553 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Miranda put Shepard in his place...


If you know what I mean

[Hazegurl]

Xilizhra wrote...

I noticed that too. The aliens are so "easy" to get while the player has to work more for the human relationships. I wonder if it's a case of the writers favoring the alien relationships and thus wanting the fans to favor them, too. idk, Most players do seem to have a "How dare X question me!" outlook so I can see that as a possibility but IMO, it makes the human relationships different and even more enduring in some cases. None of the aliens will cheat on you and get another woman pregnant (Jacob), Tell you to frak off (Jack), Put you in your place (Miranda), or challenge your very existence (Kaidan & Ash). The aliens are supposed to be...perfect.

Does Miranda ever successfully[/i] "put Shepard in her place?" I don't recall this.

 If you talk crap to Miranda and try to tell her who's boss she'll pretty much let you know that it's TIM and not you.

Steelcan wrote...

Miranda put Shepard in his place...


If you know what I mean

The floor the of the Engineering room.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 25 octobre 2013 - 02:40 .

[Xilizhra]

If you talk crap to Miranda and try to tell her who's boss she'll pretty much let you know that it's TIM and not you.

Temporarily.

Also, I'm curious as to your response to my last post on the bottom of the last page.

[eyezonlyii]

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, I have nothing against people disagreeing with me (depending on what it is, of course; people disagreeing with me on whether or not human supremacy is good might be a dealbreaker), but from what I can tell, the VS' unfounded suspicion of Shepard is based primarily on cognitive dissonance and a too-rigid perception of Shepard's loyalties, not actual caution, and even older and more experienced people who knew Shepard are inclined to trust her. In fact, every single one of Shepard's old associates falls into this, aside from them, regardless of intelligence/trust levels. I find it very difficult to believe that the VS' fears have much grounding in reality.

the fears were definitely well placed on Horizon, I will acknowledge that much. Now during ME3, not so much. 

[Xilizhra]

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, I have nothing against people disagreeing with me (depending on what it is, of course; people disagreeing with me on whether or not human supremacy is good might be a dealbreaker), but from what I can tell, the VS' unfounded suspicion of Shepard is based primarily on cognitive dissonance and a too-rigid perception of Shepard's loyalties, not actual caution, and even older and more experienced people who knew Shepard are inclined to trust her. In fact, every single one of Shepard's old associates falls into this, aside from them, regardless of intelligence/trust levels. I find it very difficult to believe that the VS' fears have much grounding in reality.

the fears were definitely well placed on Horizon, I will acknowledge that much. Now during ME3, not so much. 

Horizon... honestly, I don't think they thought things through well at all, or handled the situation competently. There are reasons why they wouldn't, of course, but I don't think that they did.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Well because her like Kaidan isn't a Shepard sycophant. Anyone who disagrees with Shep is automatically a bad person.

[Xilizhra]

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Well because her like Kaidan isn't a Shepard sycophant. Anyone who disagrees with Shep is automatically a bad person.

Ah, so Liara considering that she had more important things to do than join me on the Normandy clearly makes her a bad person.

I don't even think the VS is a bad person, I just think they did something dumb.

[eyezonlyii]

Xilizhra wrote...

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Well because her like Kaidan isn't a Shepard sycophant. Anyone who disagrees with Shep is automatically a bad person.

Ah, so Liara considering that she had more important things to do than join me on the Normandy clearly makes her a bad person.

I don't even think the VS is a bad person, I just think they did something dumb.

her more important thing was a petty quest for revenge though...

[iOnlySignIn]

I don't think OP expressed any opinion other than the liking of women.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:34 .

[Hazegurl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, I have nothing against people disagreeing with me (depending on what it is, of course; people disagreeing with me on whether or not human supremacy is good might be a dealbreaker), but from what I can tell, the VS' unfounded suspicion of Shepard is based primarily on cognitive dissonance and a too-rigid perception of Shepard's loyalties, not actual caution, and even older and more experienced people who knew Shepard are inclined to trust her. In fact, every single one[/i] of Shepard's old associates falls into this, aside from them, regardless of intelligence/trust levels. I find it very difficult to believe that the VS' fears have much grounding in reality.

The people who trust Shepard:
Joker- joined Cerberus cause the Alliance wouldn't let him fly. Not much to go on as far as trusting Shepard.
Tali- in love with Shepard. Was young when first recruited. Not much to go on either.
Garrus- Renegade who follows Shepard's every word and deed.
Dr. Chakwas- Another person discontent with the alliance and joined Cerberus for Shepard.
Liara: In love with Shepard, turned his body over to them

Hackett...I don't know about trusting him too much either. He has his own renegade shadiness about him and Shepard joining Cerberus worked out for him.

That leaves only one true trustworthy source, Anderson, and even then it's not like the VS can't disagree with him.

I don't think it has much to do with perceptions vs reality. Shepard is/was working for Cerberus, that is reality. Working for Cerberus goes against everything the VS stands for, that is also reality.
 
The only perception based judgment I can think of is the notion that working for Cerberus is a betrayal to the Alliance. Even then, this is just an opinion I believe the VS is right to have if they wish to have it. It's not like it would be so far off.

The VS has decided that because of all this Shepard's loyalty to the Alliance should come under question. As it should considering Cerberus ties to the Alliance anyway. I just don't see how their feelings are just so unfounded given the evidence. Heck, with a renegade play through Shepard is happy to join Cerberus which makes it worse.  It's like meeting up with your friend after a while only to find out they joined the KKK and all they want to do is tell you how awesome they are now. lol!

Modifié par Hazegurl, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:22 .

[Br3admax]

StreetMagic wrote...

eyezonlyii wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Well because her like Kaidan isn't a Shepard sycophant. Anyone who disagrees with Shep is automatically a bad person.

Ah, so Liara considering that she had more important things to do than join me on the Normandy clearly makes her a bad person.

I don't even think the VS is a bad person, I just think they did something dumb.

her more important thing was a petty quest for revenge though...

I wouldn't call it petty per se. She also wanted to rescue Feron. Although they never get into who Feron really is to her (at least not in the games). I wish they had. Or even made him her love interest, if Shep wasn't. That's still revenge, but it's not petty.

She didn't even know that Feron was still alive. 

[Hazegurl]

Xilizhra wrote...

If you talk crap to Miranda and try to tell her who's boss she'll pretty much let you know that it's TIM and not you.

Temporarily.

That's more than what any of the aliens have done to Shepard.

[Xilizhra]

I don't think it has much to do with perceptions vs reality. Shepard is working for Cerberus, that is reality. Working for Cerberus goes against everything the VS stands for, that is also reality.

That's not true, unless they're standing for Collectors abducting everyone while the Alliance's hands are politically tied. Cerberus' goals are against what they stand for (Kaidan, anyway; Ashley always seemed to be protesting too much), but Shepard working for them is not.

The VS has decided that because of all this Shepard's loyalty to the Alliance should come under question. As it should considering Cerberus ties to the Alliance anyway. I just don't see how their feelings are just so unfounded given the evidence. Heck, with a renegade play through Shepard is happy to join Cerberus which makes it worse. It's like meeting up with your friend after a while only to find out they joined the KKK and all they want to do is tell you how awesome they are now. lol!

If one of my friends did do something that odd, I'd certainly want to know more about why they thought so, what the circumstances are, how things might have changed, etc. Not just blow them off.

That's more than what any of the aliens have done to Shepard.

Wrex stuck a gun in Shepard's face. Liara blew Shepard off for a while.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Han Shot First wrote...

Cooperation could have worked.

I still think Bioware had the right idea in making TIM a pawn of the Reapers however. Where I think they goofed is having that practically be revealed at Mars, barely 20 minutes into the game. It would have worked a lot better had Cerberus returned as what seemed like allies in the beginning, only to have them betray Shepard at Thessia. The indoctrination angle should have been a twist, rather than something revealed to the player at the start.

Bluntly that's a really really sh*tty idea, because it still ends with Cerberus renegades getting screwed and the naive paragons getting the "see we tuld u guys soo durrrr", why can't be something like this:

If you destroyed the base you get schematics for the crucible not the DEM where the blueberry disccovers it through pure miracle and contrivance.

If you kept the base you get the crucible schematics and a better understanding of indoctrination where henry lawson at sanctuary is able to counter the frequency and detect it and "cure" TIM of his indoctrination when it becomes evident he's turning.

everyone wins that way because the game would go as status quo for paragons and a bit differently for Cerberus renegades (i mean parts of the story may have to be altered but still...its a work in progress)

[Han Shot First]

Taking down the Shadow Broker wasn't just about revenge, or even a rescue of Feron, although both were factors.The Shadow Broker had also been an ally of the Collectors, and by extension, the Reapers.

There were pragmatic reasons for bringing him down as well as the personal ones. With the exception of the stakes involved, it isn't much different from Shepard's pursuit of Saren.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:29 .

[Steelcan]

Han Shot First wrote...

Taking down the Shadow Broker wasn't just about revenge, or even a rescue of Feron, although both were factors.The Shadow Broker had also been an ally of the Collectors, and by extension, the Reapers.

There were pragmatic reasons for bringing him down as well as the personal ones.

Which makes her one man assault on the entire organization even more unbelievable

[Han Shot First]

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Taking down the Shadow Broker wasn't just about revenge, or even a rescue of Feron, although both were factors.The Shadow Broker had also been an ally of the Collectors, and by extension, the Reapers.

There were pragmatic reasons for bringing him down as well as the personal ones.

Which makes her one man assault on the entire organization even more unbelievable

No more unbelievable than Shepard's three-man assault on Ilos and the Citadel in ME1.

At any rate that is shaped more by gameplay than anything else. If a player doesn't download LotSB, Liara instead takes down the Shadow Broker with an army of mercs.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:31 .

[Steelcan]

Han Shot First wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Taking down the Shadow Broker wasn't just about revenge, or even a rescue of Feron, although both were factors.The Shadow Broker had also been an ally of the Collectors, and by extension, the Reapers.

There were pragmatic reasons for bringing him down as well as the personal ones.

Which makes her one man assault on the entire organization even more unbelievable

No more unbelievable than Shepard's three-man assault on Ilos and the Citadel in ME1.

Shepard at least had a tank and squadmates to back him up, in addition to being the most able soldier in the galaxy.

[Xilizhra]

Shepard at least had a tank and squadmates to back him up, in addition to being the most able soldier in the galaxy.

Liara's one of its more powerful biotics.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

Well because her like Kaidan isn't a Shepard sycophant. Anyone who disagrees with Shep is automatically a bad person.

Ah, so Liara considering that she had more important things to do than join me on the Normandy clearly makes her a bad person.

I don't even think the VS is a bad person, I just think they did something dumb.

I don't even get what your saying im apathetic to ashley the only thing that irks me about her is how she earned her place on the normandy even though she's never seen combat till eden prime. It's like putting an army infantry man into the 75th Ranger Regiment after he held his own in one battle.

As for Liara she had an asinine revenge quest, plus my Shepard never wanted her on the normandy in the first place Liara's not a bad xeno myself (Shepard) just happens to hate her.

bolded: partially agreed

[Han Shot First]

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Taking down the Shadow Broker wasn't just about revenge, or even a rescue of Feron, although both were factors.The Shadow Broker had also been an ally of the Collectors, and by extension, the Reapers.

There were pragmatic reasons for bringing him down as well as the personal ones.

Which makes her one man assault on the entire organization even more unbelievable

No more unbelievable than Shepard's three-man assault on Ilos and the Citadel in ME1.

Shepard at least had a tank and squadmates to back him up, in addition to being the most able soldier in the galaxy.

Liara doesn't take down the Shadow Broker alone.

If you download LotSB it is with Shepard and one of the squadmates, and no different than Ilos or the Citadel. If you skip the DLC, she sends a unit of mercenaries to take him down.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:33 .

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Taking down the Shadow Broker wasn't just about revenge, or even a rescue of Feron, although both were factors.The Shadow Broker had also been an ally of the Collectors, and by extension, the Reapers.

There were pragmatic reasons for bringing him down as well as the personal ones.

Which makes her one man assault on the entire organization even more unbelievable

No more unbelievable than Shepard's three-man assault on Ilos and the Citadel in ME1.

Shepard at least had a tank and squadmates to back him up, in addition to being the most able soldier in the galaxy.

But Liara is blue, friend. 

[Steelcan]

Han Shot First wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Taking down the Shadow Broker wasn't just about revenge, or even a rescue of Feron, although both were factors.The Shadow Broker had also been an ally of the Collectors, and by extension, the Reapers.

There were pragmatic reasons for bringing him down as well as the personal ones.

Which makes her one man assault on the entire organization even more unbelievable

No more unbelievable than Shepard's three-man assault on Ilos and the Citadel in ME1.

Shepard at least had a tank and squadmates to back him up, in addition to being the most able soldier in the galaxy.

Liara doesn't take down the Shadow Broker alone.

If you download LotSB it is with Shepard and one of the squadmates. If you skip the DLC, she sends a unit of mercenaries to take him down.

Before that

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard at least had a tank and squadmates to back him up, in addition to being the most able soldier in the galaxy.

Liara's one of its more powerful biotics.

This does not make up for her lack of combat expertise.