355 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Mr.House wrote...

AC3 was crap anyways, so he's not missing much.

Oh it has its enjoyable bits. Not as much as the Ezio Trilogy though. Best ACs are ACs 2, Brotherhood, and Revelations.

But if AC3 felt like a movie, every single AC game barring the first will feel the same way.

I can't understand the perception of an AC game as being overly cinematic in the same vein as a Beyond 2 Souls or Heavy Rain.

[happy_daiz]

LPPrince wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AC3 was crap anyways, so he's not missing much.

Oh it has its enjoyable bits. Not as much as the Ezio Trilogy though. Best ACs are ACs 2, Brotherhood, and Revelations.

But if AC3 felt like a movie, every single AC game barring the first will feel the same way.

I can't understand the perception of an AC game as being overly cinematic in the same vein as a Beyond 2 Souls or Heavy Rain.

^ I don't think it is. Like at all.

[dreamgazer]

Mr.House wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Ken f*ckin' Levine. Nuff said really.

Actually, there's plenty to say about Levine's overpraised work in Bioshock Infinite, espcially dat ending. 

Talk about rule of cool and style over substance (and yes, I still enjoyed B:I quite a bit).

Least it's a video game, and enjoyable.

Quite true. 

[Mr.House]

happy_daiz wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AC3 was crap anyways, so he's not missing much.

Oh it has its enjoyable bits. Not as much as the Ezio Trilogy though. Best ACs are ACs 2, Brotherhood, and Revelations.

But if AC3 felt like a movie, every single AC game barring the first will feel the same way.

I can't understand the perception of an AC game as being overly cinematic in the same vein as a Beyond 2 Souls or Heavy Rain.

^ I don't think it is. Like at all.

True, at least AC3 had gameplay, real gameplay. QTE fest is as much gameplay as clicking New game or Continue on the main menu.

[Dominus]

There is a Beyond Two Souls thread.

The concept for the topic spawned from the game, but the main topic is more reliant on the below quote.

Interactive Movie is the best format for true storytelling. It's more than a book, because you see and feel great actors' work. It's more than a movie, because you feel yourself like the participant, not an observer. And it's more than a game, because gameplay doesn't dominate the story, it only makes the story interactive and greater in terms of immersion level.

Adventure games/Interactive Movies/VNs have their pros and cons, and are known for some of the best storylines(as they're almost unanimously story-driven types of games). However, I don't believe that genre by itself is the one and only method of telling a meaningful and memorable story.

As an example many cRPGs well known for their fantastic storylines(Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, etc.) have a hefty amount of combat-related events. Could PS:T have been made into an adventure game? Maybe, but I'm not sure how they'd handle all the combat events repeatedly yet keeping it fresh and unique. "Because Gameplay Doesn't Dominate The Story". Well, it can be less reliant on it due to the dialogue-heavy nature of adventure games, but there's still a level of mechanic in there - it's simply less "game-y" then something you might see in other genres.

Ultimately, there is no one winner-takes-all genre for storylining, but adventure games tend to be the easiest fit for Story-Centric titles.

Modifié par DominusVita, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:44 .

[Mr.House]

DominusVita wrote...

There is a Beyond Two Souls thread.

The concept for the topic spawned from the game, but the main topic is more reliant on the below quote.

Interactive Movie is the best format for true storytelling. It's more than a book, because you see and feel great actors' work. It's more than a movie, because you feel yourself like the participant, not an observer. And it's more than a game, because gameplay doesn't dominate the story, it only makes the story interactive and greater in terms of immersion level.

Adventure games/Interactive Movies/VNs have their pros and cons, and are known for some of the best storylines(as they're almost unanimously story-driven types of games). However, I don't believe that genre by itself is the one and only method of telling a meaningful and memorable story.

As an example many cRPGs well known for their fantastic storylines(Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, etc.) have a hefty amount of combat-related events. Could PS:T have been made into an adventure game? Maybe, but I'm not sure how they'd handle all the combat events repeatedly yet keeping it fresh and unique. "Because Gameplay Doesn't Dominate The Story". Well, it can be less reliant on it due to the dialogue-heavy nature of adventure games, but there's still a level of mechanic in there - it's simply less "game-y" then something you might see in other genres.

Ultimately, there is no one winner-takes-all genre for storylining, but adventure games tend to be the easiest fit for Story-Centric titles.

So then why do Quantic Dream games have horrible writing? If the lack of real gameplay is for the sake of writing, then why is the writing bad? Telltale manages just fine, so this seems to be a Quantic Dream problem, along with David Cage being a very poor game dev.

[Hainkpe]

Here's the thing. As you age and gain more knowledge and experience, books change. Your perception of the characters and the meaning changes because how you look at those situations changed.

I read Moby Dick when I was in the fifth grade. I remember the story well. I loved Ahab. I am serious. Just recently, I went back and re-read the book and there is so much that I didn't know or understand at the time. Ahab is a mad man not just crazy truly obsessed. Seeing the story through innocent eyes I didn't see the sheer obsession. I knew it but didn't understand it. I grew. I saw more. The book didn't change. I did and it showed when I re- read the book. 

For me, a game, no matter how well done, does not compare. If anything the return is a let down. I grew but how the game is made doesn't allow for me to expand what's on the screen.

That's the difference. I, for one, prefer reading to anything else. I have read thousands of books and only played a few hundred games.

I prefer the way games are made now. So, no thanks.

Modifié par Hainkpe, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:22 .

[LPPrince]

Reminds me how different watching a Disney movie is as a kid compared to now as an adult.

Disney movies are based on dark fairytales, and as a kid you don't pick up on it, but the movies are still very dark in some specific cases. That or there's references to things only an adult will catch, like how much of a freaking perv Lumiére the Candelabra is and how he was about to bang Fifi the Featherduster behind a curtain at one point

[Mashiro Yuki]

Why is it a choice between gameplay and story. Devs should get off their asses and do both. Just sayin'.

[Cyonan]

Seival wrote...

Even very good imagination is very limited. If imagination would be superior, then there would be no cinemas and theaters, there would be no actors. Why would someone pay to watch a movie, if she/he could just read a book, and imagine all of this with the much better quality?... Imagination is only good for creating something, not for experiencing something.

Interactive movie creates everything you need to see, hear, and feel, within the story borders of course. There are different paths you can take. There are different outcomes you can get. If you will make just one playthrough the story will still be much longer than any good movie. If you will try every possible path and outcome, or just will want to come through the same path again and again, you will spend as much time as on an average regular videogame.

You claim that interactive movie has primitive gameplay, and I strongly disagree. When you need to open a door, you have to move your hand towards it first. When you need to dodge a knife, you need to move your character in direction that will help to avoid being hit, and do it really fast - within one moment. When you need to perform very inconvenient action, the interaction will be inconvenient too and will correspond to the things you see and hear. A scary scene? An intense combat scene? You didn't really experience all of that if you hands weren't shaking... literally; gamepad's vibration adds much to the immersion level, believe me... If you are not a coldblooded person, and pay attantion, you will literally live the life of your character in an interactive movie.

And what regular gameplay can really offer? Training of a skill of being better than scripted enemies or other players? Always pressing the same button to interract with the environment in order to push a button within a game? Wandering through the same corridors or tiny "open worlds"? Placing the story on pause to consume some time before the next cutscene?...

No, no, and no... you just can't feel how great is the music without someone playing it live near you.

As I said before, one medium is not superior to another, nor is it inferior. It would be like saying a hammer is superior to a screwdriver. It's not, it's just better at certain things while being worse at others. I'm not saying that imagination is better, I'm saying it's different and has its own uses.

I also did not say that interactive movies have primitive gameplay. I said that Quantic Dream's games have primitive gameplay. It's not a requirement of the genre, but I can't say I feel that QD puts much effort into the gameplay aspect of their games.

In gameplay you're making mouse movements or joystick movements, but you're not making the actual movement that would be required to open a door or dodge a knife. How is you moving to dodge that knife in an interactive movie any different from me moving to dodge a spell in World of Warcraft? You're talking about things which can be done by any other genre and often are.

Not really sure why you mention gamepad vibration, because it's not specific to interactive movies. Any game can make use of it, and ultimately while a nice touch it's not necessary. It's not like Amnesia wasn't scary just because I played it on PC and my keyboard/mouse didn't vibrate.

As for what gameplay can do, it can offer unscripted story. The best example of this being Skyrim, or really anything in the Elder Scrolls or Fallout series. Skryim is great because you aren't just playing a role in a story, you're making up your own story as you go and it is whatever you want it to be within the boundaries of the game world. I can choose to completely ignore all story and go exploring, and that becomes my story. That is the strength of a well made open world game.

Have you ever heard somebody say that a band is not as good live as they are pre-recorded? I certainly have.

You're a visual person. I get that and that's perfectly fine, but you need to understand that your way is not the only way when it comes to art. The great thing about art is that it's all subjective. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, because it's all about the feelings that you personally experience from the piece, whatever the medium is.

[LPPrince]

There's no such things as facts anyway. There's just opinions and mutually agreed upon opinions.

[Mr.House]

LPPrince wrote...

There's no such things as facts anyway. There's just opinions and mutually agreed upon opinions.

So the Sun being hot is just an opinion? OK THEN

[The Heretic of Time]

LPPrince wrote...

There's no such things as facts anyway. There's just opinions and mutually agreed upon opinions.

This is probably just a joke post right? I mean you seem to be a pretty smart fella, so this must be a tongue-in-cheek comment, right? I mean you can't be serious about this, can you?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 24 octobre 2013 - 05:57 .

[Cyonan]

modjospinster wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

There's no such things as facts anyway. There's just opinions and mutually agreed upon opinions.

Maybe it was a philosopical comment???

I don't know though...I heard the sun gets pretty hot around this time of year.

What if somebody is used to a cool temperature of a few million degrees on the kelvin scale?

[shockky]

LPPrince wrote...

There's no such things as facts anyway. There's just opinions and mutually agreed upon opinions.

How do you know this is true if there are no facts?*

*Assuming you're not being a doofus on purpose.

[LPPrince]

Cyonan wrote...

modjospinster wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

There's no such things as facts anyway. There's just opinions and mutually agreed upon opinions.

Maybe it was a philosopical comment???

I don't know though...I heard the sun gets pretty hot around this time of year.

What if somebody is used to a cool temperature of a few million degrees on the kelvin scale?

^

[Kalas747]

I have a feeling OP just gets caught up in whatever is "newest." Doubt they'll be promoting Beyond Two Souls in a month or two.

[AresKeith]

Kalas747 wrote...

I have a feeling OP just gets caught up in whatever is "newest." Doubt they'll be promoting Beyond Two Souls in a month or two.

He's start promoting the next game he finds "amazing" 

Last time he did the Last of Us

[Cyonan]

LPPrince wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

modjospinster wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

There's no such things as facts anyway. There's just opinions and mutually agreed upon opinions.

Maybe it was a philosopical comment???

I don't know though...I heard the sun gets pretty hot around this time of year.

What if somebody is used to a cool temperature of a few million degrees on the kelvin scale?

^

It was a bit of a joke, but there are actually things which are fact.

The Earth has a gravitational field, for example.

It doesn't matter which point of view you're looking at it from, it has one.

[Eterna]

A lot of people on this forum would be much more enjoyable to converse with if they didn't run around spewing their opinion as objective fact.

Seriously, this thread is terrible. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:45 .

[Cyonan]

Eterna5 wrote...

A lot of people on this forum would be much more enjoyable to converse with if they didn't run around spewing their opinion as objective fact.

Seriously, this thread is terrible. 

and yet you keep coming back to tell us about how terrible we are.

[Eterna]

Cyonan wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

A lot of people on this forum would be much more enjoyable to converse with if they didn't run around spewing their opinion as objective fact.

Seriously, this thread is terrible. 

and yet you keep coming back to tell us about how terrible we are.

I haven't called anyone terrible.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Cyonan wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

A lot of people on this forum would be much more enjoyable to converse with if they didn't run around spewing their opinion as objective fact.

Seriously, this thread is terrible. 

and yet you keep coming back to tell us about how terrible we are.