553 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...BULL****

Garrus, Tali, Liara and Wrex (and more, joker, chakwas and even Adams in ME3) have no issues believing Shepard and trusting him in spite of the paintjob of the Normandy.

Sure Anderson is wary of Cerberus but he backs Shepard immediately and defends him with the council. The council reinstates him as a spectre, which is not to be taken as an intimidating thing but more that he is, even in their eyes, still trustworthy enough.

Hackett is NOT a tricky thing, he specifically orders the fleet NOT to get in Shepard's way, yes, he has him covered.

So, when push came to shove, when it was time for friends to show support and trust the old crew, ALL THE OLD CREW is there....Ashley is not. And her streak of idiocy continues un ME3.

Sorry, that is just not something I will condone.

Of course some will say the same about Liara and her little Faux Pas in ME2...BUT she redeems herself in LOTSB, I am sure it is not enough for some but had Ashley had something like LOTSB I would be less harsh on her. It also does not help at ALL that Bioware did this because "they wanted to track the cheaters"...translation, they wanted to push is in the arms of someone else

And if Miranda had installed that control chip and Shepard went rogue, then what? Let's say after Sur'kesh TIM said to himself "You know what, I can't keep having him interfer with my plans. Intiate order 84." Shepard is then controlled by TIM and ordered to kill every key member of the Normandy one by one. Who'd be able to stop him?

Except that if Shepard bring either Garrus or Liara (or both) along that arguement would make no sense. Or does the VS believe that Liara and Garrus are all in on the big evil Cerberus conspiracy?

How would it not make sense? The chip in his brain activates, Shepard gets outta bed/shower/whaterver, casually walks into people's rooms and kills them one by one. Or maybe he'd sabotage the Normandy, destroy all escape pods but one and ditches the ship. Shepard doesn't have two squadmates following him at all times you know.

yeah it makes sense that Cerberus would bring Shepard back to life for billions of credits and then use him to destroy all their own assets

The Normandy in ME3 belonged to the Alliance by that point. Not to mention this takes place 6 months after Shepard leaves Cerberus. Did you even play the game?

I played the game. I don't know why I left Cerberus at the end of ME2. Nor do I know why the alliance has stolen my ship and put their logo's all over it like a jealous younger sibling stealing their brother's toy. It's alright though, my Shepard will be blasting some people for a while.

[Han Shot First]

Even if Cerberus didn't return as indoctrinated goons it was all but guaranteed that Shepard would still return to the Alliance. Cerberus wasn't going to win the Reaper war. It was a small organization that didn't number more than a few thousand people, and prior to ME3 had no fleet to speak of. Also its 'humanity first' ideology was doomed to failure in a war that requires cooperation with multiple species. Storywise, Shepard with Cerberus in ME3 would not have made a lick of sense.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Han Shot First wrote...

Even if Cerberus didn't return as indoctrinated goons it was all but guaranteed that Shepard would still return to the Alliance. Cerberus wasn't going to win the Reaper war. It was a small organization that didn't number more than a few thousand people, and prior to ME3 had no fleet to speak of. Also its 'humanity first' ideology was doomed to failure in a war that requires cooperation with multiple species. Storywise, Shepard with Cerberus in ME3 would not have made a lick of sense.

Maybe, but a ME3 where Shepard cooperates with Cerberus would have.

[Han Shot First]

Cooperation could have worked.

I still think Bioware had the right idea in making TIM a pawn of the Reapers however. Where I think they goofed is having that practically be revealed at Mars, barely 20 minutes into the game. It would have worked a lot better had Cerberus returned as what seemed like allies in the beginning, only to have them betray Shepard at Thessia. The indoctrination angle should have been a twist, rather than something revealed to the player at the start.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 24 octobre 2013 - 11:03 .

[Urazz]

Han Shot First wrote...

Cooperation could have worked.

I still think Bioware had the right idea in making TIM a pawn of the Reapers however. Where I think they goofed is having that practically be revealed at Mars, barely 20 minutes into the game. It would have worked a lot better had Cerberus returned as what seemed like allies in the beginning, only to have them betray Shepard at Thessia. The indoctrination angle should have been a twist, rather than something revealed to the player at the start.

This actually would've worked out quite well I think.  But then again, we would've been fighting nothing but Reaper forces all throughout the game for the most part.  Maybe if Thessia happened earlier in the game like at the halfway point.

Another option would've been having Cerberus split in half, with half of them going with Miranda or Jacob (or some random mook if both are dead) and the other half being the half that we fight.

As for the original topic, I think Ashley was fine in ME1 and would've stayed with her as a LI all through the entire series if she didn't turn into quite the ****, but that just didn't happen.

Modifié par Urazz, 25 octobre 2013 - 12:23 .

[eyezonlyii]

Urazz wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Cooperation could have worked.

I still think Bioware had the right idea in making TIM a pawn of the Reapers however. Where I think they goofed is having that practically be revealed at Mars, barely 20 minutes into the game. It would have worked a lot better had Cerberus returned as what seemed like allies in the beginning, only to have them betray Shepard at Thessia. The indoctrination angle should have been a twist, rather than something revealed to the player at the start.

This actually would've worked out quite well I think.  But then again, we would've been fighting nothing but Reaper forces all throughout the game for the most part.  Maybe if Thessia happened earlier in the game like at the halfway point.

Another option would've been having Cerberus split in half, with half of them going with Miranda or Jacob (or some random mook if both are dead) and the other half being the half that we fight.

that would have been awesome. I actually expected this when i first saw miranda.

[Excella Gionne]

I have Kaidan in my saves, but I do have one with Ashley too, but I never really play that one....

[eyezonlyii]

johnnythao89 wrote...

I have Kaidan in my saves, but I do have one with Ashley too, but I never really play that one....

me too. it's hard for me to save her. not because i dislike her, but because i like him more (plus it make the most in-universe sense)

[SiniisteR]

Han Shot First wrote...

The indoctrination angle should have been a twist, rather than something revealed to the player at the start.

Does the idea of realising some Cerberus soldiers were indoctrinated at the start, and the fact that it was TiM's own doing was part of the twist sound believable? Because that would seem possible to me

[Xilizhra]

I would much, much rather have had Shepard working for the Council directly instead of the Alliance. I always considered Shepard's Spectre status to be more important than the "Alliance soldier" part.

[eyezonlyii]

Xilizhra wrote...

I would much, much rather have had Shepard working for the Council directly instead of the Alliance. I always considered Shepard's Spectre status to be more important than the "Alliance soldier" part.

true. I think it was kind of silly to give us SPECTRE status and then have hackett direct us for the game. I think it should have been Council ME1/Cerb ME2/Alliance ME3

[Xilizhra]

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I would much, much rather have had Shepard working for the Council directly instead of the Alliance. I always considered Shepard's Spectre status to be more important than the "Alliance soldier" part.

true. I think it was kind of silly to give us SPECTRE status and then have hackett direct us for the game. I think it should have been Council ME1/Cerb ME2/Alliance ME3

Actually, I wanted the Council to come back for ME3.

[eyezonlyii]

Xilizhra wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I would much, much rather have had Shepard working for the Council directly instead of the Alliance. I always considered Shepard's Spectre status to be more important than the "Alliance soldier" part.

true. I think it was kind of silly to give us SPECTRE status and then have hackett direct us for the game. I think it should have been Council ME1/Cerb ME2/Alliance ME3

Actually, I wanted the Council to come back for ME3.

i figure, 3 factions, 3 games. just to get some perspective

[Xilizhra]

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I would much, much rather have had Shepard working for the Council directly instead of the Alliance. I always considered Shepard's Spectre status to be more important than the "Alliance soldier" part.

true. I think it was kind of silly to give us SPECTRE status and then have hackett direct us for the game. I think it should have been Council ME1/Cerb ME2/Alliance ME3

Actually, I wanted the Council to come back for ME3.

i figure, 3 factions, 3 games. just to get some perspective

We already had Alliance out the ass in ME1. By ME3, it should really be a galactic matter and not an Earth one.

[Hazegurl]

eyezonlyii wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
I'm sure some players cheated on their ME1 LIs out of anger but I don't see it as forced overall. Not everyone is faithful and new LIs were introduced. It is stupid for Bioware to do it based solely on wanting players to cheat but that's not how the player has to see it.

But I can only speak from my experience. My Shepard was gay and in love with Kaidan but did not (could not) romance Kaidan in 1 & 2. So he didn't (couldn't) cheat on him at all. The way I see it, Kaidan's mistrust of Shepard made him more attractive and more of a better partner for my Shepard. I admire Ash more for her mistrust of Shepard as well, she comes across as more of her own person whereas a character like Garrus seems more like a brown noser.

This entirely. Kaidan distrusting my Shepard made me want him all the more because I had to prove i was worth it to him. I only romanced one other person (jack) on my friend's xbox before I got ME2 for my ps3, and that was more because she was so standoffish too. What's funny to me is that the alien LI's are much more inclined to jump in the sack and trust Shep with the world than the human ones are.

I noticed that too. The aliens are so "easy" to get while the player has to work more for the human relationships. I wonder if it's a case of the writers favoring the alien relationships and thus wanting the fans to favor them, too. idk, Most players do seem to have a "How dare X question me!" outlook so I can see that as a possibility but IMO, it makes the human relationships different and even more enduring in some cases. None of the aliens will cheat on you and get another woman pregnant (Jacob), Tell you to frak off (Jack), Put you in your place (Miranda), or challenge your very existence (Kaidan & Ash).  The aliens are supposed to be...perfect.

[Hazegurl]

Han Shot First wrote...

Cooperation could have worked.

I still think Bioware had the right idea in making TIM a pawn of the Reapers however. Where I think they goofed is having that practically be revealed at Mars, barely 20 minutes into the game. It would have worked a lot better had Cerberus returned as what seemed like allies in the beginning, only to have them betray Shepard at Thessia. The indoctrination angle should have been a twist, rather than something revealed to the player at the start.

I agree, it would have been much better if it was done like this. Have the betrayal come at a big surprise. Heck even have Kei Lame as a part of the crew for most of the game.

[David7204]

What exactly does putting Leng on the crew accomplish for Cerberus?

[Xilizhra]

I noticed that too. The aliens are so "easy" to get while the player has to work more for the human relationships. I wonder if it's a case of the writers favoring the alien relationships and thus wanting the fans to favor them, too. idk, Most players do seem to have a "How dare X question me!" outlook so I can see that as a possibility but IMO, it makes the human relationships different and even more enduring in some cases. None of the aliens will cheat on you and get another woman pregnant (Jacob), Tell you to frak off (Jack), Put you in your place (Miranda), or challenge your very existence (Kaidan & Ash). The aliens are supposed to be...perfect.

Does Miranda ever successfully "put Shepard in her place?" I don't recall this.

[Teddie Sage]

I going to sound like a biased fanboy but Kaidan will always be my favourite for the VS. I watched a bunch of videos for Ashley and she shares a lot of lines with Kaidan in Mass Effect 3, which made me cringe. I realized that both became the same character with different appearances, similar fates and maybe a few differences here and there. At least their romances were different and their interactions with Shepard changed while on the Normandy in casual outfits... I still prefer Kaidan over Ashley. Next to the other female characters, she just... Meh... I don't like her. I wish I did, but nope. I just don't...

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 25 octobre 2013 - 02:27 .

[Jorji Costava]

David7204 wrote...

What exactly does putting Leng on the crew accomplish for Cerberus?

I guess Leng could accomplish whatever it was Thane was recruited to do; they are supposd to have similar skills, after all. From an out-of-game perspective, being forced to work with Leng might contribute to developing a history between Shepard and Leng, which could add some weight to the sense of rivalry between these characters that ME3 was pretty clearly trying to create.

Returning to the original topic, I guess that at least some of the dislike for Ashley stems from how thie VS situation was handled in ME2. Ashley refuses to join Cerberus, a pro-human terrorist organization, but your alien buddies from ME1 have seemingly little problem with it. It's difficult to view both of these actions in a sympathetic light. If you think Ashley's doubts are reasonable, then how should you judge Tali and Garrus for not having those doubts, given that, being aliens, they have all the more reason to distrust Cerberus? But because Tali and Garrus are much more popular, people ended up turning against the VS.

I made a suggestion on these boards a long time ago on how this could have been rectified with a relative minimum of effort. You could have Ashley/Kaiden become the next human spectre during that two-year interval between ME1 and ME2; they established themselves as suitable candidates by winning some particularly vicious engagements with Cerberus. This would (a) explain what the hell they've been doing with themselves in that two-year span, ( give them credibility as capable soldiers who can accomplish things apart from Shepard, and © give them a reason to not join up with Shepard that even the alien characters wouldn't necessarily have. It would also give Ashley an interesting personal conflict; whereas the Alliance, to whom she's been loyal the whole time, had largely kicked her to the curb, the Council, who she distrusts, have put her in a position of power and responsibility, a tension that would test her loyalties and provide the basis for an interesting character arc. Just my two cents.

[Xilizhra]

Honestly, I have nothing against people disagreeing with me (depending on what it is, of course; people disagreeing with me on whether or not human supremacy is good might be a dealbreaker), but from what I can tell, the VS' unfounded suspicion of Shepard is based primarily on cognitive dissonance and a too-rigid perception of Shepard's loyalties, not actual caution, and even older and more experienced people who knew Shepard are inclined to trust her. In fact, every single one of Shepard's old associates falls into this, aside from them, regardless of intelligence/trust levels. I find it very difficult to believe that the VS' fears have much grounding in reality.