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[crimzontearz]

RatThing wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
and again it comes down to trust, Ash has none, thus I have no compassion for her.

Also, Csec Scans can pick up gene mods and even cloning degradation. Cerberus might know what they are doing (OMG I cannot say that with a straight face) but so do chackwas and C-sec

All I can say to this is some people who are more about trust and friendship (and rainbows and butterflies) than common sence might want to stick to my little pony instead. 

and people who fail to take a contextual, critical and through approach to suspicion should stick with doomsday preppers....

[crimzontearz]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

which crimes?

Being a member of a terrorist organisation? The Asari councillor called for Shepard's execution because being a member of a terrorist organisation is a capital offence in Citadel space.

Seriously, have you never heard of Gitmo? How can "terrorism is bad" be a new and confounding idea for BSN dwellers?

[And before you try to use the Spectre excuse, no, Shepard was not a Spectre at that point because he was only later reinstated]

Yep, and she chose not to (also, Shepard was technically not a member of Cerberus, no more than Vasir was part of the Shadow Broker's entourage)

[RatThing]

crimzontearz wrote...

RatThing wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
and again it comes down to trust, Ash has none, thus I have no compassion for her.

Also, Csec Scans can pick up gene mods and even cloning degradation. Cerberus might know what they are doing (OMG I cannot say that with a straight face) but so do chackwas and C-sec

All I can say to this is some people who are more about trust and friendship (and rainbows and butterflies) than common sence might want to stick to my little pony instead. 

and people who fail to take a contextual, critical and through approach to suspicion should stick with doomsday preppers....

Easy to say when you actually have the context in contrast to the character.

[crimzontearz]

RatThing wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

RatThing wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
and again it comes down to trust, Ash has none, thus I have no compassion for her.

Also, Csec Scans can pick up gene mods and even cloning degradation. Cerberus might know what they are doing (OMG I cannot say that with a straight face) but so do chackwas and C-sec

All I can say to this is some people who are more about trust and friendship (and rainbows and butterflies) than common sence might want to stick to my little pony instead. 

and people who fail to take a contextual, critical and through approach to suspicion should stick with doomsday preppers....

Easy to say when you actually have the context in contrast to the character.

oh she does too, she just conveniently ignores it (of course, as much as in game terms and roleplay terms it infuriates me I also know it was not much in character up to that point, and felt idiotically forced)

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

which crimes?

Being a member of a terrorist organisation? The Asari councillor called for Shepard's execution because being a member of a terrorist organisation is a capital offence in Citadel space.

Seriously, have you never heard of Gitmo? How can "terrorism is bad" be a new and confounding idea for BSN dwellers?

[And before you try to use the Spectre excuse, no, Shepard was not a Spectre at that point because he was only later reinstated]

Because Cerberus aren't terrorists.

I'm an OEF vet. I've engaged combatants who could qualify as terrorists. By my own experience, Cerberus are not terrorists. 

The word terrorist (along with terrorism itself) is a rather subjective term. Can you really ascribe an action by any entity as not befitting of the word terrorism by anyone else? I think of Cerberus as unfettered at best, well-intentioned extremists at worst, who are simply doing what is necessary to accomplish their goal which I completely agree with.

I don't subscribe to your, or the council's, definition of terrorism. I think that they're wrong in their assertion and not to be entangled with since I hold myself above their view of morality. 

I do this because their view of morality, law, and ethics hinders my ability to accomplish my goals.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 24 octobre 2013 - 02:52 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

which crimes?

Being a member of a terrorist organisation? The Asari councillor called for Shepard's execution because being a member of a terrorist organisation is a capital offence in Citadel space.

Seriously, have you never heard of Gitmo? How can "terrorism is bad" be a new and confounding idea for BSN dwellers?

[And before you try to use the Spectre excuse, no, Shepard was not a Spectre at that point because he was only later reinstated]

Because Cerberus aren't terrorists.

I'm an OEF vet. I've engaged combatants who could qualify as terrorists. By my own experience, Cerberus are not terrorists. 

The word terrorist (along with terrorism itself) is a rather subjective term. Can you really ascribe an action by any entity as not befitting of the word terrorism by anyone else? I think of Cerberus as unfettered at best, well-intentioned extremists at worst, who are simply doing what is necessary to accomplish their goal which I completely agree with.

I don't subscribe to your, or the council's, definition of terrorism. I think that they're wrong in their assertion and not to be entangled with since I hold myself above their view of morality.

They are not terrorist, but they are a cabal and enemies of the Council and Alliance.

[Anthadlas]

Waah Waah Waah Squad Deaths, Waah Waah Waah Aliens, Waah Waah Waah Cerberus, Waah Waah Waah Poetry.

[RatThing]

I don't think it matters here what Cerberus is but what the VS can know about them here. All (s)he knows is that they are not a part of any official government (any more) that they killed Alliance soldiers and that they conducted some crazy and dangerous experiments for whatever reason. That'd be enough to label them as terrorists. Massively, I'm pretty sure you weren't a cerberus sympathisant from the very first game, were you?

Modifié par RatThing, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:00 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Waah Waah Waah Squad Deaths, Waah Waah Waah Aliens, Waah Waah Waah Cerberus, Waah Waah Waah Poetry.

Sounds like Ashley right there. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

RatThing wrote...

I don't think it matters here what Cerberus is but what the VS can know about them here. All (s)he knows is that they are not a part of any official government (any more) that they killed Alliance soldiers and that they conducted some crazy and dangerous experiments for whatever reason. That'd be enough to label them as terrorists. Massively, I'm pretty sure you weren't a cerberus sympathisant from the very first game, were you?

No, but I never outright hated them. I never had any information about them. They were simply a group who was obstructive to goals I was trying to accomplish. They're motives, intentions, and goals are never revealed in ME1. I don't hold any action as inherently evil - anything is acceptable if there's a good enough reason for it. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Lizardviking wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

which crimes?

Being a member of a terrorist organisation? The Asari councillor called for Shepard's execution because being a member of a terrorist organisation is a capital offence in Citadel space.

Seriously, have you never heard of Gitmo? How can "terrorism is bad" be a new and confounding idea for BSN dwellers?

[And before you try to use the Spectre excuse, no, Shepard was not a Spectre at that point because he was only later reinstated]

Because Cerberus aren't terrorists.

I'm an OEF vet. I've engaged combatants who could qualify as terrorists. By my own experience, Cerberus are not terrorists. 

The word terrorist (along with terrorism itself) is a rather subjective term. Can you really ascribe an action by any entity as not befitting of the word terrorism by anyone else? I think of Cerberus as unfettered at best, well-intentioned extremists at worst, who are simply doing what is necessary to accomplish their goal which I completely agree with.

I don't subscribe to your, or the council's, definition of terrorism. I think that they're wrong in their assertion and not to be entangled with since I hold myself above their view of morality.

They are not terrorist, but they are a cabal and enemies of the Council and Alliance.

Yes, but not by their own volition. That's how the alliance and the council labels them. As far as that goes, my Shepard more or less is an enemy to the alliance and the council as well, but they need him as their disposable hero too much. Cerberus doesn't give a damn about being enemies or allies. They have their goals and agenda, and, until the Reapers gain control, that's all that Cerberus cares about.

[Anthadlas]

RatThing wrote...

I don't think it matters here what Cerberus is but what the VS can know about them here. All (s)he knows is that they are not a part of any official government (any more) that they killed Alliance soldiers and that they conducted some crazy and dangerous experiments for whatever reason. That'd be enough to label them as terrorists. Massively, I'm pretty sure you weren't a cerberus sympathisant from the very first game, were you?

I still find it funny that even though Kaiden also distrusts Cerberus he seems to remain a decent but very principled guy, Ashley just becomes a douchebag and never turns back

[The Night Mammoth]

RatThing wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why does that hypothetical matter? Shepard wasn't implanted with a control chip.

And how does she suppose to know that?

By looking at the situation and the preceeding series of events in a rational and logical manner? 

Even assuming there's a concerning possiblility, how is Ashley going to prove it? What's she going to do about it in the middle of a mission, or ever? Why does it even matter at the time if Shepard's clearly not under someone else's control?

Control chips seem to be pretty common in the Mass Effect Universe.

According to what?

[Hazegurl]

Baelrahn wrote...

I'm not trying to force you into liking a character I'm fond of, but I'm just surprised how I appear to be the only one who actually appreciated the relationship twist. Especially the back-and-forth during the third game keeps it exciting. Ten times better than "let's stay besties and/or happy lovers with zero conflict for the entire game" if you ask me.

You're not alone. I love the VS a lot more *because* they challenged Shepard and had real conflict with him. It made hooking up with Kaidan the best because he was his own man and wasn't ready to just bow and scrap at Shepard's feet.  I'm doing a trilogy run right now and just finished ME1. I had Kaidan with me when we busted the Cerberus labs for the Kohaku mission and he mentioned Cerberus plans to create a super soldier.  I didn't catch that before.

Kaidan's(VS) mistrust of Shepard in ME2 makes even more sense with that piece of info. Who wouldn't use Shepard as a template to create that super soldier?   What I like about the fight in ME3 is that there seems to be hurt on both sides (at least that's the way I play it). Personally, I like to role play that my Shepard feels a bit raw about being called a traitor when no one in the Alliance offered him a way out. He feels raw but understands Kaidan's pov as well.

anyway, this is much more interesting than characters who mindlessly agree with every single thing Shep say and do and doesn't have much of a life beyond him.

[Anthadlas]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

RatThing wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why does that hypothetical matter? Shepard wasn't implanted with a control chip.

And how does she suppose to know that?

By looking at the situation and the preceeding series of events in a rational and logical manner? 

Even assuming there's a concerning possiblility, how is Ashley going to prove it? What's she going to do about it in the middle of a mission, or ever? Why does it even matter at the time if Shepard's clearly not under someone else's control?

Control chips seem to be pretty common in the Mass Effect Universe.

According to what?

Seems pretty stupid for Ashley to think that Shepard has a control chip when nobody before that point has presented it as a possibility or even mentioned or hinted at it.

For all I know everyone around me could be a Terminator disguised as a human but that doesn't mean I am going to go around presuming every person I meet is a robot unless they specifically tell me otherwise

[RatThing]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...
Waah Waah Waah Squad Deaths, Waah Waah Waah Aliens, Waah Waah Waah Cerberus, Waah Waah Waah Poetry.

Sounds like Ashley right there. 

Is that really necessary? Tbh, I could name some user who sounds like that whenever there's an Ashley thread open or whenever someone mentions Cerberus and terrorists in one post.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

RatThing wrote...

I don't think it matters here what Cerberus is but what the VS can know about them here. All (s)he knows is that they are not a part of any official government (any more) that they killed Alliance soldiers and that they conducted some crazy and dangerous experiments for whatever reason. That'd be enough to label them as terrorists. Massively, I'm pretty sure you weren't a cerberus sympathisant from the very first game, were you?

No, but I never outright hated them. I never had any information about them. They were simply a group who was obstructive to goals I was trying to accomplish. They're motives, intentions, and goals are never revealed in ME1. I don't hold any action as inherently evil - anything is acceptable if there's a good enough reason for it. 

All I'm saying's there is enough reason to distrust them on Horizon.

[crimzontearz]

Hazegurl wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...

I'm not trying to force you into liking a character I'm fond of, but I'm just surprised how I appear to be the only one who actually appreciated the relationship twist. Especially the back-and-forth during the third game keeps it exciting. Ten times better than "let's stay besties and/or happy lovers with zero conflict for the entire game" if you ask me.

You're not alone. I love the VS a lot more *because* they challenged Shepard and had real conflict with him. It made hooking up with Kaidan the best because he was his own man and wasn't ready to just bow and scrap at Shepard's feet.  I'm doing a trilogy run right now and just finished ME1. I had Kaidan with me when we busted the Cerberus labs for the Kohaku mission and he mentioned Cerberus plans to create a super soldier.  I didn't catch that before.

Kaidan's(VS) mistrust of Shepard in ME2 makes even more sense with that piece of info. Who wouldn't use Shepard as a template to create that super soldier?   What I like about the fight in ME3 is that there seems to be hurt on both sides (at least that's the way I play it). Personally, I like to role play that my Shepard feels a bit raw about being called a traitor when no one in the Alliance offered him a way out. He feels raw but understands Kaidan's pov as well.

anyway, this is much more interesting than characters who mindlessly agree with every single thing Shep say and do and doesn't have much of a life beyond him.

not if it is done for the sake of itself (as it was done here)

[crimzontearz]

RatThing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...
Waah Waah Waah Squad Deaths, Waah Waah Waah Aliens, Waah Waah Waah Cerberus, Waah Waah Waah Poetry.

Sounds like Ashley right there. 

Is that really necessary? Tbh, I could name some user who sounds like that whenever there's an Ashley thread open or whenever someone mentions Cerberus and terrorists in one post.

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

RatThing wrote...

I don't think it matters here what Cerberus is but what the VS can know about them here. All (s)he knows is that they are not a part of any official government (any more) that they killed Alliance soldiers and that they conducted some crazy and dangerous experiments for whatever reason. That'd be enough to label them as terrorists. Massively, I'm pretty sure you weren't a cerberus sympathisant from the very first game, were you?

No, but I never outright hated them. I never had any information about them. They were simply a group who was obstructive to goals I was trying to accomplish. They're motives, intentions, and goals are never revealed in ME1. I don't hold any action as inherently evil - anything is acceptable if there's a good enough reason for it. 

All I'm saying's there is enough reason to distrust them on Horizon.

that does not really help your point or her standing. Assuming that she is distrustful simply because of the Cerberus association means she chose to believe shut out all she knew about Shepard (and Garrus for that matter) and just walk away.

Not helpful in the least

[RatThing]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

RatThing wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why does that hypothetical matter? Shepard wasn't implanted with a control chip.

And how does she suppose to know that?

By looking at the situation and the preceeding series of events in a rational and logical manner? 

Even assuming there's a concerning possiblility, how is Ashley going to prove it? What's she going to do about it in the middle of a mission, or ever? Why does it even matter at the time if Shepard's clearly not under someone else's control?

Control chips seem to be pretty common in the Mass Effect Universe.

According to what?

Slavers use those to control their slaves.

[Steelcan]

If its any consolation I don't care for most of the LI options in ME.

Miranda just happens to be the best of the bunch.

[rekn2]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

which crimes?

Being a member of a terrorist organisation? The Asari councillor called for Shepard's execution because being a member of a terrorist organisation is a capital offence in Citadel space.

Seriously, have you never heard of Gitmo? How can "terrorism is bad" be a new and confounding idea for BSN dwellers?

[And before you try to use the Spectre excuse, no, Shepard was not a Spectre at that point because he was only later reinstated]

Because Cerberus aren't terrorists.

I'm an OEF vet. I've engaged combatants who could qualify as terrorists. By my own experience, Cerberus are not terrorists. 

The word terrorist (along with terrorism itself) is a rather subjective term. Can you really ascribe an action by any entity as not befitting of the word terrorism by anyone else? I think of Cerberus as unfettered at best, well-intentioned extremists at worst, who are simply doing what is necessary to accomplish their goal which I completely agree with.

I don't subscribe to your, or the council's, definition of terrorism. I think that they're wrong in their assertion and not to be entangled with since I hold myself above their view of morality. 

I do this because their view of morality, law, and ethics hinders my ability to accomplish my goals.

it doesnt matter what you think, the only thing that matters is what the council thinks...same as 1 OEF officer and the rest of the US government...they told you who to shoot at, without big brother i highly doubt you would even be in the situation.

big brother government says cerb is a terrorist org then shep commited a crime

[Anthadlas]

RatThing wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

RatThing wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why does that hypothetical matter? Shepard wasn't implanted with a control chip.

And how does she suppose to know that?

By looking at the situation and the preceeding series of events in a rational and logical manner? 

Even assuming there's a concerning possiblility, how is Ashley going to prove it? What's she going to do about it in the middle of a mission, or ever? Why does it even matter at the time if Shepard's clearly not under someone else's control?

Control chips seem to be pretty common in the Mass Effect Universe.

According to what?

Slavers use those to control their slaves.

No they don't, find any example or qoute that confirms that

And don't use the girl in ME1 that escaped from batarians because she was traumatised and mentally conditioned to do as she was told

[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

If its any consolation I don't care for most of the LI options in ME.

Miranda just happens to be the best of the bunch.

Those camara shots are clogging your mind. :innocent: