355 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Funny how you said the same to Naughty Dogs when Last of Us came out

That was before I played Beyond: Two Souls, which is far better in terms of storytelling.

I, uh ... really?

[Eterna]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Funny how you said the same to Naughty Dogs when Last of Us came out

That was before I played Beyond: Two Souls, which is far better in terms of storytelling.

I, uh ... really?

I actually enjoyed Beyonds story more as well. But overall I liked the Last of Us better. 

[Mr.House]

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

How the hell is press a button or doing a movement that is scripted realistic or even fun? The fact that you can set your controller down and just watch as nothing bad happens is disgusting and a joke. Beyond is a overpriced movie.

Simple. It's not just scripted, it's performed by professional actors, and all interactions correspond the actions your character is going to perform perfectly. Yes, if you lose, Aiden will eventually help you, but still you are able to win the combat just by Jodie, and the combat will look and feel differently.

We are not talking about fun here, we are talking about experiencing something. Beyond: Two Souls is not a comedy and not a competitive shooter. You should look for fun in other games. Interactive movie is about realistic experience, not about having fun.

....Then why play a VIDEO GAME. Why waste $60 on a movie where everything is scrpted and you can not fail removing player agency and feeling rewarded for doing something. Thankfully the bulk of devs know what gamers want instead of following the yolk David seems to have a hard on for(along with putting a naked Page in his game which almost made her sue Sony)

Beyond is a game. It fits the literal definition. It doesn't matter if you like QTE's or not, they are considered gameplay.

Obviously this game isn't for you, but don't pretend you know what everyone else wants, there are plenty of people who enjoy interactive movies, that is why the Walking dead, The Wolf Among Us, heavy Rain, etc, are continued to be made. 

There is a market for them, you obviously don't like that market, we get it. 

You can fail in the Walking Dead, you are not hand held, TWD is also well written, Beyond is not. Don't even compare TellTale to David Cages group.

[Zjarcal]

Eterna5 wrote...

Beyond is a game. It fits the literal definition. It doesn't matter if you like QTE's or not, they are considered gameplay.

Obviously this game isn't for you, but don't pretend you know what everyone else wants, there are plenty of people who enjoy interactive movies, that is why the Walking dead, The Wolf Among Us, heavy Rain, etc, are continued to be made. 

There is a market for them, you obviously don't like that market, we get it. 

I don't disagree with this.

I do question the point of including interactivity when said interactivity apparently does nothing.

[Eterna]

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

How the hell is press a button or doing a movement that is scripted realistic or even fun? The fact that you can set your controller down and just watch as nothing bad happens is disgusting and a joke. Beyond is a overpriced movie.

Simple. It's not just scripted, it's performed by professional actors, and all interactions correspond the actions your character is going to perform perfectly. Yes, if you lose, Aiden will eventually help you, but still you are able to win the combat just by Jodie, and the combat will look and feel differently.

We are not talking about fun here, we are talking about experiencing something. Beyond: Two Souls is not a comedy and not a competitive shooter. You should look for fun in other games. Interactive movie is about realistic experience, not about having fun.

....Then why play a VIDEO GAME. Why waste $60 on a movie where everything is scrpted and you can not fail removing player agency and feeling rewarded for doing something. Thankfully the bulk of devs know what gamers want instead of following the yolk David seems to have a hard on for(along with putting a naked Page in his game which almost made her sue Sony)

Beyond is a game. It fits the literal definition. It doesn't matter if you like QTE's or not, they are considered gameplay.

Obviously this game isn't for you, but don't pretend you know what everyone else wants, there are plenty of people who enjoy interactive movies, that is why the Walking dead, The Wolf Among Us, heavy Rain, etc, are continued to be made. 

There is a market for them, you obviously don't like that market, we get it. 

You can fail in the Walking Dead, you are not hand held, TWD is also well written, Beyond is not. Don't even compare TellTale to David Cages group.

Story is subjective. It is fair to compare them as they are the same genre of game. And you can fail in beyond, you just aren't greeted with a game over screen. 

[Mr.House]

You don't fail at all in Beyond, you can not participate in the QTE or pick what ever oyu want in dialog. None of it matters because it's a scripted movie pretending to be a video game but fails.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

So who else thought of this when reading the first post?

[Dave of Canada]

Eterna5 wrote...

Obviously this game isn't for you, but don't pretend you know what everyone else wants, there are plenty of people who enjoy interactive movies, that is why the Walking dead, The Wolf Among Us, heavy Rain, etc, continue to be made. 

Heavy Rain, Walking Dead, TWAU, etc have narrative differences based off your prior choices, decent writing and the QTEs aren't optional. I'm usually agitated when people call those games "movies" but Beyond is... well, 90% movie.

Every design decision in the game is terrible, I liked Heavy Rain and I see no redeeming features from this game.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Mr.House wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd like to see Quantic Dream make a story with the entire conversation of this thread.

Will it have gameplay and follow basic game design?

You should know that basic game design has changed. The glorious Ride to Hell Retribution has declared that should a game lack a rail shooting sequence, thy game shall not be a game and all involved shall be shamed.

Amen.

You can fail in Ride to Hell so it at least follows basic game design.

I never implied it didn't you foolish child.

I implied it is the benchmark for what games should be. 

Go left and explode?

Pah, I would not expect such a simpleton to understand. 

[Eterna]

Zjarcal wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Beyond is a game. It fits the literal definition. It doesn't matter if you like QTE's or not, they are considered gameplay.

Obviously this game isn't for you, but don't pretend you know what everyone else wants, there are plenty of people who enjoy interactive movies, that is why the Walking dead, The Wolf Among Us, heavy Rain, etc, are continued to be made. 

There is a market for them, you obviously don't like that market, we get it. 

I don't disagree with this.

I do question the point of including interactivity when said interactivity apparently does nothing.

There are plenty of optional activities you can do in Beyond. This question would be like asking why do they put random pictures in certain stores for Lee to interact with. 

And despite what some people may have you believe, there are choices in beyond Two souls and they do effect the outcome of the game. 

[Eterna]

Mr.House wrote...

You don't fail at all in Beyond, you can not participate in the QTE or pick what ever oyu want in dialog. None of it matters because it's a scripted movie pretending to be a video game but fails.

Maybe with the QTE's but the dialogue does effect the game. 

[Cyonan]

Seival wrote...

Writing itself is not a theory. But reading is. Visuals, sounds, feedback, and interactions bring you closer and closer to practice. And that's why I believe interactive-movie > videogame > movie > book.

World of Warcraft combat or any other regular game combat is quite standard - click enemy to death while seing you and your enemy running around through flat surface performing the same animations again and again. I don't see this as truly dinamic and exciting combat anymore, after what I've experienced in Beyond: Two Souls. No matter how many abilities and skills you have in regular game, Beyond: Two Souls combat still feels realistic, while regular game combat feels oversimplified (even through it requires some skill of course). For the story-driven game feelings is what must take priority, even in combat scenes. And all those skills, abilities, weapon/armor sets etc should take priority for multiplayer competitive games like WoW, which do not have and do not need any kind of solid story.

Story can't be limitless. Dialogue scenes too.

Gameplay cannot create a solid story. That's why I don't like games like EVE Online or Skyrim. But sometimes it's really fun to play some competitive shooters. But you should understand, that I never come to play a competitive shooter to find a story there. There is not real story in such games.

Never told that my opinion is the only one correct. But always voiced my opinion when a topic is really interesting to discuss

Reading is not a theory either. You cannot seriously sit there and tell me that somehow anything I've felt from reading a book is less than what I felt from a movie, or video game, or interactive movie.

Your statements about WoW are rather off. Part of the game is Battlegrounds and Arenas, which are competitive PvP however the game itself has its biggest focus on raiding, the co-operative PvE side of things. I have to work together with 9 or 24 other players to accomplish our goal of killing the boss. Bosses are typically heavily scripted, but they do not always perform the exact same animations in the exact same order.

Many of the fights have multiple phases where the boss fight changes. A couple of times Blizzard has even been known to change the fight each time, making you fight a different set of enemies. The fights are no less dynamic than what you'd find in a QTE.

Also, WoW does have a story. If you like it or not is subjective but I find it overall to be pretty solid, and it's constantly changing since they update the game on a regular basis.

The thing is that the interactive movies often give the impression of letting me choose my way of doing things, but in reality it's choosing one of their way of doing things or sometimes not even choosing but rather just taking part in it. I'm interacting with it, but my influence is very limited by current technology unless there are only human players involved in things(another strength of MMOs, they have game worlds populated by living people rather than AI).

Gameplay can create solid story, but it's typically story that you as the player have written. Then you've got the people who can weave story into their gameplay.

Despite the silent protagonist bringing things down a bit, Valve is brilliant at this with Half-Life. You are never taken out of the action so the game can shove some story in your face. There are periods of high action with intense firefights followed by some down time so they can get to the dialogue and pace the game nicely. All story in the game is delivered via dialogue while gameplay is going on. There is no sudden break or pause, and if you really want to you can ignore it and just play it as another FPS game.

Perhaps right/wrong were not the correct words. You are saying that one medium is better than another, and that people who think so are progressive people(implying that anybody who disagrees with you is not).

There is no right and wrong or better and worse in art. It's an illogical statement because it's impossible for one thing to be better than another. You can prefer interactive movies, but that doesn't mean that movies, books, and regular gameplay doesn't all have their own merits.

To claim that being a visual person makes you progressive implies that I am somehow not because I disagree with you, which makes you look incredibly closed minded.

As I said, I'm not calling you wrong for preferring interactive movies. I am calling you wrong for claiming they are objectively superior to everything else.

I view the statement "books have no art" from your OP to be equal to those stating that video games are not art.

Modifié par Cyonan, 24 octobre 2013 - 10:35 .

[Dave of Canada]

Lizardviking wrote...

So who else thought of this when reading the first post?

I love this.

[Eterna]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Heavy Rain, Walking Dead, TWAU, etc have narrative differences based off your prior choices,

So does Beyond.

decent writing

Opinion.

I'm usually agitated when people call those games "movies" but Beyond is... well, 90% movie.

did it ever pretend to not be a mostly cinematic experience? 

Every design decision in the game is terrible, I liked Heavy Rain and I see no redeeming features from this game.

Again, subjective opinion. Which is okay. 

[Mr.House]

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

You don't fail at all in Beyond, you can not participate in the QTE or pick what ever oyu want in dialog. None of it matters because it's a scripted movie pretending to be a video game but fails.

Maybe with the QTE's but the dialogue does effect the game. 

You mean how you say you don't love Ryan butt hen Jodie at the end of the game says she loved him? Ya great effect!

[Cyonan]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

So who else thought of this when reading the first post?

I love this.

Thank god for Jim.

[TheRealJayDee]

Mr.House wrote...

You mean how you say you don't love Ryan butt hen Jodie at the end of the game says she loved him? Ya great effect!

That didn't happen in the playthrough I accompanied. Ryan got told to **** off every possible moment after a certain point, and I don't remember Jodie changing that stance without player input later in the game.


edit:
Jim's Cage impression is gold!

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 24 octobre 2013 - 11:05 .

[The Love Runner]

I'd also like to see David Cage write a story about a Steel Cage wrestling match starring Nicholas Cage.

[AresKeith]

Galactic Runner wrote...

I'd also like to see David Cage write a story about a Steel Cage wrestling match starring Nicholas Cage.

Sounds Cagey 

[wolfhowwl]

Seival wrote...
Good books have a lot of content for your own imagination, but they have zero art...

Dear God.

I am not sure how I missed that the first time I read your post.

[ObserverStatus]

Lizardviking wrote...
So who else thought of this when reading the first post?

Me of course, I couldn't separate that video from Quantic Dream in my mind if I wanted to.

[Seival]

Mr.House wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

How the hell is press a button or doing a movement that is scripted realistic or even fun? The fact that you can set your controller down and just watch as nothing bad happens is disgusting and a joke. Beyond is a overpriced movie.

Simple. It's not just scripted, it's performed by professional actors, and all interactions correspond the actions your character is going to perform perfectly. Yes, if you lose, Aiden will eventually help you, but still you are able to win the combat just by Jodie, and the combat will look and feel differently.

We are not talking about fun here, we are talking about experiencing something. Beyond: Two Souls is not a comedy and not a competitive shooter. You should look for fun in other games. Interactive movie is about realistic experience, not about having fun.

....Then why play a VIDEO GAME. Why waste $60 on a movie where everything is scrpted and you can not fail removing player agency and feeling rewarded for doing something. Thankfully the bulk of devs know what gamers want instead of following the yolk David seems to have a hard on for(along with putting a naked Page in his game which almost made her sue Sony)

And what's the point of playing Planescape: Torment for example? Protagonist also can't die in combat there (except just few combats in the Fortress of Regrets and ability to commit suicide with a unique weapon). In addition to this, all Planescape combats are just primitive and static, not even scripted. If you were defeated, you will just wake up and proceed to the combat you just lost to win and move the story forwards. Planescape was a bad game then? How many people would agree with such statement, how do you think?

Story-driven games are about experiencing feelings, and taking part in some interesting events. Also each good story-driven game raises a number of philosophical questions for player to think about. No regular game, movie, or book, can make all of this happen in the best possible quality. Only interactive movie can... Don't get me wrong, there are very good regular games, movies, and books. But all of them will never be as amazing as perfectly made interactive movies.

Modifié par Seival, 25 octobre 2013 - 11:01 .

[wolfsite]

www.youtube.com/watch

[Liamv2]

The top comment on that vid summed up the game pretty well.

The problem is that the game is pretty much only consider as "good" by people, who get emotionally attached. Most scenes are their to form this emotional connection. If this fails, because humans are so vastly different, it leads to a disappointing experience because then neither gameplay nor story is better than average. With other games at least the gameplay is still somewhat enjoyable but in Beyond the Mechanics are barely more than QTE's and won't make the game more enjoyable.