coming....DAO would have turned out completely different.

And considering that one mage managed to expand his life by a couple centuries; consider what could have been done if multiple nations had been studying or trying to figure out more about it?

Also; considering the withheld knowledge and small number of wardens.....it is almost suicidal if any kind of natural disaster happens like a earthquake hitting a random warden keep or something and no in the country is even aware of what it takes to stop a blight....the way Wardens do things is an incredible risk.

Disbanded; maybe not but the organization could afford to be shook up a little.

[Taleroth]

AresKeith wrote...

Well if they did and the Grey Wardens are no more, who's gonna stop deal with the Darkspawn and Archdemon

Because you're confusing the organization with the capability. The organization would be no more, but not the rest of it.

[Star fury]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

You've still not responded to my argument, bottom of page 5.

Don't hold you're breath. He's only interested in short responses he can easily reply to. 

Exactly. He ignores arguments he can't address.

[Star fury]

Dayze wrote...

It should be pointed out; the darkspawn being held off between blights isn't the doing of the greywardens....its the doing of the "Legion of the Dead", they appreciate the Wardens coming down but its not the wardens who make the difference.

Legion of the Dead is too small to stop all darkspawn who attack dwarves. All dwarven army fights the darkspawn between Blights, that's the purpose of the Warrior Caste. 

[Angrywolves]

Gaider isn't going to get rid of the wardens .
The assumption that regular military could do the job is an assumption the OP made.
Obviously there's evidence to the contrary.