553 réponses à ce sujet

[Anthadlas]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

If its any consolation I don't care for most of the LI options in ME.

Miranda just happens to be the best of the bunch.

Those camara shots are clogging your mind. :innocent:

I'm gutted you changed your profile pic, change it back immediatley xD

[The Night Mammoth]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think of Cerberus as unfettered at best, well-intentioned extremists at worst, who are simply doing what is necessary to accomplish their goal which I completely agree with.

You support egotistical tyrants selfishly screwing over vast numbers of ordinary people in order to accumulate unnecesarily vast amounts of personal money and power and using it to run dangerous experiments they have almost no control over?

Or do you mean the whole 'advancing humanity' shtick that never amounted to anything?

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:35 .

[Steelcan]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

If its any consolation I don't care for most of the LI options in ME.

Miranda just happens to be the best of the bunch.

Those camara shots are clogging your mind. :innocent:

perhaps

[Hazegurl]

crimzontearz wrote...

not if it is done for the sake of itself (as it was done here)

Not sure what you mean. If you're saying the conflict was done just for the sake of conflict then I have to disagree with you. Just because other people follow and trust someone does not mean everyone has to. The VS is right to mistrust Shepard. IMO.

Shepard was reported dead for two years then shows up working for Cerberus. An organization with plans to create a super soldier.

Gee, guess who that super soldier turned out to be?

Or Shepard could have simply faked his death. He's still Cerberus' super soldier.

Cerberus also had Alliance soldiers turning over and working for them.

Cerberus themselves were Alliance black Ops.

Hackett himself is proven shady in ME1 when he sends renegade Shepard to "negotiate" with a criminal he helped set up and gave Alliance weapons to.

Miranda mentions at the start of ME2 that people will follow Shepard because of his icon status.

I see Joker, Liara, Garrus, Tali, and the rest just following their Iconic Shepard while the VS is able to stop and think about everything before following Shepard into the fire. Is the VS wrong? Yeah. But lots of people form their own opinions about something and is wrong about it, or their just to passionate and heated to listen. I can't speak for Ash but I do know that Kaidan thinks things through and the two(Shep and Kaidan) are able to clear the air later.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:37 .

[RatThing]

Wraith 02 wrote...

RatThing wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

RatThing wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why does that hypothetical matter? Shepard wasn't implanted with a control chip.

And how does she suppose to know that?

By looking at the situation and the preceeding series of events in a rational and logical manner? 

Even assuming there's a concerning possiblility, how is Ashley going to prove it? What's she going to do about it in the middle of a mission, or ever? Why does it even matter at the time if Shepard's clearly not under someone else's control?

Control chips seem to be pretty common in the Mass Effect Universe.

According to what?

Slavers use those to control their slaves.

No they don't, find any example or qoute that confirms that

And don't use the girl in ME1 that escaped from batarians because she was traumatised and mentally conditioned to do as she was told

I got this actually from Hannah Shepard.

www.youtube.com/watch

(somewhere after 2:00)

Anyhow, I see I've successfully derailed the thread. Great job there Rat <_<. I'm off.

[Barquiel]

While I agree that Chris L'Etoile's writing was pretty good and always found Ashley to be a very realistic and well crafted character in ME1 (that's why I usually save her on Virmire, at least she provokes an emotional response), she simply doesn't have many likeable personality traits imo. She is too narrow-minded. She wraps herself up in her own delusions and is overly-prejudice. And the VS not doing their job on Horizon is gross incompetence at best.

[CDR David Shepard]

rsperegrin1 wrote...
No matter how strong the female character traits are in the other girls, and appealing as they are in there unique way, Ashley is the perfect fit for Shepard.  Perfect!  She has it all wrapped up in one package that mirrors Shepherd.  Do you not agree? Why or why not?

My Shepard romance's Ashley in ME1...and then gets back together with her in ME3...because in my opinion...it simply flows with the story bioware made. (taking into account everything...such as dialogue and amount of screentime)

However, I think Miranda is the person you describe above.

She is the perfect fit for Shepard and she mirrors him.

My Shepard romance's Miranda in ME2...but not in ME3...simply because of the way the game was written.

The romances add to the story...and the rekindling romance of Ashley and Shepard was just written better and flowed better with the story than the Miranda/Shepard relationship in ME3.

Outside looking in though...Miranda is Shepards perfect match.


DISCLAIMER: This is simply my opinion.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:43 .

[AlexMBrennan]

. By my own experience, Cerberus are not terrorists.

Cerberus are rumoured to be behind spaceship "accidents" exposing human colonies to eezo (to create human biotics needed for their human dominance ideas) with massive collateral damage.

Or how about turning Chasca into a zombie ghost town? How about the colonies that got wiped out because someone sent them Rachni shipments? You are fine with all that?

Can you really ascribe an action by any entity as not befitting of the word terrorism by anyone else?

That's why we have laws. The appropriate authorities decide who goes on the list of terrorist organisations, and that's the end of it; if you want to live in their jurisdiction then you have to obey the applicable law.

[Artifex_Imperius]

welcome to BSN where Femshep rules. and Ashley is not a romance option. So Airlock it is.

[Anthadlas]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

. By my own experience, Cerberus are not terrorists.

Cerberus are rumoured to be behind spaceship "accidents" exposing human colonies to eezo (to create human biotics needed for their human dominance ideas) with massive collateral damage.

Or how about turning Chasca into a zombie ghost town? How about the colonies that got wiped out because someone sent them Rachni shipments? You are fine with all that?

Can you really ascribe an action by any entity as not befitting of the word terrorism by anyone else?

That's why we have laws. The appropriate authorities decide who goes on the list of terrorist organisations, and that's the end of it; if you want to live in their jurisdiction then you have to obey the applicable law.

The Salarians opened the relay's leading to a massive Rachni invasion, then prematurely uplifted a violent species and then used biological weapons against their entire species to control it. The only reason they got away with it was because they were a council race. Even in the Salarian base they are thinking of using Vorcha and Yharg as soldiers. Which is probably worse than using Thorian Creepers as they are actually sentiant.

Atleast Cerberus has good reasons behind doing these things rather than just being inept. Miranda explained well in the 2nd game the logic behind doing all these things. Everybody will call someone else a terrorist or murderer when they don't understand the reasoning behind it. Shepard included for blowing up a Mass Relay to save the galaxy in the process.

The things Cerberus were doing to get themselves labelled as terrorists were overall good ideas that would have helped against the Reaper invasion if it wasn't for indoctrination.

Modifié par Wraith 02, 24 octobre 2013 - 03:58 .

[crimzontearz]

Hazegurl wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

not if it is done for the sake of itself (as it was done here)

Not sure what you mean. If you're saying the conflict was done just for the sake of conflict then I have to disagree with you. Just because other people follow and trust someone does not mean everyone has to. The VS is right to mistrust Shepard. IMO.

Shepard was reported dead for two years then shows up working for Cerberus. An organization with plans to create a super soldier.

Gee, guess who that super soldier turned out to be?

Or Shepard could have simply faked his death. He's still Cerberus' super soldier.

Cerberus also had Alliance soldiers turning over and working for them.

Cerberus themselves were Alliance black Ops.

Hackett himself is proven shady in ME1 when he sends renegade Shepard to "negotiate" with a criminal he helped set up and gave Alliance weapons to.

Miranda mentions at the start of ME2 that people will follow Shepard because of his icon status.

I see Joker, Liara, Garrus, Tali, and the rest just following their Iconic Shepard while the VS is able to stop and think about everything before following Shepard into the fire. Is the VS wrong? Yeah. But lots of people form their own opinions about something and is wrong about it, or their just to passionate and heated to listen. I can't speak for Ash but I do know that Kaidan thinks things through and the two(Shep and Kaidan) are able to clear the air later.

Bioware stated that they would be "tracking the cheaters" and that there would be consequences and blah blah blah. What better way to push Shep into someone else's arms? Ever wonder WHY all the crew minus Ash (and Liara at first, but for different reasons and with the subsequent redemption in LOTSB) is ready to trust Shepard including Hackett and Anderson?

It smells A LOT like a forced thing

[The Night Mammoth]

Cerberus never had good reasons behind the things it did, and had very few good ideas.

[Anthadlas]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Cerberus never had good reasons behind the things it did, and had very few good ideas.

Creating expendable shock troops against the first wave of the Reaper invasion, saving millions of lives?

Being able to control Reapers and put an instant end to the war?

Their reasoning behind doing these things is brilliant, it's just their methods that are bad.

Anyway discussing why Ashley mistrusted Cerberus is pointless. The fact that she couldn't put her preconceptions aside for the sake of her's and Shepard's friendship shows that she has no trust in him and will forever be a jerk in my eyes

Modifié par Wraith 02, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:15 .

[shockky]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, we clash politically, Liara seems smarter (or at least a deeper thinker) overall, and nothing really specifically attracts me to her. Of course, even if it did, my Shepard couldn't romance her.

Not young enough for you, eh?

Modifié par shockky, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:10 .

[KR96]

I can kind of agree on the fact that Ashley has some right be somewhat suspicious of Shepard's involvement with Cerberus during ME2, but after seeing him in action on Horizon and even more so if Shepard destroyed the collector base, there should be very little doubt left concerning Shepard's allegiance..

Ashley is an okay person, which is perfectly fine as the Normandy is a bit of a freak show already. What's not that great however, is the fact that Ashley, especially whilst talking to her on the Normandy, has got nothing interesting to say. On the Citadel however, she can't stop talking about her family, sisters and dad. Some background information is fine, but there's really very little that piques my interest regarding where she comes from.

Other than that, she is the squadmate who resembles Shepard the most. She has seen a lot of action, is loyal to the alliance and is a spectre. She might make a good match in that respect, but when it comes to having something interesting to say or actually being interesting, pretty much every other female LI gets the better of her.

Modifié par killerrabbit1996, 24 octobre 2013 - 04:12 .

[rekn2]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think of Cerberus as unfettered at best, well-intentioned extremists at worst, who are simply doing what is necessary to accomplish their goal which I completely agree with.

You support egotistical tyrants selfishly screwing over vast numbers of ordinary people in order to accumulate unnecesarily vast amounts of personal money and power and using it to run dangerous experiments they have almost no control over?

Or do you mean the whole 'advancing humanity' shtick that never amounted to anything?

survival of the fittest...ordinary isnt usually synonymous with fittest

[The Night Mammoth]

Wraith 02 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Cerberus never had good reasons behind the things it did, and had very few good ideas.

Creating expendable shock troops against the first wave of the Reaper invasion, saving millions of lives?

You meaning creating expendable shock troops they could use to further their own ends.

Being able to control Reapers and put an instant end to the war?

Their reasons for controlling the Reapers were about harnessing a massive, invincible fleet of ships the Illusive Man could use to rule the galaxy. 

Their reasoning behind doing these things is brilliant, it's just their methods that are bad.

Cerberus only ever had selfish reasons for doing things. That'd be fine if furthering their own ends actually had something to do with supporting humanity or doing good. As it is, they only ever supported humanity once, and that was with project Lazarus (a pretty stupid idea given what happened with the Collectors), and in the end that was about aquiring Collector technology. 

[Hazegurl]

crimzontearz wrote...
Bioware stated that they would be "tracking the cheaters" and that there would be consequences and blah blah blah. What better way to push Shep into someone else's arms? Ever wonder WHY all the crew minus Ash (and Liara at first, but for different reasons and with the subsequent redemption in LOTSB) is ready to trust Shepard including Hackett and Anderson?

It smells A LOT like a forced thing

I'm sure some players cheated on their ME1 LIs out of anger but I don't see it as forced overall. Not everyone is faithful and new LIs were introduced. It is stupid for Bioware to do it based solely on wanting players to cheat but that's not how the player has to see it.

But I can only speak from my experience. My Shepard was gay and in love with Kaidan but did not (could not) romance Kaidan in 1 & 2. So he didn't (couldn't) cheat on him at all. The way I see it, Kaidan's mistrust of Shepard made him more attractive and more of a better partner for my Shepard. I admire Ash more for her mistrust of Shepard as well, she comes across as more of her own person whereas a character like Garrus seems more like a brown noser.

[Anthadlas]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Cerberus never had good reasons behind the things it did, and had very few good ideas.

Creating expendable shock troops against the first wave of the Reaper invasion, saving millions of lives?

You meaning creating expendable shock troops they could use to further their own ends.

Being able to control Reapers and put an instant end to the war?

Their reasons for controlling the Reapers were about harnessing a massive, invincible fleet of ships the Illusive Man could use to rule the galaxy. 

Their reasoning behind doing these things is brilliant, it's just their methods that are bad.

Cerberus only ever had selfish reasons for doing things. That'd be fine if furthering their own ends actually had something to do with supporting humanity or doing good. As it is, they only ever supported humanity once, and that was with project Lazarus (a pretty stupid idea given what happened with the Collectors), and in the end that was about aquiring Collector technology. 

Strength for Cerberus is strength for all of Humanity. This was actually true until they became indoctrinated and the writers tried to turn them into comic book bad guys.

[Mathias]

crimzontearz wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

So, when push came to shove, when it was time for friends to show support and trust the old crew, ALL THE OLD CREW is there....Ashley is not. And her streak of idiocy continues un ME3.

Sorry, that is just not something I will condone.

Of course some will say the same about Liara and her little Faux Pas in ME2...BUT she redeems herself in LOTSB, I am sure it is not enough for some but had Ashley had something like LOTSB I would be less harsh on her. It also does not help at ALL that Bioware did this because "they wanted to track the cheaters"...translation, they wanted to push is in the arms of someone else

And if Miranda had installed that control chip and Shepard went rogue, then what? Let's say after Sur'kesh TIM said to himself "You know what, I can't keep having him interfer with my plans. Intiate order 84." Shepard is then controlled by TIM and ordered to kill every key member of the Normandy one by one. Who'd be able to stop him?

What is Kaidan was a sleeper agent? What if Anderson was indoctrinated? What if Vega was a Cerberus infiltrator?

It does not matter and it does not excuse her behavior in ME3 at all. All these "what ifs" come down to "do I trust Shepard or not" she chose "nope, I do not". At the end it is THAT simple.

Not the same thing because all those people weren't killed and completely rebuilt by Cerberus.

[Mathias]

Lizardviking wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

So, when push came to shove, when it was time for friends to show support and trust the old crew, ALL THE OLD CREW is there....Ashley is not. And her streak of idiocy continues un ME3.

Sorry, that is just not something I will condone.

Of course some will say the same about Liara and her little Faux Pas in ME2...BUT she redeems herself in LOTSB, I am sure it is not enough for some but had Ashley had something like LOTSB I would be less harsh on her. It also does not help at ALL that Bioware did this because "they wanted to track the cheaters"...translation, they wanted to push is in the arms of someone else

And if Miranda had installed that control chip and Shepard went rogue, then what? Let's say after Sur'kesh TIM said to himself "You know what, I can't keep having him interfer with my plans. Intiate order 84." Shepard is then controlled by TIM and ordered to kill every key member of the Normandy one by one. Who'd be able to stop him?

Except that if Shepard bring either Garrus or Liara (or both) along that arguement would make no sense. Or does the VS believe that Liara and Garrus are all in on the big evil Cerberus conspiracy?

How would it not make sense? The chip in his brain activates, Shepard gets outta bed/shower/whaterver, casually walks into people's rooms and kills them one by one. Or maybe he'd sabotage the Normandy, destroy all escape pods but one and ditches the ship. Shepard doesn't have two squadmates following him at all times you know.

[Anthadlas]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

So, when push came to shove, when it was time for friends to show support and trust the old crew, ALL THE OLD CREW is there....Ashley is not. And her streak of idiocy continues un ME3.

Sorry, that is just not something I will condone.

Of course some will say the same about Liara and her little Faux Pas in ME2...BUT she redeems herself in LOTSB, I am sure it is not enough for some but had Ashley had something like LOTSB I would be less harsh on her. It also does not help at ALL that Bioware did this because "they wanted to track the cheaters"...translation, they wanted to push is in the arms of someone else

And if Miranda had installed that control chip and Shepard went rogue, then what? Let's say after Sur'kesh TIM said to himself "You know what, I can't keep having him interfer with my plans. Intiate order 84." Shepard is then controlled by TIM and ordered to kill every key member of the Normandy one by one. Who'd be able to stop him?

What is Kaidan was a sleeper agent? What if Anderson was indoctrinated? What if Vega was a Cerberus infiltrator?

It does not matter and it does not excuse her behavior in ME3 at all. All these "what ifs" come down to "do I trust Shepard or not" she chose "nope, I do not". At the end it is THAT simple.

Not the same thing because all those people weren't killed and completely rebuilt by Cerberus.

Yeah because when Shepard saves the human colony that Ash is stationed on that is unable to defend itself due to her own incompetance, whilst being flanked by previous Normandy crew members who are clearly not being controlled by Cerberus It is still perfectly reasonable for her to completely distrust Shepard's motives and believe that he has suddenly turned against humanity and the Alliance despite serving them for many years and being considered a hero for his previous actions.

Being with Cerberus no matter who you are or what your past history is clearly means you have turned into Satan himself.

Or... It might be possible Ash is a crazy **** who thinks any organisation not in the Alliance is totally evil as shown by her previous Xenophobia

[Mathias]

Are people seriously kidding themselves here? You really didn't find it strange how incredibly quick people trusted Shepard in ME2. That guy was dead for 2 years, and his body was rebuilt by an organization who have a reputation of being extremists and committing atrocities. The only person who had an excuse to trust Shepard right away was Liara, because she delivered his body to them. But EVEN THEN she should've been a little wary.

If you were in any of the character's shoes and you trusted Shepard right away without question, without hesitation, without even a thought, then you're an incredibly easy target. I bet you open the door to people at 2am in the morning who claim they're pizza delivery.