553 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Seriously, I love Tali and Garrus and Wrex and Javik and others, and I romanced the first two, but some people take it entirely too far. I've heard people express dislike for Ashley, Vega, and others just because they're human.

Question: has anyone expressed dislike for Miranda, Jack or Kasumi because they're human? Because I suspect something else is at play here other than your notions of xenophilia.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Not heroic enough for you?

That's a very interesting word to describe yourself. You consider yourself 'unfettered'?

You consider yourself heroic. I'd say that's even.

[Steelcan]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Because people are a) dumb, and xenophiles.

Seriously, I love Tali and Garrus and Wrex and Javik and others, and I romanced the first two, but some people take it entirely too far. I've heard people express dislike for Ashley, Vega, and others just because they're human.

This gets particularly noticeable when it comes to romances, where people have said they don't want to romance a human because it's boring.

Sprinkle in that she doesn't kiss Shepard's ass at all times, professes vaguely described religious beliefs (which are verboten among swaths of the internet these days), expresses an entirely reasonable Renegade mindset in the first game, and that Chris L'Etolie left after ME1 and her writing suffered accordingly (though there are moments in ME3 - I did love quoting The Charge of the Light Brigade at the London FOB), and you've got a perfect storm to induce hatred among Bioware's blessed paladin children.

That doesn't explain why I blow her to her nonexistant afterlife

[Xilizhra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Not heroic enough for you?

That's a very interesting word to describe yourself. You consider yourself 'unfettered'?

You consider yourself heroic. I'd say that's even.

To my knowledge, he only considers his characters heroic.

I'm pretty sure Shepard can't be unfettered either. Too much Alliance loyalty in ME3.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...


I'm pretty sure Shepard can't be unfettered either. Too much Alliance loyalty in ME3.

AND DEAR GOD IS IT AWFUL

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Horizon was handled terribly. Both by the VS and Shepard. The writing from beginning to end was pretty awful.

Mars, the VS was far more reasonable. Not so much thinking Shepard willingly ran off and joined Cerberus, but afraid that Shep is somehow being controlled, not acting of his/her own volition. Given the technology available, and the kind of stuff Cerberus has been studying, that a far more reasonable fear. Especially if Cerberus is technologically advanced enough to cure death.

Why was there a problem with Shepard on Horizon?

As for Mars... honestly, Cerberus controlling Shepard to go carve through their own operation on the place strikes me as going a bit too far into conspiracy crazytown.

The VS assumes Shepard betrayed the Alliance and willingly joined Cerberus.  To the point of implying Shepard faked his/her death.  Regardless of Shepard's own past actions.  And Shepard's responses do little to articulate that this isn't the case.  Shep derps as hard as Ash/Kaidan, as far as I can tell.

As for Mars, TIM has proven more than willing to feed his subordinates into the meat grinder to advance some cause, such as maintaining an asset's cover.  And that was before he got an army of indoctrinated cyberzombies.  if anything the VS's fears understate how far into crazytown Cerberus and The Illlusive Man have gone. 

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Because people are a) dumb, and xenophiles.

Seriously, I love Tali and Garrus and Wrex and Javik and others, and I romanced the first two, but some people take it entirely too far. I've heard people express dislike for Ashley, Vega, and others just because they're human.

This gets particularly noticeable when it comes to romances, where people have said they don't want to romance a human because it's boring.

Sprinkle in that she doesn't kiss Shepard's ass at all times, professes vaguely described religious beliefs (which are verboten among swaths of the internet these days), expresses an entirely reasonable Renegade mindset in the first game, and that Chris L'Etolie left after ME1 and her writing suffered accordingly (though there are moments in ME3 - I did love quoting The Charge of the Light Brigade at the London FOB), and you've got a perfect storm to induce hatred among Bioware's blessed paladin children.

That doesn't explain why I blow her to her nonexistant afterlife

I assume it is for the same reason that I blow up Kaiden, you just don't like her character. Some people can be rational, believe it or not. 

[Steelcan]

iakus wrote...


As for Mars, TIM has proven more than willing to feed his subordinates into the meat grinder to advance some cause, such as maintaining an asset's cover.  And that was before he got an army of indoctrinated cyberzombies.  if anything the VS's fears understate how far into crazytown Cerberus and The Illlusive Man have gone. 

Something the VS has no reason to know of at all

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

'Unfettered,' huh?

Not heroic enough for you?

That's a very interesting word to describe yourself. You consider yourself 'unfettered'?

You consider yourself heroic. I'd say that's even.

To my knowledge, he only considers his characters heroic.

I'm pretty sure Shepard can't be unfettered either. Too much Alliance loyalty in ME3.

Narrative inconsistency from the first two games.

In fact, it's rather odd considering that Shepard can be very much like this in regards to the genophage and the Rannoch choice.

So not only is the game inconsistent in RPing with the rest of the series, it's inconsistent with itself. I blame poor writing.

[Xilizhra]

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Horizon was handled terribly. Both by the VS and Shepard. The writing from beginning to end was pretty awful.

Mars, the VS was far more reasonable. Not so much thinking Shepard willingly ran off and joined Cerberus, but afraid that Shep is somehow being controlled, not acting of his/her own volition. Given the technology available, and the kind of stuff Cerberus has been studying, that a far more reasonable fear. Especially if Cerberus is technologically advanced enough to cure death.

Why was there a problem with Shepard on Horizon?

As for Mars... honestly, Cerberus controlling Shepard to go carve through their own operation on the place strikes me as going a bit too far into conspiracy crazytown.

The VS assumes Shepard betrayed the Alliance and willingly joined Cerberus.  To the point of implying Shepard faked his/her death.  Regardless of Shepard's own past actions.  And Shepard's responses do little to articulate that this isn't the case.  Shep derps as hard as Ash/Kaidan, as far as I can tell.

As for Mars, TIM has proven more than willing to feed his subordinates into the meat grinder to advance some cause, such as maintaining an asset's cover.  And that was before he got an army of indoctrinated cyberzombies.  if anything the VS's fears understate how far into crazytown Cerberus and The Illlusive Man have gone. 

Shepard doesn't take actions of derp, only words, so I don't think it's as hard. And on Mars, TIM may sacrifice subordinates, but he completely blew Eva's cover and lost the robot completely due to Shepard's presence; surely that's a valuable resource that just got thrown away.

[Steelcan]

Br3ad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Because people are a) dumb, and xenophiles.

Seriously, I love Tali and Garrus and Wrex and Javik and others, and I romanced the first two, but some people take it entirely too far. I've heard people express dislike for Ashley, Vega, and others just because they're human.

This gets particularly noticeable when it comes to romances, where people have said they don't want to romance a human because it's boring.

Sprinkle in that she doesn't kiss Shepard's ass at all times, professes vaguely described religious beliefs (which are verboten among swaths of the internet these days), expresses an entirely reasonable Renegade mindset in the first game, and that Chris L'Etolie left after ME1 and her writing suffered accordingly (though there are moments in ME3 - I did love quoting The Charge of the Light Brigade at the London FOB), and you've got a perfect storm to induce hatred among Bioware's blessed paladin children.

That doesn't explain why I blow her to her nonexistant afterlife

I assume it is for the same reason that I blow up Kaiden, you just don't like her character. Some people can be rational, believe it or not. 

Nonsense this is BSN

[Xilizhra]

In fact, it's rather odd considering that Shepard can be very much like this in regards to the genophage and the Rannoch choice.

"Huge dick" does not necessarily mean "unfettered."

So not only is the game inconsistent in RPing with the rest of the series, it's inconsistent with itself. I blame poor writing.

I, luckily, do not have to.

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Horizon was handled terribly. Both by the VS and Shepard. The writing from beginning to end was pretty awful.

Mars, the VS was far more reasonable. Not so much thinking Shepard willingly ran off and joined Cerberus, but afraid that Shep is somehow being controlled, not acting of his/her own volition. Given the technology available, and the kind of stuff Cerberus has been studying, that a far more reasonable fear. Especially if Cerberus is technologically advanced enough to cure death.

Why was there a problem with Shepard on Horizon?

As for Mars... honestly, Cerberus controlling Shepard to go carve through their own operation on the place strikes me as going a bit too far into conspiracy crazytown.

The VS assumes Shepard betrayed the Alliance and willingly joined Cerberus.  To the point of implying Shepard faked his/her death.  Regardless of Shepard's own past actions.  And Shepard's responses do little to articulate that this isn't the case.  Shep derps as hard as Ash/Kaidan, as far as I can tell.

As for Mars, TIM has proven more than willing to feed his subordinates into the meat grinder to advance some cause, such as maintaining an asset's cover.  And that was before he got an army of indoctrinated cyberzombies.  if anything the VS's fears understate how far into crazytown Cerberus and The Illlusive Man have gone. 

Shepard doesn't take actions of derp, only words, so I don't think it's as hard. And on Mars, TIM may sacrifice subordinates, but he completely blew Eva's cover and lost the robot completely due to Shepard's presence; surely that's a valuable resource that just got thrown away.

Because Shepard was the one that stopped the robot from taking off. Also, he didn't blow anyone's cover. The VS found her. 

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

So not only is the game inconsistent in RPing with the rest of the series, it's inconsistent with itself. I blame poor writing.

I, luckily, do not have to.

So because your own Shepard wasn't affected its ok that the RP ability of others was slashed to ribbons?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So not only is the game inconsistent in RPing with the rest of the series, it's inconsistent with itself. I blame poor writing.

I, luckily, do not have to.

So because your own Shepard wasn't affected its ok that the RP ability of others was slashed to ribbons?

Pretty much, yeah. 

[Soccer FeverMan]

Xilizhra wrote...

In fact, it's rather odd considering that Shepard can be very much like this in regards to the genophage and the Rannoch choice.

"Huge dick" does not necessarily mean "unfettered."

So not only is the game inconsistent in RPing with the rest of the series, it's inconsistent with itself. I blame poor writing.

I, luckily, do not have to.

Yeah luckily for you a bunch of us still stuck out in the rain, and that's what you seem to not get.

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So not only is the game inconsistent in RPing with the rest of the series, it's inconsistent with itself. I blame poor writing.

I, luckily, do not have to.

So because your own Shepard wasn't affected its ok that the RP ability of others was slashed to ribbons?

Xil's Shepard is "the more canon" Shepard. 

[David7204]

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings. Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels. And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels. And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels. And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

As I've continually said, that idea of a 'free' character is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ridiculous from a narrative perspective.

Modifié par David7204, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:33 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

In fact, it's rather odd considering that Shepard can be very much like this in regards to the genophage and the Rannoch choice.

"Huge dick" does not necessarily mean "unfettered."

No, but I'm doing it for the war effort and for the galaxy. The galaxy is a much better place without the Krogan. I believe this entirely. In fact, I'd rather wipe them out now, and not deal with them at all. But I need them to fight the Reapers. And I need something to motivate them with. So I'll give them their cure. Because it works for me in the scheme of stopping the Reapers. That's even more important than the post-war state of play. 

And I'm only a 'huge dick' because you don't like it I'm guessing.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings. Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels. And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels. And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels. And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

Yet parts of that conflict with prior RP ability.

In ME2 you could be pro-Cerberus and express a desire to have joined earlier. or anti-Cerberus, working with them ony out of necessity.

Options like that do not exist in ME3.  And if this game was one without choices that would be fine, but when you can establish that Shepard likes working with Cerberus in one game but not the next its a problem.

Modifié par Steelcan, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:36 .

[Soccer FeverMan]

David7204 wrote...

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings. Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels. And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels. And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels. And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

As I've continually said, that idea of a 'free' character is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ridiculous from a narrative perspective.

I will never understand you in all my time lurking i've tried but i just...*sigh*

[KaiserShep]

Br3ad wrote...
Because Shepard was the one that stopped the robot from taking off. Also, he didn't blow anyone's cover. The VS found her. 

Actually, James was the one that stopped the mech from getting away.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:37 .

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings.

Despite Shepard's feelings too since they are the ones that are talking.

Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels.

Does not have to be true, even in game.

And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels.

Read above.

And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels.

Regardless of all the dialogue the writers have them say as well. It's just a shoehorn, not a plot.

And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

Also not true. Why don't you actually try all of the dialogue options before you spat this nonsense of of an opinion that you think is fact. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:37 .

[Steelcan]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings. Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels. And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels. And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels. And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

As I've continually said, that idea of a 'free' character is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ridiculous from a narrative perspective.

I will never understand you in all my time lurking i've tried but i just...*sigh*

Don't bother, it all comes down to "heroism" or "characterization"

he also has childlike understanding of biology and brain functions and repeteadly ignores arguments that prove him to be nothing more than an atention ****

[David7204]

Are you suggesting, Steelcan, that the developers simply strip any dialogue choices that aren't honored? The player is now "forced" to be friendly with Liara? That solves your problem, does it not?