553 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

Baelrahn wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uhm....let's see, after all we went through in ME 1 INCLUDING but not limited to mutiny, she called me a Cerberus terrorist in ME2 in the face of the fact that I showed up on horizon with Garrus and Mordin, had my specter status reinstated, had Anderson's blessing AND Hakett covering my butt

So she is not only blind but dumb and a poor friend who continues her path of idiocy in ME3

yeah....no thanks

The whole premise is her doubting Shepard even is  the Shepard who established all this trust between them. Listen to the Commander talk during the encounter, personally I would trust him even less after that. But that's another story.

Anderson blantantly mistrusts Shepard's connections and lies to him regarding the VS because of it. At best, he thinks Shep's being played.

Hackett is tricky, because his appearance is kind of a late addition with the Arrival DLC. Many players already destroyed the Collector Base and gave TIM the finger, so it doesn't seem so far fetched usually.

I'm not trying to force you into liking a character I'm fond of, but I'm just surprised how I appear to be the only one who actually appreciated the relationship twist. Especially the back-and-forth during the third game keeps it exciting. Ten times better than "let's stay besties and/or happy lovers with zero conflict for the entire game" if you ask me.

You're not the only one. I've been saying it for over a year now how smart Ashley is. If Miranda had installed that control chip in Shepard, and then he went rogue at some point, guess which party member would've been a lot more difficult to take by surprise.

Certaintly wouldn't have been everyone's favorite turian or quarian. 

[Navasha]

Honestly, for me it was her outrage in ME2 when you meet her on Horizon that completely destroys anything about her that is likeable.

She doesn't even attempt to listen to your explanation of events. She comes off as a close minded drama queen. Someone being outraged because you didn't contact them while you were DEAD, is not someone that you should waste a whole lot of time on.

[The Night Mammoth]

I like rational, logical people, who don't let their emotions cloud what should be simple situations and discussions.

So it should be obvious why Ashley's never allowed to step foot on the Normandy again. Hackett can deal with her. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 24 octobre 2013 - 12:49 .

[RatThing]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
You're not the only one. I've been saying it for over a year now how smart Ashley is. If Miranda had installed that control chip in Shepard, and then he went rogue at some point, guess which party member would've been a lot more difficult to take by surprise.

Certaintly wouldn't have been everyone's favorite turian or quarian. 

The irony is how Tali is one of the most loyal character and at the same time the one Shepard can screw over most by exterminating her whole race. This is what you can get for too much trust. I can't imagine Ashley standing in awe like Tali if Shepard would endanger humanity.

Same kinda goes for Wrex and Legion. So whoever decided to sabotage the cure or to sacrifice one faction on Rannoch can't really complain about Ashley's distrust.

Modifié par RatThing, 24 octobre 2013 - 01:05 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Ashley is the perfect side kick, partner and wife for Shepard

Thing is that Ash got unlucky in ME1 with a lot of the dialogue: due to a bug she would keep insulting alien dignitaries ("I can't tell the aliens from the animals" was supposed to be triggered by keepers only) and she gets most of the critical dialogue if she is in the squad so she ends up constantly insulting Shepard's skills ("I sure hope you know what you are doing") all the time which will get on one's nerves quickly. Then ME2 happened where the VS went full retard ("I was dead for two years!" - "But why didn't you call me?")

[Dieb]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...
You're not the only one. I've been saying it for over a year now how smart Ashley is. If Miranda had installed that control chip in Shepard, and then he went rogue at some point, guess which party member would've been a lot more difficult to take by surprise.

Certaintly wouldn't have been everyone's favorite turian or quarian.

I'm not saying she's particularly smarter than other characters - Garrus and Tali have a reason for trusting Shepard. Ashley does not. However, both of those viewpoints came to be purely by chance. Nobody chooses another person's first impression on them, even less so the second time.

I trust Ashley in the same way that I trust Zaeed: To shoot me in the face while I'm awake, armed and facing them.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 24 octobre 2013 - 12:58 .

[crimzontearz]

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

So, when push came to shove, when it was time for friends to show support and trust the old crew, ALL THE OLD CREW is there....Ashley is not. And her streak of idiocy continues un ME3.

Sorry, that is just not something I will condone.

Of course some will say the same about Liara and her little Faux Pas in ME2...BUT she redeems herself in LOTSB, I am sure it is not enough for some but had Ashley had something like LOTSB I would be less harsh on her. It also does not help at ALL that Bioware did this because "they wanted to track the cheaters"...translation, they wanted to push is in the arms of someone else

Modifié par crimzontearz, 24 octobre 2013 - 01:03 .

[Wulfram]

I just prefer Liara is all.

Though I enjoyed Ashley's ME1 romance more than I expected once I got round to it.

[SNascimento]

I'm ok with Ash.

And one thing I do like about her is that she doesn't seen to kiss Shepard's ass every chance she has. You can actually have her hating you when you kill her.

[brad2240]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

1. Ashley isn't going to appeal to players who only look at characters 1 dimensionally. If you're the type that dislikes her because "She's a religious xenophobe!" then I'm sorry but you don't understand her or people in general.

2. She's very opinionated and doesn't just go with everything Shepard says like everyone else does. This makes her a very appealing character to me, but others are too used to having the rest of the squad love and agree with their Shepard constantly. This makes Ashley stand out more. In all honesty she's one of the more intelligent people in the game. She was completely right to be cautious. Let's not forget just how close Miranda came to installing a control chip in Shepard.

crimzontearz wrote...

So she is not only blind but dumb and a poor friend who continues her path of idiocy in ME3
 

Exercising caution would be an example of someone who is not blind and dumb.

Excellent post, sir! I agree with you 100%.

Ash has always been one of my favorite characters. She's strong and has her own mind, which is a lot more attractive to me than just blind Shepard worship. She stuck to what she believes in on Horizon, didn't just give up her life or her responsibilities to follow Shep like a puppy, and that makes her romance all the more interesting.

[Mathias]

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

So, when push came to shove, when it was time for friends to show support and trust the old crew, ALL THE OLD CREW is there....Ashley is not. And her streak of idiocy continues un ME3.

Sorry, that is just not something I will condone.

Of course some will say the same about Liara and her little Faux Pas in ME2...BUT she redeems herself in LOTSB, I am sure it is not enough for some but had Ashley had something like LOTSB I would be less harsh on her. It also does not help at ALL that Bioware did this because "they wanted to track the cheaters"...translation, they wanted to push is in the arms of someone else

And if Miranda had installed that control chip and Shepard went rogue, then what? Let's say after Sur'kesh TIM said to himself "You know what, I can't keep having him interfer with my plans. Intiate order 84." Shepard is then controlled by TIM and ordered to kill every key member of the Normandy one by one. Who'd be able to stop him?

[The Night Mammoth]

Why does that hypothetical matter? Shepard wasn't implanted with a control chip.

[RatThing]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why does that hypothetical matter? Shepard wasn't implanted with a control chip.

And how does she suppose to know that? Control chips seem to be pretty common in the Mass Effect Universe.

[crimzontearz]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

So, when push came to shove, when it was time for friends to show support and trust the old crew, ALL THE OLD CREW is there....Ashley is not. And her streak of idiocy continues un ME3.

Sorry, that is just not something I will condone.

Of course some will say the same about Liara and her little Faux Pas in ME2...BUT she redeems herself in LOTSB, I am sure it is not enough for some but had Ashley had something like LOTSB I would be less harsh on her. It also does not help at ALL that Bioware did this because "they wanted to track the cheaters"...translation, they wanted to push is in the arms of someone else

And if Miranda had installed that control chip and Shepard went rogue, then what? Let's say after Sur'kesh TIM said to himself "You know what, I can't keep having him interfer with my plans. Intiate order 84." Shepard is then controlled by TIM and ordered to kill every key member of the Normandy one by one. Who'd be able to stop him?

What is Kaidan was a sleeper agent? What if Anderson was indoctrinated? What if Vega was a Cerberus infiltrator?

It does not matter and it does not excuse her behavior in ME3 at all. All these "what ifs" come down to "do I trust Shepard or not" she chose "nope, I do not". At the end it is THAT simple.

[Mcfly616]

I don't think the BSN amounts to "so many" people. Nor would I take much of what BSNers have to say seriously. For the most part it's a community of hipsters. It's just cool to hate on what other people like. Or just cool to hate on anything at all, if not everything lol

If I remember correctly, Liara is the most romanced character? Here on BSN she's the "stalker blueberry psycho lurker worst character ever to be a writers pet".

Geth sympathizers hate on Destroyers for sacrificing a faction of machines that they never really saw as people anyway.

Basically everyone here hates on Synthesis. However, nearly every gamer I come across in person seems to have chosen it and liked it. Weird.

People will hate on Williams for any number of reasons. Hell, people complain that she put some blush on and let her hair down. Whoopdi doo. As for her nagging Shepard about Cerberus, I thought it was quite realistic. Like, if there was ever a legitimate reason to nag somebody you care about, that would seem to be it. Anybody who hasn't met a female like that, hasn't been around too many females at all.

[Dieb]

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

I'm not gonna describe my version of all those POVs in great detail, suffice it to say everyone either happens to be put in circumstances that are different or doesn't care enough to begin with - also Anderson backing Shepard in front of the council does not mean he's 100% on his side, but he doesn't rule anything out. (I don't know what you're talking about with Hackett - as in I honestly can't remember.)

Bottom line: Not trusting someone entirely does not mean being against them.

At the end of it, I'm not nearly as vigorous about this as you are. You interpret things differently, and that's absolutely fine by me. I enjoyed all the interactions throughout the trilogy, but maybe my choice of characters I care about was just a lucky one.

[Navasha]

Any real relationship that is more than just giving lip service to being "friends" is based on trust. Ashley doesn't trust Shepard and hence there can never be any real relationship there.

[RatThing]

crimzontearz wrote...

What is Kaidan was a sleeper agent? What if Anderson was indoctrinated? What if Vega was a Cerberus infiltrator?

It does not matter and it does not excuse her behavior in ME3 at all. All these "what ifs" come down to "do I trust Shepard or not" she chose "nope, I do not". At the end it is THAT simple.

Again it is THAT simple because you are the player who knows it all best. It wouldn't be THAT simple if you had the other perspective here. Tali and Wrex trusted Shepard till the end. For some Shepards out there they probably shouldn't have.

[crimzontearz]

It is not interpretation

Fact: Anderson backed Shepard
Fact: Hackett backed Shepard
Fact: Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Liara, Joker and Chackwas trust Shepard
Fact: Ashley did not...and well into ME3 for that matter (while starting from the same preamble as the others)

it is just. that. simple.

[crimzontearz]

RatThing wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

What is Kaidan was a sleeper agent? What if Anderson was indoctrinated? What if Vega was a Cerberus infiltrator?

It does not matter and it does not excuse her behavior in ME3 at all. All these "what ifs" come down to "do I trust Shepard or not" she chose "nope, I do not". At the end it is THAT simple.

Again it is THAT simple because you are the player who knows it all best. It wouldn't be THAT simple if you had the other perspective here. Tali and Wrex trusted Shepard till the end. For some Shepards out there they probably shouldn't have.

and even in THAT case Ashley's suspicion of Shepard being just a replicant or a tool are unfounded....which is not to say those Shepards were not total dicks

[RatThing]

Who backed Shepard is irrelevant to me. What's relevant is, are there reasons not to. And yeah, there are tons of reasons as already explained.

Modifié par RatThing, 24 octobre 2013 - 01:37 .

[Mcfly616]

Navasha wrote...
Ashley doesn't trust Shepard and hence there can never be any real relationship there.

that's realistic...

[AlexMBrennan]

and even in THAT case Ashley's suspicion of Shepard being just a replicant or a tool are unfounded

They are hardly unfounded - Shepard chose to work with Cerberus rather than return to the Alliance, after all.

Sure, the player was never given a choice and will thus rationalize (i.e. invent reasons) why Shepard becoming a terrorist (something the players knows to be bad) is not bad to resolve this conflict but the fact remains that Ash is right and that Shepard should have been executed for his crimes based on applicable law.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I've detested Ashley since she opened her mouth for the first time in ME1 (on the Normandy). I was never impressed or felt any kind of connection or like for her character at all.

[RatThing]

crimzontearz wrote...

and even in THAT case Ashley's suspicion of Shepard being just a replicant or a tool are unfounded....which is not to say those Shepards were not total dicks

Oh yeah, totally unfounded given the fact that they rebuilt a dead man. Given the fact that control chips and cloning are apparently possible in MEU. Sure <_<