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It's quite sad that Quantic Dream is the only best storyteller right now.


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#51
wolfhowwl

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No.

Desperately stealing techniques from the actually respected medium of film and shoving it into a game does not make the story good and in many cases actually damages the product.

This trend towards cinematic experiences is ignoring why we play a videogame instead of a movie: interactivity. Rather than playing to the strength of the medium to tell a story, these developers with their transparent inferiority complex towards cinema discard gameplay in favor of turgid, endless cutscenes that just shift the focus to their own poor writing.

Although Beyond: Two Souls is a very passive experience it still has a bare minimum of interactivity that qualifies it as a game, just not a good one. If we were to evaluate Beyond: Two Souls as a movie it would be laughably bad, a SyFy channel laughingstock that makes the like of Babylon A.D. appear a masterpiece.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 24 octobre 2013 - 08:51 .


#52
Seboist

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wolfhowwl wrote...

This trend towards cinematic experiences is ignoring why we play a videogame instead of a movie: interactivity. Rather than playing to the strength of the medium to tell a story, these developers with their transparent inferiority complex towards cinema discard gameplay in favor of these turgid, endless cutscenes that just shift the focus to their own poor writing.


It isn't so much an inferiority complex as it is these devs being hacks who couldn't cut it with the film/television industry and trying to pursue their dream via video games.

#53
Mr.House

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Seboist wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

This trend towards cinematic experiences is ignoring why we play a videogame instead of a movie: interactivity. Rather than playing to the strength of the medium to tell a story, these developers with their transparent inferiority complex towards cinema discard gameplay in favor of these turgid, endless cutscenes that just shift the focus to their own poor writing.


It isn't so much an inferiority complex as it is these devs being hacks who couldn't cut it with the film/television industry and trying to pursue their dream via video games.

Which I wish would stop. I have better games to play then wannabes worked on my hacks.

#54
shockky

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OP obviously has no idea what constitutes good writing.

inb4 "Good writing is subjective" nonsense.

#55
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shockky wrote...

OP obviously has no idea what constitutes good writing.

inb4 "Good writing is subjective" nonsense.


Some people hate Tolkien; call him a horrible story-teller.

That dude hates Shakespeare's guts.

And someone told me G.R.R Martin is too "simple" to be of any value to the world of literature.

So, either those two and Tolkein are idiots...or writing is really a subjective art.

#56
shockky

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What a horrible argument.

#57
Eterna

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Mr.House wrote...

Seboist wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

This trend towards cinematic experiences is ignoring why we play a videogame instead of a movie: interactivity. Rather than playing to the strength of the medium to tell a story, these developers with their transparent inferiority complex towards cinema discard gameplay in favor of these turgid, endless cutscenes that just shift the focus to their own poor writing.


It isn't so much an inferiority complex as it is these devs being hacks who couldn't cut it with the film/television industry and trying to pursue their dream via video games.

Which I wish would stop. I have better games to play then wannabes worked on my hacks.


Many people like them and nobody forces you to play them...

#58
NeonFlux117

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Ken f*ckin' Levine. Nuff said really. There's others to. I thought the guy that wrote Spec ops the Line (Walt Williams- watch for him, he's gonna be good) was really good, CDPR has done good work, telltale did an AMAZING job with walking dead- if only the t.v. show was HALF as good as that, Naughty dog is decent too, Metro Last Light was stellar (Glukhovsky is a beast), Deus EX HR had good writing. There's lots.

Beyond two souls was okay I guess. But damn, I felt like I was watching a movie and not playing a game. There was a disconnect. But, Ellen Page is pretty hot. So.. decent.

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 24 octobre 2013 - 09:09 .


#59
fchopin

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I watched a little of the story on YouTube and it as an ok story but got fed up after about an hour.
I suppose the game was good to watch on YouTube but not good to play.

About two weeks ago a bought one of the Assassins Creed games and got as far as America with the ship and then stopped playing as i was just watching a movie and making a few moves for fun.
I don’t know why i buy the games but they were cheap so thought i would give it a try.

#60
Seival

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Cyonan wrote...

Seival wrote...

When you read a book, you just imagine the absent art. It's just like listening to someone discribing his feelings instead of experiencing the feelings yourself - completely different things. Books have a lot of things to say, but have nothing to show instead of blurry images created by your own imagination.

Movies have something to show you... for a short time, and with you just watching. Closer to experiencing something, but still you are just an observer. And regular games just sacrificing quality of storytelling in favour of gameplay, that actually creates more complications for storytelling instead of helping it. That's why regular games need cutscenes and/or interactive dialogues to push the story forward... I mean, gameplay lives its own live, and story lives its different own life. Replace gameplay with few more cutscenes and you will see no difference. All these runs through small corridors from waypoint to waypoint, or moving from point A to point B in "open world" which is in fact smaller than a district in a medium RL city, all this shooting on the way - feels rather pointless for the story. You play to reach cutscene, than you play to reach another cutscene. You hunger for the story, and regular gameplay just amplifies your hunger, nothing more...

...And well made interactive movie doesn't have all those disadvantages I listed above. It has a lot of things to tell and show you, and well-placed logical interactions with corresponding feedback will help you to feel the things that can't be shown or described. Gameplay and movie are living as one persistent entity that help you to hear, see, and feel the story as if you were participant, not a reader or an observer... But to create such a masterpiece, you really need the strong game development team and the best actors world can offer.


Art is more than just visual, and one medium is not superior to another. They are all tools to be used to get your message across, but like a tool you need to use the right one for the job.

I have most certainly experienced feelings of my own while reading stories or poems. Just because there is no picture to go with it does not mean it is not art.

The interactive movie can't do everything. It cannot truly let me create my own story, because it cannot let me choose from an infinite number of outcomes. It can't show or tell me a story as well as a book or movie can, because it's expected that I'm going to interact with it in some way.

Typically, you're still stuck going down that same story that the writer wanted to tell you but you influence it a bit so you might not get the whole story they wanted to tell you.

Sometimes you don't necessarily want the viewer to have influence over how things are flowing, and in many cases this can get a more powerful message across. There are a number of movies which would not be nearly as good in video game form.

The problem with Quantum Dream's games specifically is that the "gameplay" barely even qualifies for gameplay. It's a series of QTEs rather than any actually engaging gameplay mechanics.


Even very good imagination is very limited. If imagination would be superior, then there would be no cinemas and theaters, there would be no actors. Why would someone pay to watch a movie, if she/he could just read a book, and imagine all of this with the much better quality?... Imagination is only good for creating something, not for experiencing something.

Interactive movie creates everything you need to see, hear, and feel, within the story borders of course. There are different paths you can take. There are different outcomes you can get. If you will make just one playthrough the story will still be much longer than any good movie. If you will try every possible path and outcome, or just will want to come through the same path again and again, you will spend as much time as on an average regular videogame.

You claim that interactive movie has primitive gameplay, and I strongly disagree. When you need to open a door, you have to move your hand towards it first. When you need to dodge a knife, you need to move your character in direction that will help to avoid being hit, and do it really fast - within one moment. When you need to perform very inconvenient action, the interaction will be inconvenient too and will correspond to the things you see and hear. A scary scene? An intense combat scene? You didn't really experience all of that if you hands weren't shaking... literally; gamepad's vibration adds much to the immersion level, believe me... If you are not a coldblooded person, and pay attantion, you will literally live the life of your character in an interactive movie.

And what regular gameplay can really offer? Training of a skill of being better than scripted enemies or other players? Always pressing the same button to interract with the environment in order to push a button within a game? Wandering through the same corridors or tiny "open worlds"? Placing the story on pause to consume some time before the next cutscene?...

No, no, and no... you just can't feel how great is the music without someone playing it live near you.

Modifié par Seival, 24 octobre 2013 - 11:13 .


#61
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Ravensword wrote...

Gameplay makes video games too videogamish? Say it ain't so. What's next? Words making books too wordy? All those frames making movies too picturey?

Lulz

#62
Milan92

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

Ken f*ckin' Levine. Nuff said really. There's others to. I thought the guy that wrote Spec ops the Line (Walt Williams- watch for him, he's gonna be good) was really good, CDPR has done good work, telltale did an AMAZING job with walking dead- if only the t.v. show was HALF as good as that, Naughty dog is decent too, Metro Last Light was stellar (Glukhovsky is a beast), Deus EX HR had good writing. There's lots.

Beyond two souls was okay I guess. But damn, I felt like I was watching a movie and not playing a game. There was a disconnect. But, Ellen Page is pretty hot. So.. decent.


Don't forgot Hideo Kojima. That guy is the Tarentino of the games industry.

#63
TheChris92

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I'm a bit worried that someone can overlook so many great games of this generation that accomplishes in having both gameplay & story compliment each other then declare Beyond the epitome of storytelling in games - I suppose it's your opinion but I can't say I agree with at the slightest.

Modifié par TheChris92, 24 octobre 2013 - 01:56 .


#64
AresKeith

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Beyond Two Souls is wasted potential at best

#65
happy_daiz

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Here's another review, this one is by DMJared. So far I haven't found any favorable reviews for this game, which is a little telling.

I loved the part where he says that he put his controller down, and the outcome of the scene was absolutely no different than if he'd done the QTEs (around 1:50). At least Heavy Rain had consequences, what the heck?

If I want to watch something "pretty", I've got satellite with HD programming, thanks.

But back on topic, I think OP has got to be trolling us.

#66
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Read the title
Saw who the OP was
Didn't bother reading what he had to say

#67
GreyLycanTrope

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lol not by a long shot OP.

#68
AventuroLegendary

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simfamSP wrote...

shockky wrote...

OP obviously has no idea what constitutes good writing.

inb4 "Good writing is subjective" nonsense.


Some people hate Tolkien; call him a horrible story-teller.

That dude hates Shakespeare's guts.

And someone told me G.R.R Martin is too "simple" to be of any value to the world of literature.

So, either those two and Tolkein are idiots...or writing is really a subjective art.


I'm leaning toward the latter. Granted, good writing is backed up by number of things like clean prose and smooth narrative flow. I've heard people dismiss the works of Martin and Tolkien as literature on the basis of them being fantasy novels. 

Regardless, you don't or shouldn't need to look for outside validation to enjoy a story.

Personally, I think Tolkien is a solid writer but his strength is in world-building and mythology. 

#69
Liamv2

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Milan92 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Ken f*ckin' Levine. Nuff said really. There's others to. I thought the guy that wrote Spec ops the Line (Walt Williams- watch for him, he's gonna be good) was really good, CDPR has done good work, telltale did an AMAZING job with walking dead- if only the t.v. show was HALF as good as that, Naughty dog is decent too, Metro Last Light was stellar (Glukhovsky is a beast), Deus EX HR had good writing. There's lots.

Beyond two souls was okay I guess. But damn, I felt like I was watching a movie and not playing a game. There was a disconnect. But, Ellen Page is pretty hot. So.. decent.


Don't forgot Hideo Kojima. That guy is the Tarentino of the games industry.


That reminds me i really need to get round to playing MGS.

#70
bleetman

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Strange, because as much as I enjoyed Beyond Two Souls, I also found it incredibly inconsistent and cliche'd at several points.

#71
LPPrince

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fchopin wrote...

I watched a little of the story on YouTube and it as an ok story but got fed up after about an hour.
I suppose the game was good to watch on YouTube but not good to play.

About two weeks ago a bought one of the Assassins Creed games and got as far as America with the ship and then stopped playing as i was just watching a movie and making a few moves for fun.
I don’t know why i buy the games but they were cheap so thought i would give it a try.


Wait are you serious? You put down an AC game because you thought it felt like a movie?

WHAAAT

#72
Mr.House

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LPPrince wrote...

fchopin wrote...

I watched a little of the story on YouTube and it as an ok story but got fed up after about an hour.
I suppose the game was good to watch on YouTube but not good to play.

About two weeks ago a bought one of the Assassins Creed games and got as far as America with the ship and then stopped playing as i was just watching a movie and making a few moves for fun.
I don’t know why i buy the games but they were cheap so thought i would give it a try.


Wait are you serious? You put down an AC game because you thought it felt like a movie?

WHAAAT

AC3 was crap anyways, so he's not missing much.

#73
dreamgazer

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

Ken f*ckin' Levine. Nuff said really.


Actually, there's plenty to say about Levine's overpraised work in Bioshock Infinite, espcially dat ending. 

Talk about rule of cool and style over substance (and yes, I still enjoyed B:I quite a bit).

#74
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Lol you guys are funny. Have you heard of Mac Walters? I suggest you Google him.

#75
Mr.House

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dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Ken f*ckin' Levine. Nuff said really.


Actually, there's plenty to say about Levine's overpraised work in Bioshock Infinite, espcially dat ending. 

Talk about rule of cool and style over substance (and yes, I still enjoyed B:I quite a bit).

Least it's a video game, and enjoyable.