154 réponses à ce sujet

[Wizard of Ox]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

sabreracer wrote...

I'm not a big nuker, but the needs (or wishes) of the few (i.e, the BSN 1% of the gamebase) do not outweigh the needs of the many (i.e. everyone else)

Many PUG's cannot deal with Double Banshees without missiles. So them re-spawning again isn't going to get the game finished.

Aside from the folly of tailoring the game to the elitist desires of a few dozen players, I'd miss the threads where people dismiss score as unimportant while complaining that scrubs use missiles to inflate their scores.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive, as far as an elitist like me can understand.

That being said, having rockets not depleting the wave budget might not be the best option as many people need them to clutch waves or simply finish games. Although they souldn't count for points since it wouldn't change anything to the difficulty of the game.  

Modifié par KroGan_eRRanT, 23 octobre 2013 - 09:20 .

[LemurFromTheId]

An excellent idea!

A milder form could work, too: reduce spawn budget by 20%-50% of the full point value. That would stil make missiles useful for PUGs trying to deal with double primes/banshees (though they might have to rocket a couple of times), but spawn nuking would be inefficient.

Get compeletely rid of rocket points and killstreaks, though.

[Wizard of Ox]

Also,

Only Pyjaks nuke spawns.

[tonnactus]

Using missiles should only net point in objective rounds. So fools dont waste them on extraction to boost their score and use them when its actually necessary.

[Wizard of Ox]

tonnactus wrote...

Using missiles should only net point in objective rounds. So fools dont waste them on extraction to boost their score and use them when its actually necessary.

You mean nuking objective waves. This is even worse than using them on extraction waves as it hinders the team. 

[Ferocious Panda]

Why does everyone here care so much about score? Are you really getting mad because spawn nukers outscore you?

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Why does everyone here care so much about score? Are you really getting mad because spawn nukers outscore you?

Yo, Dawg, score doesn't matter!  So I get really angry when someone nukes a spawn on Wave 11 to raise his score, because I don't care about score!

[cato potato]

b00g13man wrote...

sabreracer wrote...

I'm not a big nuker, but the needs (or wishes) of the few (i.e, the BSN 1% of the gamebase) do not outweigh the needs of the many (i.e. everyone else)

Many PUG's cannot deal with Double Banshees without missiles. So them re-spawning again isn't going to get the game finished.

This is a valid point.

It's not really a good point at all in my opinion. Think of all the time and resources Bioware put into making Platinum and only 3% of all games are on that difficulty.  Bioware didn't have a problem catering to a very small proportion of the playerbase then.

[Wizard of Ox]

cato_84 wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

sabreracer wrote...

I'm not a big nuker, but the needs (or wishes) of the few (i.e, the BSN 1% of the gamebase) do not outweigh the needs of the many (i.e. everyone else)

Many PUG's cannot deal with Double Banshees without missiles. So them re-spawning again isn't going to get the game finished.

This is a valid point.

It's not really a good point at all in my opinion. Think of all the time and resources Bioware put into making Platinum and only 3% of all games are on that difficulty.  Bioware didn't have a problem catering to a very small proportion of the playerbase then.

Not mentionning the fact that, if you need to nuke to get to extraction, you should be playing at a lower difficulty. 

Modifié par KroGan_eRRanT, 23 octobre 2013 - 09:42 .

[cato potato]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Why does everyone here care so much about score? Are you really getting mad because spawn nukers outscore you?

Yo, Dawg, score doesn't matter!  So I get really angry when someone nukes a spawn on Wave 11 to raise his score, because I don't care about score!

The way I read it was that Nuke's idea to award no points for missile kills is designed to make spawn nuking less attractive, therefore making the game play more like it was supposed to.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Why does everyone here care so much about score? Are you really getting mad because spawn nukers outscore you?

They don't. I just find such games terribly boring, and would like them to have less of an incentive to play that way.

[bondiboy]

Good idea re points.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

tonnactus wrote...

Using missiles should only net point in objective rounds. So fools dont waste them on extraction to boost their score and use them when its actually necessary.

No. This is a very bad idea.

[Creator Limbs]

Rockets should still deplete the wave budget. But I wouldn't care if they awarded no points.

[Mikael_Sebastia]

This is actually one of the best ideas I've ever read on this forum. I hope that Bioware is taking notes for coming MPs. Still if this would ever happen to ME3 MP, I'd still like if they would also limit rockets and other consumables to anything lesser than 5 per each.

[sabreracer]

cato_84 wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

sabreracer wrote...

I'm not a big nuker, but the needs (or wishes) of the few (i.e, the BSN 1% of the gamebase) do not outweigh the needs of the many (i.e. everyone else)

Many PUG's cannot deal with Double Banshees without missiles. So them re-spawning again isn't going to get the game finished.

This is a valid point.

It's not really a good point at all in my opinion. Think of all the time and resources Bioware put into making Platinum and only 3% of all games are on that difficulty.  Bioware didn't have a problem catering to a very small proportion of the playerbase then.

But those 3% general choose to play Plat this would effect the whole playerbase not just those that want a harder challenge.  Unless it was a toggleable feature.  And when I say PUGs I'm talking about those trying to clutch a wave.

Modifié par sabreracer, 23 octobre 2013 - 11:19 .

[cato potato]

sabreracer wrote...

cato_84 wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

sabreracer wrote...

I'm not a big nuker, but the needs (or wishes) of the few (i.e, the BSN 1% of the gamebase) do not outweigh the needs of the many (i.e. everyone else)

Many PUG's cannot deal with Double Banshees without missiles. So them re-spawning again isn't going to get the game finished.

This is a valid point.

It's not really a good point at all in my opinion. Think of all the time and resources Bioware put into making Platinum and only 3% of all games are on that difficulty.  Bioware didn't have a problem catering to a very small proportion of the playerbase then.

But those 3% general choose to play Plat this would effect the whole playerbase not just those that want a harder challenge.  Unless it was a toggleable feature.  And when I say PUGs I'm talking about those trying to clutch a wave especially with an Avenger V.

Yeah, fair enough. Making it a feature that can be turned on or off would keep everyone happy.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

cato_84 wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Why does everyone here care so much about score? Are you really getting mad because spawn nukers outscore you?

Yo, Dawg, score doesn't matter!  So I get really angry when someone nukes a spawn on Wave 11 to raise his score, because I don't care about score!

The way I read it was that Nuke's idea to award no points for missile kills is designed to make spawn nuking less attractive, therefore making the game play more like it was supposed to.

I guess I'm not sure how the game was supposed to play.  If you give me a HE-tipped rocket and put a bunch of tightly-grouped, high-value targets in front of me, that sounds like a good time to pull the trigger.  Killing a large group of enemies way behind your drone escort isn't a real good idea, but neither is using Stasis on a Dragoon.  I don't necessarily expect the game mechanics to dissuade me from either decision.

I've just observed that the irritation with spawn-nukers often seems to boil down to the complaint that it's a cheap way to raise one's score.  I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy.  Yes, some people point out that there are some very bad times to blast a spawn, but the lion's share of the discontent seems to depend on score.  I wouldn't even mind that, since the scoreboard is the only quantitative way to measure participation (flawed though it may be).  But the "score isn't important, but I hate it when people use cheap tactics to raise their score" thing is a common theme.  

It would appear that I'm not the only one to make the observation.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

Rockets should still deplete the wave budget. But I wouldn't care if they awarded no points.

Yes, but if there are other things attached to points (like challenges, or XP. or mission rewards), there would be aneurysms bursting all over the world when people started hammering high-value targets.

I suppose they could just remove individual point counts entirely, but I'd bet that a lot of people who don't care about score would be very upset at a change like that.

[Creator Limbs]

Good, lets cull the herd.

[Daxamite]

Aedolon wrote...

An excellent idea!

A milder form could work, too: reduce spawn budget by 20%-50% of the full point value. That would stil make missiles useful for PUGs trying to deal with double primes/banshees (though they might have to rocket a couple of times), but spawn nuking would be inefficient.

Get compeletely rid of rocket points and killstreaks, though.

that might be a more fair compromise. 

[cato potato]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

cato_84 wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Ferocious Panda wrote...

Why does everyone here care so much about score? Are you really getting mad because spawn nukers outscore you?

Yo, Dawg, score doesn't matter!  So I get really angry when someone nukes a spawn on Wave 11 to raise his score, because I don't care about score!

The way I read it was that Nuke's idea to award no points for missile kills is designed to make spawn nuking less attractive, therefore making the game play more like it was supposed to.

I guess I'm not sure how the game was supposed to play.  If you give me a HE-tipped rocket and put a bunch of tightly-grouped, high-value targets in front of me, that sounds like a good time to pull the trigger.  Killing a large group of enemies way behind your drone escort isn't a real good idea, but neither is using Stasis on a Dragoon.  I don't necessarily expect the game mechanics to dissuade me from either decision.

I've just observed that the irritation with spawn-nukers often seems to boil down to the complaint that it's a cheap way to raise one's score.  I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy.  Yes, some people point out that there are some very bad times to blast a spawn, but the lion's share of the discontent seems to depend on score.  I wouldn't even mind that, since the scoreboard is the only quantitative way to measure participation (flawed though it may be).  But the "score isn't important, but I hate it when people use cheap tactics to raise their score" thing is a common theme.  

It would appear that I'm not the only one to make the observation.

^ Not in this thread. The only people to mention score are you and Panda, both criticising an attitude that hasn't been expressed in this thread at all.

[Rotward]

Missiles aren't balanced, but they're no more unbalanced than any of the overpowered, er, powers, weapons, and kits. If you're just starting, you need to have the missiles, because low lvls with bad weapons can't handle the endless bosses.

What really needs to be done, is that the nuke does the damage it does DIVIDED by the number of enemies.

[Supreme Leech]

That would mean no speedruns. This is a stupid idea, no thanks.

[cato potato]

XFG-65 wrote...

That would mean no speedruns. This is a stupid idea, no thanks.

No-rocket speedruns are still speedruns.