355 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd like to see Quantic Dream make a story with the entire conversation of this thread.

Will it have gameplay and follow basic game design?

[Seival]

Cyonan wrote...

Seival wrote...
I believe that practice is always superior to the theory even through the theory is also important. The same goes for experiencing vs imagining and truly personal memories vs remembered descriptions provided by someone else. Books are those remembered descriptions. Movies and games are closer to truly personal memories. And interactive movies are the closest to truly personal memories.

A typical combat scene from Beyond: Two Souls. It is a well thought out, performed, and motion-captured realistic combat, programmed to have several keypoints where player can perform right or wrong move within one second of slow motion. This combat feels much more realistic and exciting than any regular combat gameplay, where you move character doll through a flat surface, press the same attack buttons, and see enemy doll performing the same attack and move animations again and again. Beyond: Two Souls combat feels dynamic and living. Mass Effect combat feels too videogamish.

A typical dialogue scene from Beyond: Two Souls. It is a well thought out, performed, and motion-captured realistic dialogue sequences. Mass effect has similar thing, but not so well performed, and not time limited. In Beyond: Two Souls you have limited time to say something, just like in real life. You may rush and press each button randomly just to cover all dialogue options in time, but don't be upset if your character will say something stupid, or something you don't want her/him to say. Like in real life, think how you want to respond within a second, and respond. Have nothing to say? Remain silent. It's much better than non-time-limited dialogue wheel and all those hundreds of I-should-go*s we see in games like Mass Effect.

Gamepad vibration feedback can be much more rich in an interactive move than in any regular game, because interactive movie is a huge number of well thought out interactive sequences that require personal approach. In regular gameplay you might have just indication of weapon shooting or some heavy transport moving near you.

Skyrim... a sandbox, where devs literally told you: "we failed to create an amazing story for you, why don't you just find something to do in this sandbox yourself?". Very, very bad example of how stories should be made.

A band is not as good live as they are pre-recorded? Yes, the band is indeed not good enough as a band that equally good both live and pre-recorded. Good example actually. Personally I prefer to listen to the true professionals than to half-professionals.

Yes, I'm "visual person" for me this is the synonym of being progressive person.

I have always said "what should have happened in theory doesn't matter as much as what did happen in practice", however I do not consider writing to be "in theory". Perhaps it is because I am not given the whole picture and thus need to fill in certain elements with my own imagination which is going to be greatly affected by my own personal experiences, but reading a book can produce its own feelings and emotions, and not always the ones that the author intended for you to feel.

The thing about your QTE is that you're just responding to a visual cue to push a button. You push the button or make the joystick action which appears on the screen. There's no thought about why you're pushing that button, you just push it because the game told you that if you don't then the knife will hit you and kill you.

Compare that to say, World of Warcraft where I have at least a dozen abilities to use and it's up to me to pick which one is the right one to use. The game doesn't tell me which is the right one to use, and I have to figure it out so I can both A. keep everybody alive and B. manage my resource(mana) so that I can continue to do A. I'm not just pushing buttons because the game told me to do it, I'm thinking about WHY that ability is the best one to use.

While they might do dialogue better than Mass Effect(a lot of games do), the problem with dialogue in every game to date that I am aware of, including Mass Effect, is that you're limited in the number of responses. I can't always respond with the thing that I want to. There have been times where I thought "diplomacy would be great here" but nope, the game wants me to fight the other person so I only have various choices as to which way I want to provoke them. In some cases, that even goes against everything my character was supposed to be about.

The only known way around that is chat dialogue with other living players. In other words, RPing with other people.

Skyrim is not an example of how a story should be made. It's an example of what gameplay can do that interactive movies cannot. That's the great thing about Skyrim, the story wasn't written for you. You're writing the story that you want to write within their game world. Want to be the hero that frees Skyrim from the Imperials? Want to be just a random merchant buying and sell goods to make their fortune? Want to be an adventurer who explores ancient ruins for treasure? Want to be a thief just trying to make it by using every means available?

You can do all of that in Skyrim

Also, don't get me wrong. I think that interactive movies are great for certain things but they aren't the be all end all of artistic mediums. It's impossible for anything to be that because of how art works.

As I said before, being a visual person is fine but you seem to be incredibly closed minded about other people's points of view. Not everybody is a visual person, and that does not mean they are not progressive and they are certainly not wrong.

The only wrong point of view in art is thinking that your point of view is the right one.

Writing itself is not a theory. But reading is. Visuals, sounds, feedback, and interactions bring you closer and closer to practice. And that's why I believe interactive-movie > videogame > movie > book.

World of Warcraft combat or any other regular game combat is quite standard - click enemy to death while seing you and your enemy running around through flat surface performing the same animations again and again. I don't see this as truly dynamic and exciting combat anymore, after what I've experienced in Beyond: Two Souls. No matter how many abilities and skills you have in regular game, Beyond: Two Souls combat still feels realistic, while regular game combat feels oversimplified (even through it requires some skill of course). For the story-driven game feelings is what must take priority, even in combat scenes. And all those skills, abilities, weapon/armor sets etc should take priority for multiplayer competitive games like WoW, which do not have and do not need any kind of solid story.

Story can't be limitless. Dialogue scenes too.

Gameplay cannot create a solid story. That's why I don't like games like EVE Online or Skyrim. But sometimes it's really fun to play some competitive shooters. But you should understand, that I never come to play a competitive shooter to find a story there. There is no real story in such games.

Never told that my opinion is the only one correct. But always voiced my opinion when a topic is really interesting to discuss

Modifié par Seival, 24 octobre 2013 - 09:58 .

[The Love Runner]

Mr.House wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd like to see Quantic Dream make a story with the entire conversation of this thread.

Will it have gameplay and follow basic game design?

I sure hope so. Something tells me that the Grand Admiral Cheescake - Eterna 5 Romance will be DLC, though.

Not to mention it'll mainly be about Seival.

Modifié par Galactic Runner, 24 octobre 2013 - 09:49 .

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Mr.House wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd like to see Quantic Dream make a story with the entire conversation of this thread.

Will it have gameplay and follow basic game design?

You should know that basic game design has changed. The glorious Ride to Hell Retribution has declared that should a game lack a rail shooting sequence, thy game shall not be a game and all involved shall be shamed.

Amen.

[Seival]

Rubios wrote...

Guerrilla Games will be the superior storyteller next gen, starting with Killzone Shadow Fall.

You'll see.

I believe that Quantic Dream will also have next-gen projects, maybe even (please, please, please!!!) Beyond: Two Souls sequels. So, keeping in mind that Beyond: Two Souls already looks like a next-gen project, we can imagine Quantic Dream capabilities on PS4

[Mr.House]

How the hell is press a button or doing a movement that is scripted realistic or even fun? The fact that you can set your controller down and just watch as nothing bad happens is disgusting and a joke. Beyond is a overpriced movie.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Guerrilla Games will be the superior storyteller next gen, starting with Killzone Shadow Fall.

You'll see.

I believe that Quantic Dream will also have next-gen projects, maybe even (please, please, please!!!) Beyond: Two Souls sequels. So, keeping in mind that Beyond: Two Souls already looks like a next-gen project, we can imagine Quantic Dream capabilities on PS4

Funny how you said the same to Naughty Dogs when Last of Us came out

[Mr.House]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd like to see Quantic Dream make a story with the entire conversation of this thread.

Will it have gameplay and follow basic game design?

You should know that basic game design has changed. The glorious Ride to Hell Retribution has declared that should a game lack a rail shooting sequence, thy game shall not be a game and all involved shall be shamed.

Amen.

You can fail in Ride to Hell so it at least follows basic game design.

[Zjarcal]

Seival wrote...

No matter how many abilities and skills you have in regular game, Beyond: Two Souls combat still feels realistic, while regular game combat feels oversimplified (even through it requires some skill of course).

wat

Regular game combat feels oversimplified compared to the impossible to fail QTEs of B:TS.... ????

wat

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 octobre 2013 - 10:22 .

[Hainkpe]

Wow. Just. Wow.

Srsly. This is getting surreal and craycray.

/eatspopcorn

[Eterna]

Expecting combat to feel realistic in a video game is foolhardy to begin with. I think what seival means is that the Choreography of the fight scenes is far more complex than say CoD. At least I hope that's what he means.

[Dave of Canada]

Zjarcal wrote...

wat

Regular game combat feel oversimplified compared to the impossible to fail QTEs of B:TS.... ????

Putting down your controller is difficult, it's the evolution of gaming because we've reached the point where we're expected to actually play the game. David Cage masterfully breaks expectations and creates a new genre of gameplay which you can do absolutely nothing with absolutely no story consequences, a reflection upon life and how the choice of doing something or nothing won't change the fate which was written for you at birth.

[Mr.House]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

wat

Regular game combat feel oversimplified compared to the impossible to fail QTEs of B:TS.... ????

Putting down your controller is difficult, it's the evolution of gaming because we've reached the point where we're expected to actually play the game. David Cage masterfully breaks expectations and creates a new genre of gameplay which you can do absolutely nothing with absolutely no story consequences, a reflection upon life and how the choice of doing something or nothing won't change the fate which was written for you at birth.

But I'm not ready!

[Seival]

Mr.House wrote...

How the hell is press a button or doing a movement that is scripted realistic or even fun? The fact that you can set your controller down and just watch as nothing bad happens is disgusting and a joke. Beyond is a overpriced movie.

Simple. It's not just scripted, it's performed by professional actors, while all interactions correspond to the actions your character is going to perform just perfectly. Yes, if you lose, Aiden will eventually help you, but still you are able to win the combat just by Jodie, and the combat will look and feel differently.

We are not talking about fun here, we are talking about experiencing something. Beyond: Two Souls is not a comedy and not a competitive shooter. You should look for fun in other games. Interactive movie is about realistic experience, not about having fun.

Modifié par Seival, 24 octobre 2013 - 10:13 .

[Seival]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Guerrilla Games will be the superior storyteller next gen, starting with Killzone Shadow Fall.

You'll see.

I believe that Quantic Dream will also have next-gen projects, maybe even (please, please, please!!!) Beyond: Two Souls sequels. So, keeping in mind that Beyond: Two Souls already looks like a next-gen project, we can imagine Quantic Dream capabilities on PS4

Funny how you said the same to Naughty Dogs when Last of Us came out

That was before I played Beyond: Two Souls, which is far better in terms of storytelling.

[Dave of Canada]

Mr.House wrote...

But I'm not ready!

You better be, we've reached the point where books are actually played via moving pictures and voices on things called teleivsion.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Guerrilla Games will be the superior storyteller next gen, starting with Killzone Shadow Fall.

You'll see.

I believe that Quantic Dream will also have next-gen projects, maybe even (please, please, please!!!) Beyond: Two Souls sequels. So, keeping in mind that Beyond: Two Souls already looks like a next-gen project, we can imagine Quantic Dream capabilities on PS4

Funny how you said the same to Naughty Dogs when Last of Us came out

That was before I played Beyond: Two Souls, which is far better in terms of storytelling.

Hell naw

[Mr.House]

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

How the hell is press a button or doing a movement that is scripted realistic or even fun? The fact that you can set your controller down and just watch as nothing bad happens is disgusting and a joke. Beyond is a overpriced movie.

Simple. It's not just scripted, it's performed by professional actors, and all interactions correspond the actions your character is going to perform perfectly. Yes, if you lose, Aiden will eventually help you, but still you are able to win the combat just by Jodie, and the combat will look and feel differently.

We are not talking about fun here, we are talking about experiencing something. Beyond: Two Souls is not a comedy and not a competitive shooter. You should look for fun in other games. Interactive movie is about realistic experience, not about having fun.

....Then why play a VIDEO GAME. Why waste $60 on a movie where everything is scrpted and you can not fail removing player agency and feeling rewarded for doing something. Thankfully the bulk of devs know what gamers want instead of following the yolk David seems to have a hard on for(along with putting a naked Page in his game which almost made her sue Sony)

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Mr.House wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd like to see Quantic Dream make a story with the entire conversation of this thread.

Will it have gameplay and follow basic game design?

You should know that basic game design has changed. The glorious Ride to Hell Retribution has declared that should a game lack a rail shooting sequence, thy game shall not be a game and all involved shall be shamed.

Amen.

You can fail in Ride to Hell so it at least follows basic game design.

I never implied it didn't you foolish child.

I implied it is the benchmark for what games should be. 

[Mr.House]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd like to see Quantic Dream make a story with the entire conversation of this thread.

Will it have gameplay and follow basic game design?

You should know that basic game design has changed. The glorious Ride to Hell Retribution has declared that should a game lack a rail shooting sequence, thy game shall not be a game and all involved shall be shamed.

Amen.

You can fail in Ride to Hell so it at least follows basic game design.

I never implied it didn't you foolish child.

I implied it is the benchmark for what games should be. 

Go left and explode?

[Br3admax]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Guerrilla Games will be the superior storyteller next gen, starting with Killzone Shadow Fall.

You'll see.

I believe that Quantic Dream will also have next-gen projects, maybe even (please, please, please!!!) Beyond: Two Souls sequels. So, keeping in mind that Beyond: Two Souls already looks like a next-gen project, we can imagine Quantic Dream capabilities on PS4

Funny how you said the same to Naughty Dogs when Last of Us came out

That was before I played Beyond: Two Souls, which is far better in terms of storytelling.

Hell naw

This post is bad and should feel bad, yes. 

[The Night Mammoth]

I honestly have no idea what people see in Beyond: Two Souls.

[Eterna]

Mr.House wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

How the hell is press a button or doing a movement that is scripted realistic or even fun? The fact that you can set your controller down and just watch as nothing bad happens is disgusting and a joke. Beyond is a overpriced movie.

Simple. It's not just scripted, it's performed by professional actors, and all interactions correspond the actions your character is going to perform perfectly. Yes, if you lose, Aiden will eventually help you, but still you are able to win the combat just by Jodie, and the combat will look and feel differently.

We are not talking about fun here, we are talking about experiencing something. Beyond: Two Souls is not a comedy and not a competitive shooter. You should look for fun in other games. Interactive movie is about realistic experience, not about having fun.

....Then why play a VIDEO GAME. Why waste $60 on a movie where everything is scrpted and you can not fail removing player agency and feeling rewarded for doing something. Thankfully the bulk of devs know what gamers want instead of following the yolk David seems to have a hard on for(along with putting a naked Page in his game which almost made her sue Sony)

Beyond is a game. It fits the literal definition. It doesn't matter if you like QTE's or not, they are considered gameplay.

Obviously this game isn't for you, but don't pretend you know what everyone else wants, there are plenty of people who enjoy interactive movies, that is why the Walking dead, The Wolf Among Us, heavy Rain, etc, continue to be made. 

There is a market for them, you obviously don't like that market, we get it. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 24 octobre 2013 - 10:27 .