290 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...
I think just when people started to getting used to and loving that formula, they pulled that ground out from underneath.. and went back to plot. Except that middle game coaxed you into growing some attachement to the characters. Attachement that might have been less if it was also a plot driven game.

The real issue is ME2 introducing too many new characters that were irrelevant, if it even is an issue. It isn't for me because I'm perfectly fine with the level of involvement ME2 squadmates had in ME3, Miranda aside.

[CronoDragoon]

crimzontearz wrote...
how things play out is very relevant.

If you're the type to comb over fight choreography and then post about in on the BSN, sure. Myself I don't pretend to have a PHD in biotic combat.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Personally, I'd rather have sidelined the ME1 characters to my ME2 team. To my Shepard, Kaidan was that former squadmate who died on Virmire. He doesn't really remember or care about him much. Liara was the scientist the ship had, nothing more. Tali was the young engineer who was Quarian, Garrus was that cop, and Wrex was the mercenary. Ashley was the only one who was once more than that, and now Shepard holds nothing but contempt and disgust for her.

[crimzontearz]

CronoDragoon wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
how things play out is very relevant.

If you're the type to comb over fight choreography and then post about in on the BSN, sure. Myself I don't pretend to have a PHD in biotic combat.

Does not even have to do with Biotics

My Shepard is a Vanguard, sure, but even disregarding the fact he could have prevented Kai Leng to even approach the councilor he ends up within 5 meters from Leng carrying either (because these are my weapons of choice) A Crusader or a Sabre. Both are high precision armor piercing weapons. At that distance even I, a good but certainly not exceptional shooter WITHOUT targeting VIs, stabilizers and cybernetics could easily make the shot. That is ignoring the presence of Garrus with a javelin, Liara with a fully upgraded stasis oh and Thane choosing to DERP and not shoot Kai in the head while he had no idea he was coming.

[grey_wind]

Thane was butchered horribly, and his death is the least of the problems. All his development and depth from ME2 is dropped in favour of reducing him into a caricature of himself and his terminal illness (a disease whose effects aren't even consistent between games). And for some reason the person who wrote him in 3 seems to insist that Thane was on some redemption arc for his guilt (even in the Citadel DLC), a guilt the character never possessed or even thought about atoning for. The most Thane ever sought redemption for was abandoning his family.

Though this is true for nearly all the ME2 exclusive squaddies. It's far more merciful to let them all die in the Suicide Mission than have them suffer through terrible writing in the sequel.

[crimzontearz]

Oh yeah...loved that

We went from a cystic fibrosis kind of disease from a (apparently) pre existing congenital condition that screws with their hemoglobin (I got to ask WTF does water have to do with it at this point because even if it was a competitive inhibitor for oxygen it is nothing that a transfusion does not solve)

So my guess is they just wanted his sickness to be terminal regardless of its implausibility so they retconned




Classy

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Try playing femShep and romancing Jacob and having that on your first play through of the game. Some Prize.

[Mr.House]

Mordin was awesome in ME2. Nor was he a cameo/sidelined/small role.

[crimzontearz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Try playing femShep and romancing Jacob and having that on your first play through of the game. Some Prize.

sorry Julia, you know you have my sympathy. Liaramancers felt the same way before LOTSB

[shockky]

ME3 wasn't the only time when several ME2 characters received poor treatment. It happened in ME2 as well.

[grey_wind]

Mr.House wrote...

Mordin was awesome in ME2. Nor was he a cameo/sidelined/small role.

I'm personally not a fan of Mordin's whole "Must cure the Genophage because I made a mistake!" stance in ME3. Though this is more because ME3 ignores the fact that the Genophage is population control and treats it more like a genocidal sterility plague (even Wrex as a character suffers for it). All of Mordin's arguments for why the Genophage was necessary (all of them rooted in pragmatism) are thrown out a window in favour of his emotional "doing the right thing" and giving the Krogan a "second chance".

Though considering I hate Padok Wiks, I might just have to keep Mordin alive so I can shoot him in the back when I replay.

Modifié par grey_wind, 24 octobre 2013 - 06:54 .

[Caihn]

Yeah the sidelined ME2 characters is the main reason why I don't like ME3. Not the ending.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Thane got shafted so bad in ME3 just like most ME2 characters. This is coming from someone who romanced him across many playthroughs. The extra content from Citadel was pretty cool, but it doesn't really do anything to fix the issue.

I've mentioned this before, but I blame this on the fact that Thane's original writer, Chris L'Etoile, left before ME3 went into production. It shows.

[txgoldrush]

Yannkee wrote...

Yeah the sidelined ME2 characters is the main reason why I don't like ME3. Not the ending.

Maybe simply put, they are not important to the plot outside Mordin, Miranda, and Legion.

Its treated better than some Baldur's Gate characters.

[Display Name Owner]

I wonder if part of the problem is that Thane was designed specifically to be a romance for the ladies who was also an alien. I mean, I'm not disagreeing, he could most definitely have been treated better in ME3, but... Well, even in ME2 his presence was kind of meaningless. Why would an assassin be needed in a mission that's not an assassination? And what good would he be against the Reapers? I'm not objecting to Thane's existence btw, just saying.

But yeah, whilst ME3 was not all about romances, Thane was pretty much only there for romancing, whether you liked him just as a squaddie or not. Which I suppose makes it even stranger that his whole romance thing is massively lacking from what I hear.

But you know something, I actually like that he does die and we weren't given a cheap magical cure. I like that there's one romance that can end tragically, although truth be told it should probably be one of ManShep's romances, because even as a guy who doesn't much care about the romances I can sell how things are skewed far in the male's favour LI-wise.

[Seboist]

txgoldrush wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Yeah the sidelined ME2 characters is the main reason why I don't like ME3. Not the ending.

Maybe simply put, they are not important to the plot outside Mordin, Miranda, and Legion.

Its treated better than some Baldur's Gate characters.

Lawson and Mordin aren't important in 3 at all. The same roles are fulfilled easily by Wiks and Oriana.

Modifié par Seboist, 24 octobre 2013 - 07:55 .

[Mr.House]

Yannkee wrote...

Yeah the sidelined ME2 characters is the main reason why I don't like ME3. Not the ending.

Awww poor baby. You should have knowen this would be the case when everyone was killable and fater how Bioware treated the ME characters in ME2.

[Mr.House]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Yeah the sidelined ME2 characters is the main reason why I don't like ME3. Not the ending.

Awww poor baby. You should have knowen this would be the case when everyone was killable and fater how Bioware treated the ME characters in ME2.

Are people not even allowed to have an isolated opinion without getting attacked? He didn't do anything to you.

Because people should have knowen this was going to happen. It was very clear Bioware was going to sideline the ME2 characters. Past experinece and how Bioware acted all pointed towards. People like Yannkee however refused toaccept it and kept going Bioware would not do that and clung onto hope before ME3 was even announced, let alone released. People hyped themselves up instead of looking at the picture.

[crimzontearz]

There is no need for the attack


That said, people should have seen it coming as other members of the community called this waaaaaaay back right after ME2 was released.

[Caihn]

Mr.House wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Yeah the sidelined ME2 characters is the main reason why I don't like ME3. Not the ending.

Awww poor baby. You should have knowen this would be the case when everyone was killable and fater how Bioware treated the ME characters in ME2.

Awww and what about Tali and Garrus special treatment ?
Bioware could have done a better work with all the ME2 characters, even with the problem of the alive/death variable. It was just a matter of time and ressources (and probably some willingness).

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 octobre 2013 - 08:53 .

[KR96]

Yannkee wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Yeah the sidelined ME2 characters is the main reason why I don't like ME3. Not the ending.

Awww poor baby. You should have knowen this would be the case when everyone was killable and fater how Bioware treated the ME characters in ME2.

Awww and what about Tali and Garrus special treatment ?
Bioware could have done a better work with all the ME2 characters, even with the problem of the alive/death variable. It was just a matter of time and ressources (and probably some willingness).

Tali and Garrus were favourites among the writers. During PAX 2013 Conbrow said that Tali wasn't even meant to be a permanent squadmate, but Weekes persisted that he could manage to write her as a permanent member of Shepard's squad. Hence the reason she became one.