553 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We're both unfettered: to us, victory/goals are the only thing that matter.

"I'm not sure. Using anything from this base... it feels like a betrayal."

I agree


Miranda went a bit soft

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal? Or am I thinking too rationally? 

[Steelcan]

Br3ad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We're both unfettered: to us, victory/goals are the only thing that matter.

"I'm not sure. Using anything from this base... it feels like a betrayal."

I agree


Miranda went a bit soft

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal? Or am I thinking too rationally? 

I'm guessing it was supposed to be her crowning "de-frost" moment

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

We're both unfettered: to us, victory/goals are the only thing that matter.

"I'm not sure. Using anything from this base... it feels like a betrayal."

A rather low line. Though I'll say Miranda has more of an inkling for morality or ethical conduct than I do.

Granted, I do blow up the base, even if I reject the "not sacrificing the soul of our species' BS.

I did it simply because I know that using it would lead to Reaper indoctrination. Corruption from them. It's too much of a risk to use. Too much of a gamble. Unfettered types do what it takes to win, but they don't make pointlessly risky gambles with low probability for payoff.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:03 .

[David7204]

'Unfettered,' huh?

[Soccer FeverMan]

Br3ad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We're both unfettered: to us, victory/goals are the only thing that matter.

"I'm not sure. Using anything from this base... it feels like a betrayal."

I agree


Miranda went a bit soft

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal? Or am I thinking too rationally? 

The latter.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Is that word too big for you?

[Xilizhra]

A rather low line. Though I'll say Miranda has more of an inkling for morality or ethical conduct than I do.

Miranda's exceedingly ethically devoted to the advancement of humanity and quite concerned about Shepard betraying that in some manner, at least at first. And there are certainly many lines she's unwilling to cross; anything that might at all harm her sister, for instance, along with what the line I mentioned above indicates.

[Soccer FeverMan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We're both unfettered: to us, victory/goals are the only thing that matter.

"I'm not sure. Using anything from this base... it feels like a betrayal."

A rather low line. Though I'll say Miranda has more of an inkling for morality or ethical conduct than I do.

Granted, I do blow up the base, even if I reject the "not sacrificing the soul of our species' BS.

I did it simply because I know that using it would lead to Reaper indoctrination. Corruption from them. It's too much of a risk to use. Too much of a gamble. Unfettered types do what it takes to win, but they don't make pointlessly risky gambles with low probability for payoff.

You know for a fact or your just assuming ? you have made a lot of good points in my time lurking but i have to hear your reasoning on this one.

[David7204]

Br3ad wrote...

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal?

No. That's silly. Because you're proving to the world that using such methods is acceptable.

[Br3admax]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We're both unfettered: to us, victory/goals are the only thing that matter.

"I'm not sure. Using anything from this base... it feels like a betrayal."

A rather low line. Though I'll say Miranda has more of an inkling for morality or ethical conduct than I do.

Granted, I do blow up the base, even if I reject the "not sacrificing the soul of our species' BS.

I did it simply because I know that using it would lead to Reaper indoctrination. Corruption from them. It's too much of a risk to use. Too much of a gamble. Unfettered types do what it takes to win, but they don't make pointlessly risky gambles with low probability for payoff.

Indoctriantion only matters when plot. Soverign sure didn't indoctrinate enough people when pieces of him are raining down on the Citadel and salvage teams are able to clean him up and reverse engineer cannons that are in galaxy-wide use. 

[Ravensword]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Is that word too big for you?

Give him ten minutes to look the word up, learn how to pronounce it, learn it's definition, and how to use it. He'll get there.

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal?

No. That's silly. Because you're proving to the world that using such methods is acceptable.

Of salvaging data? This isn't ends justify the means. This is the means have already happened, stop being a ****** with morals and make this worth something. 

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal?

No. That's silly. Because you're proving to the world that using such methods is acceptable.

........... So because we use Collector tech, that means that such experiments are 100% ok?

Out of curiousity did you take issue with Mordin's use of Maelon's data?  After all it was obtained unethically.

Modifié par Steelcan, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:10 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We're both unfettered: to us, victory/goals are the only thing that matter.

"I'm not sure. Using anything from this base... it feels like a betrayal."

A rather low line. Though I'll say Miranda has more of an inkling for morality or ethical conduct than I do.

Granted, I do blow up the base, even if I reject the "not sacrificing the soul of our species' BS.

I did it simply because I know that using it would lead to Reaper indoctrination. Corruption from them. It's too much of a risk to use. Too much of a gamble. Unfettered types do what it takes to win, but they don't make pointlessly risky gambles with low probability for payoff.

You know for a fact or your just assuming ? you have made a lot of good points in my time lurking but i have to hear your reasoning on this one.

Let's put it like this: I know it's not entirely true from a meta-perspective, but it's my rationale for destroying the base without falling into the "this place is an abomination" scheme. I view it as something like the One Ring of Sauron. We really can't control the base while the Reapers are active. The Collectors weren't even it's true masters. They were custodians for the Reapers. The base is a tool that the Reapers alone can utilize. That 's how I view it in my decision to destroy the base.

[wolfhowwl]

David7204 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal?

No. That's silly. Because you're proving to the world that using such methods is acceptable.

But that's nonsense.

[PwrdOff]

I found Miranda to be pretty overrated as a character. She's not necessarily a bad concept but if you think about it she didn't actually do a whole hell of a lot in the games. I mean, she's constantly being disparaged in-universe for being a caricature, mostly by Jack, and rarely ever has any good comebacks.   By the time you get to sanctuary she's gone full on damsel in distress. At least she's a useful squaddie in combat, I suppose.

Modifié par BNN999, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:11 .

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, I have nothing against people disagreeing with me (depending on what it is, of course; people disagreeing with me on whether or not human supremacy is good might be a dealbreaker), but from what I can tell, the VS' unfounded suspicion of Shepard is based primarily on cognitive dissonance and a too-rigid perception of Shepard's loyalties, not actual caution, and even older and more experienced people who knew Shepard are inclined to trust her. In fact, every single one of Shepard's old associates falls into this, aside from them, regardless of intelligence/trust levels. I find it very difficult to believe that the VS' fears have much grounding in reality.

the fears were definitely well placed on Horizon, I will acknowledge that much. Now during ME3, not so much. 

Horizon... honestly, I don't think they thought things through well at all, or handled the situation competently. There are reasons why they wouldn't, of course, but I don't think that they did.

Horizon was handled terribly.  Both by the VS and Shepard.  The writing from beginning to end was pretty awful.

Mars, the VS was far more reasonable.  Not so much thinking Shepard willingly ran off and joined Cerberus, but afraid that Shep is somehow being controlled, not acting of his/her own volition.  Given the technology available, and the kind of stuff Cerberus has been studying, that a far more reasonable fear.  Especially if Cerberus is technologically advanced enough to cure death.

[Steelcan]

Ravensword wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Is that word too big for you?

Give him ten minutes to look the word up, learn how to pronounce it, learn it's definition, and how to use it. He'll get there.

Or he'll dismiss all arguments using it because its over two syllables

[Soccer FeverMan]

David7204 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal?

No. That's silly. Because you're proving to the world that using such methods is acceptable.

lol 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Seriously, a betrayal of what? Wouldn't letting all of those thousands of deaths being for nothing be a betrayal?

No. That's silly. Because you're proving to the world that using such methods is acceptable.

The only thing unacceptable about it is the possibility of it blowing up or backfiring in our face. It's an indoctrination trap waiting to happen.

Otherwise, I'd have no qualms about utilizing it to its fullest.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:13 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Not heroic enough for you?

[Xilizhra]

Horizon was handled terribly. Both by the VS and Shepard. The writing from beginning to end was pretty awful.

Mars, the VS was far more reasonable. Not so much thinking Shepard willingly ran off and joined Cerberus, but afraid that Shep is somehow being controlled, not acting of his/her own volition. Given the technology available, and the kind of stuff Cerberus has been studying, that a far more reasonable fear. Especially if Cerberus is technologically advanced enough to cure death.

Why was there a problem with Shepard on Horizon?

As for Mars... honestly, Cerberus controlling Shepard to go carve through their own operation on the place strikes me as going a bit too far into conspiracy crazytown.

[TheBlackBaron]

Because people are a) dumb, and xenophiles.

Seriously, I love Tali and Garrus and Wrex and Javik and others, and I romanced the first two, but some people take it entirely too far. I've heard people express dislike for Ashley, Vega, and others just because they're human.

This gets particularly noticeable when it comes to romances, where people have said they don't want to romance a human because it's boring.

Sprinkle in that she doesn't kiss Shepard's ass at all times, professes vaguely described religious beliefs (which are verboten among swaths of the internet these days), expresses an entirely reasonable Renegade mindset in the first game, and that Chris L'Etolie left after ME1 and her writing suffered accordingly (though there are moments in ME3 - I did love quoting The Charge of the Light Brigade at the London FOB), and you've got a perfect storm to induce hatred among Bioware's blessed paladin children.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:18 .

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Not heroic enough for you?

That's a very interesting word to describe yourself. You consider yourself 'unfettered'?