553 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

So because your own Shepard wasn't affected its ok that the RP ability of others was slashed to ribbons?

So the brigade of unbridled hatred against everything and everyone I happen to like in this game is unhappy with it? Excuse me while I try to find a **** to give.

[Br3admax]

KaiserShep wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
Because Shepard was the one that stopped the robot from taking off. Also, he didn't blow anyone's cover. The VS found her. 

Actually, James was the one that stopped the mech from getting away.

The first part was sarcasm. I thought that is was obvious. 

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

So because your own Shepard wasn't affected its ok that the RP ability of others was slashed to ribbons?

So the brigade of unbridled hatred against everything and everyone I happen to like in this game is unhappy with it? Excuse me while I try to find a **** to give.

Pull your head out of your own ass and realize that a lot if not most people have a different playthrough than your own.


Better yet go find a playground to stalk.

[KaiserShep]

Br3ad wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
Because Shepard was the one that stopped the robot from taking off. Also, he didn't blow anyone's cover. The VS found her. 

Actually, James was the one that stopped the mech from getting away.

The first part was sarcasm. I thought that is was obvious. 

My mistake. On BSN, it can be rough to discern it without a sarcmark

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings. Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels. And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels. And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels. And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

As I've continually said, that idea of a 'free' character is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ridiculous from a narrative perspective.

And rather than using my own arguments to defend how it is possible and not ridiculous, I'll simply say that it was rather foolish and ridiculous of BW to have so much disconnect in their games.

You sound like you're arguing against a 'free character'. You should be arguing against BW for trying to make said free character.

Or playing games like KotOR, DA:O, and TOR where you really can have a free character that goes against your idea's of limited RP ability.

It's where Mass Effect is weak. I'm fine with narrative events being beyond my control.

I'm not fine with my PC being beyond my control, especially when prior games by BW (including the two games in the series before ME3) let me be in control of my PC.

ME3 in fact goes against the grain for that, when there is really no discernable reason that it should. There's no narrative reason that I have to be friends with Liara. There's no reason I have to be buddy buddy with Anderscum. There's no reason I have to like the alliance. There's no reason I have to be so cool to my crew. And if you're defending this philosophy, you're decrying the inverse to it in nearly every other game BW has made.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Xilizhra wrote...

So because your own Shepard wasn't affected its ok that the RP ability of others was slashed to ribbons?

So the brigade of unbridled hatred against everything and everyone I happen to like in this game is unhappy with it? Excuse me while I try to find a **** to give.

That's the problem a lot people have with you, you don't give a **** your arrogant and always act like you right and make no attempts to see it from a different perspective it's aggravating how ignorant you can be sometimes if not all the time.

[Xilizhra]

There's no reason I have to be so cool to my crew.

Which version of the word "cool" are you using?

[TheBlackBaron]

Steelcan wrote...
That doesn't explain why I blow her to her nonexistant afterlife

Whatever your reasons, Steel, if they're more than "I don't like her" (or conversely, "I like her"), that puts you above about 95% of the BSN, myself included. 

[Steelcan]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So because your own Shepard wasn't affected its ok that the RP ability of others was slashed to ribbons?

So the brigade of unbridled hatred against everything and everyone I happen to like in this game is unhappy with it? Excuse me while I try to find a **** to give.

That's the problem a lot people have with you, you don't give a **** your arrogant and always act like you right and make no attempts to see it from a different perspective it's aggravating how ignorant you can be sometimes if not all the time.

Believe me thats just a tiny fraction of our issues with that filth

[David7204]

The reason, Massively, is very simple. Because the narrative says so.

You're deluded. You expect, by default, the ability and right to define the story with the characters, events, and themes you want, and only those which you want. Anything else is apparently 'bad writing.' The story is not obligated to cater to you in any form or fashion whatsoever.

[Zjarcal]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Because people are a) dumb, and xenophiles.

Lol, Baron plz

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard doesn't take actions of derp, only words, so I don't think it's as hard. And on Mars, TIM may sacrifice subordinates, but he completely blew Eva's cover and lost the robot completely due to Shepard's presence; surely that's a valuable resource that just got thrown away.

Well, Shepard agrees to work with Cerberus before even checking in with the Council or the Alliance to get their take on the missing colonies, so I'd say that's a pretty bad derp.  There's no possible way The Illusive Man could be lying or "selective" in what he chooses to tell Shepard, right? 

And as pointed out it was the VS who discovered Eva.  And if we want to get technical about it, it was James' extraordinary shuttle-fu skills that prevented her escape.

Still, once Ash woke up in the hospital, one of the first things she says to my Shep is that she now accepts that Shepard has severed all ties with Cerberus.  So I guess Mars convinced her 

[Xilizhra]

Well, Shepard agrees to work with Cerberus before even checking in with the Council or the Alliance to get their take on the missing colonies, so I'd say that's a pretty bad derp. There's no possible way The Illusive Man could be lying or "selective" in what he chooses to tell Shepard, right?

I kinda need my own ship before I strike out on my own.

Still, once Ash woke up in the hospital, one of the first things she says to my Shep is that she now accepts that Shepard has severed all ties with Cerberus. So I guess Mars convinced her

And then, Udina. Of course, I don't remember her saying that to me, but I might be wrong.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

The reason, Massively, is very simple. Because the narrative says so.

You're deluded. You expect, by default, the ability and right to define the story with the characters, events, and themes you want, and only those which you want. Anything else is apparently 'bad writing.' The story is not obligated to cater to you in any form or fashion whatsoever.

Strawman for the win! Way to go David!

I bet the game is obligated to cater to you though, right?

*High five to people who deserve it*

I love how David just accused me of doing exactly what he does. Brilliant self-analyzation there.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 25 octobre 2013 - 04:56 .

[eyezonlyii]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings. Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels. And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels. And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels. And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

As I've continually said, that idea of a 'free' character is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ridiculous from a narrative perspective.

And rather than using my own arguments to defend how it is possible and not ridiculous, I'll simply say that it was rather foolish and ridiculous of BW to have so much disconnect in their games.

You sound like you're arguing against a 'free character'. You should be arguing against BW for trying to make said free character.

Or playing games like KotOR, DA:O, and TOR where you really can have a free character that goes against your idea's of limited RP ability.

It's where Mass Effect is weak. I'm fine with narrative events being beyond my control.

I'm not fine with my PC being beyond my control, especially when prior games by BW (including the two games in the series before ME3) let me be in control of my PC.

ME3 in fact goes against the grain for that, when there is really no discernable reason that it should. There's no narrative reason that I have to be friends with Liara. There's no reason I have to be buddy buddy with Anderscum. There's no reason I have to like the alliance. There's no reason I have to be so cool to my crew. And if you're defending this philosophy, you're decrying the inverse to it in nearly every other game BW has made.

DA:O you got freedom as a Grey Warden because they were a completely outside faction. THey weren't tied to any other person in the game and you were only tasked with stopping the blight. The difference for Mass Effect is that you're Alliance first, not just a human made SPECTRE. Which unfortunately means that Shepard has to share some ideals with them or else s/he wouldhn't have joined in the first place. Also you weren't "unfettered" in ME1, you still reported to the Alliance and to the council at times. THe only time you were truly free was ME2, and even then you were on Cerberus' leash. Your Shepard may have enjoyed and relished working with them, but my Sole Survivor Shepard was appalled and really, the first thing he would have done is gone back to the Alliance. 

So while I sympathize with wanting to play your Shep your way, pro Alliance Sheps had it almost as bad in ME2. I say almmost simply because we can voice our dissent with TIM whereas a pro Cerberus Shepard can't in 3. I think this has more to do with the "good place to start" angle they were trying to go with more so than anything else. It's much easier to have a new player introduced to the world as a space marine than it is the shady pro-human organization that everyone seems to hate for some reason.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Ashley is a strong independent woman who don't need no alien husbandu.

[eyezonlyii]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

Ashley is a strong independent woman who don't need no alien husbandu.

*z snap* *head bob* MMMMHHHHMMMMM!!!

[KaiserShep]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
 I bet you open the door to people at 2am in the morning who claim they're pizza delivery.

But how else are you going to get an impromptu Cinemax moment? 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

eyezonlyii wrote...
The difference for Mass Effect is that you're Alliance first, not just a human made SPECTRE. Which unfortunately means that Shepard has to share some ideals with them or else s/he wouldhn't have joined in the first place.

Not true. You can make it pretty clear in ME1 that you are now beyond the alliance. You can say this to Hackett. To Joker. To Anderson. To Mikhailovich. As for sharing some ideals, you really don't. Maybe a belief in space being humanities future. Or to escape the slim prospects on Earth. You really don't have to verbalize anything about why you're in the alliance in the beginning.

I joined the Army because I had idea's for what I wanted to get for my future. The ideals I share are the idea's of self-improvement and becoming an adaptable, confidant, and capable person, and a strong, decisive leader. That's sort of what I believe my Shepard joined the alliance for.

Also you weren't "unfettered" in ME1, you still reported to the Alliance and to the council at times.

Really, only the Council, and you can entirely play through the game while only talking to them a few times (first couple of audiences, Virmire update, and getting grounded.) You don't have to report anything about your mission at all. You can pretty much completely ignore the alliance if you wish. I really only helped them out of the kindness of my heart, not because I was obligated or ordered too. And as soon as they become a liability, I go against them since they're hindering my goal, though granted, I do need some external help from Anderson to make this possible.

The only time you were truly free was ME2, and even then you were on Cerberus' leash.

You still were free to carry out your mission the way you wanted too. TIM even states that he's letting you go to the alliance and Council if you want. TIM gives you remarkable autonomy, giving you the resources and letting you figure out the rest in whichever manner you'll have.

So while I sympathize with wanting to play your Shep your way, pro Alliance Sheps had it almost as bad in ME2. I say almmost simply because we can voice our dissent with TIM whereas a pro Cerberus Shepard can't in 3. I think this has more to do with the "good place to start" angle they were trying to go with more so than anything else. It's much easier to have a new player introduced to the world as a space marine than it is the shady pro-human organization that everyone seems to hate for some reason.

I can see how that's a fair assessment, even if it is pretty one-dimensional thinking on BW's part. I think the best things about stories are how they're able to let the player choose their path. You can have the path of the paragon, or the parth of the renegade, or the middle path, similar to how Machiavelli would advocate.

In the end, my Shepard's philosophy is this: Victory is victory. However you achieve it does not matter. Necessity is the only rule of victory. And necessity knows no law.

[Soccer FeverMan]

eyezonlyii wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's inevitable.

You have a story that gives the player choice of how to feel and yet defined events that happen regardless of those feelings. Just as Shepard is friends with Liara regardless of how the player feels. And has a father-son relationship with Anderson regardless of how the player feels. And is willing to work with the Alliance regardless of how the player feels. And respects the rest of the crew regardless of how the player feels.

As I've continually said, that idea of a 'free' character is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ridiculous from a narrative perspective.

And rather than using my own arguments to defend how it is possible and not ridiculous, I'll simply say that it was rather foolish and ridiculous of BW to have so much disconnect in their games.

You sound like you're arguing against a 'free character'. You should be arguing against BW for trying to make said free character.

Or playing games like KotOR, DA:O, and TOR where you really can have a free character that goes against your idea's of limited RP ability.

It's where Mass Effect is weak. I'm fine with narrative events being beyond my control.

I'm not fine with my PC being beyond my control, especially when prior games by BW (including the two games in the series before ME3) let me be in control of my PC.

ME3 in fact goes against the grain for that, when there is really no discernable reason that it should. There's no narrative reason that I have to be friends with Liara. There's no reason I have to be buddy buddy with Anderscum. There's no reason I have to like the alliance. There's no reason I have to be so cool to my crew. And if you're defending this philosophy, you're decrying the inverse to it in nearly every other game BW has made.

DA:O you got freedom as a Grey Warden because they were a completely outside faction. THey weren't tied to any other person in the game and you were only tasked with stopping the blight. The difference for Mass Effect is that you're Alliance first, not just a human made SPECTRE. Which unfortunately means that Shepard has to share some ideals with them or else s/he wouldhn't have joined in the first place. Also you weren't "unfettered" in ME1, you still reported to the Alliance and to the council at times. THe only time you were truly free was ME2, and even then you were on Cerberus' leash. Your Shepard may have enjoyed and relished working with them, but my Sole Survivor Shepard was appalled and really, the first thing he would have done is gone back to the Alliance. 

So while I sympathize with wanting to play your Shep your way, pro Alliance Sheps had it almost as bad in ME2. I say almmost simply because we can voice our dissent with TIM whereas a pro Cerberus Shepard can't in 3. I think this has more to do with the "good place to start" angle they were trying to go with more so than anything else. It's much easier to have a new player introduced to the world as a space marine than it is the shady pro-human organization that everyone seems to hate for some reason.

Holy Sh*t someone who actually understand you might be my new favorite person.

[eyezonlyii]

@soccer
thanks lol. Honestly, I wouldn't mind Cerberus too much if their portrayal was more ME2>ME1>ME3.
I just feel like after playing through some of the experiments in ME1, there is no way that most people could justify working for them after waking up in ME2. However, if we were able to see an escalation of experiments, starting with human (Teltin, Jack), then Geth, (Legion recruitment, then on to the crazier ones, it would make both the size and actions of ME3 Cerberus make more sense, To me anyway.

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, Shepard agrees to work with Cerberus before even checking in with the Council or the Alliance to get their take on the missing colonies, so I'd say that's a pretty bad derp. There's no possible way The Illusive Man could be lying or "selective" in what he chooses to tell Shepard, right?

I kinda need my own ship before I strike out on my own.

TIM said if Freedom's Progress didn't convince Shepard, he'd be glad to let them go their separate ways.

I wasn't convinced.  I wanted to talk to Anderson and the Council first, get their side of things.

Sadly, Shep decided "But Thou Must"

Still, once Ash woke up in the hospital, one of the first things she says to my Shep is that she now accepts that Shepard has severed all ties with Cerberus. So I guess Mars convinced her

And then, Udina. Of course, I don't remember her saying that to me, but I might be wrong.

What about Udina?  From the time the elevator doors opened to the point Ash had her gun trained on Udina was slightly over a minute (I checked once) Shep made one paragon interrupt (to signal teh squad to put up their weapons) and made one dialogue option (which was not blue/red text) and it was all over.  No real convincing needed.

And yes, my first visit, Ash said she accepted that Shepard cut all ties.  On my second visit she expressed an interest in rejoining the Normandy.  And after the coup, she asked again, saying she'd rather be on the team than off with Hackett. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

eyezonlyii wrote...

@soccer
thanks lol. Honestly, I wouldn't mind Cerberus too much if their portrayal was more ME2>ME1>ME3.
I just feel like after playing through some of the experiments in ME1, there is no way that most people could justify working for them after waking up in ME2. However, if we were able to see an escalation of experiments, starting with human (Teltin, Jack), then Geth, (Legion recruitment, then on to the crazier ones, it would make both the size and actions of ME3 Cerberus make more sense, To me anyway.

Read some of my stuff. It's rather easy to justify if you know how. 

Granted, you have to have a rather callous approach to morality and ethics. A willingness to play dirty, so to speak.

[RatThing]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Oh, on the topic of women in Mass Effect:

Traynor - a dog person. I hate dogs. No go.

Like her very much actually. Nice sence of humor. I don't mind if she wants a dog but if she doesn't feed my fish then I don't take care of her pooch.

Jack - very cool to have as a friend. I wouldn't risk my friendship with her by taking it one step further - for the sake of self preservation.

Interesting personality. Wild and full of spirit. Of course you can also say mentally and emotionally unstable.

Tali - can't accomplish anything without Shepard's help. And even with Shepard's help always manages to let most of her squad (and at the end her entire species if you don't intervene) die. Wanted to wipe out an entire sentient species.

I guess this is the perfect match for men who wants to play the hero for their girl. Awakens the protective instinct in you.

Ashley - likes her job and promotion more than Shepard. Hates aliens whom Shepard cavorts with. Undergoes plastic surgeries. Irreconciliable differences.

Unique personality. I can see why people don't like her, well I do. (Somehow she reminds me of Cass from New Vegas who I also liked)

Kasumi - awesome in every way possible. Particularly good sense of humor. But she's just not into Shepard. Ah well. Still an awesome friend to have.

Fully agree.

Miranda - awesome in every way possible except she has no sense of humor. Needs to lighten up. Perfect woman for people who are serious all the time. I can be very serious, but not all the time. Scratch that she's just perfect. With the exception that she does not share Liara's plot armor.

Boring character if you ask me. Career woman who plays professional at first, but then falls victim to the charm of the big hero. You see that type in every James Bond movie twice. I'm pretty much indifferent about her.

Samara - perfect for bad boys and girls who like to be bent over and punished. Except the punishment here is a swift death. Thanks, but no thanks. I know I've been bad but I want to live.

Something about her puts me off. I think it's her monotone voice.

Liara - awesome in every way possible. But unlike Kasumi is so extremely loyal to Shepard that even death cannot shake her devotion. Also has IMO the best body among ME women.

Perfect match for my  (more) renegade Shepard. Quasi the Yin to her Yang.

And as a bonus.

Morinth: Party girl who knows how to enjoy life. I like that. And dat voice. Too bad she's homicidal.

Kelly: Very charming. And she feeds my fish (You hear that Traynor?).

Modifié par RatThing, 25 octobre 2013 - 05:53 .

[Baihu1983]

ME 1 Ash was a good character. That character got ruined in 3..A LOT!