290 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

EDI actually has a role to play in the themes of the story. So does Javik, Garrus, Tali, and James to a degree.

Bolt Van der Huge does not have any role that doesn't consist of boring soldiery stuff that the VS does better anyway.

What role does Liara have that is inextricably tied to the important themes of the game?

Samantha's presence butchered a fair bit of it, but she has some very nice parts talking about the cycle as a whole. Sadly, her Prothean expertise was undermined by From Ashes, yet another reason to dislike Javik.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:31 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 It's a case of square pegs and round holes, IMO, like the story of ME2 itself as it relates to the overarching plot. ME3's plot was pre-determined: the Reapers were to invade the galaxy in force. At this point, if things don't fit, they don't fit. You can't make them fit; it's too late for that now. The time to figure that out has long since passed. 2007, to be accurate.

Anyway, this is Thane's character in a nutshell:

-- Newly-introduced specie, one that is on the brink of extinction and thus not really part of the galactic community.
-- Character himself is terminally-ill.
-- Acquired half-way through game.
-- Useless within game to its story (plays no meaningful part in Suicide Mission).
-- Not associated with anyone or anything important (if not for his son, would not be associated with anything at all).


... good luck giving that character any worthwhile place in the story.

Miranda getting shafted is one thing because she could have been used in a meaningful way, given the Cerberus arc.

Thane... not so much.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

What role does Liara have that is inextricably tied to the important themes of the game?

Samantha's presence butchered a fair bit of it, but she has some very nice parts talking about the cycle as a whole. Sadly, her Prothean expertise was undermined by From Ashes, yet another reason to dislike Javik.

Not plot relevance, thematic relevance.

What important conflicts in the story does she represent?

(also you dislike a character because because they proved your waifu is a moron, how shallow, but coming from you not unexpected)

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Steelcan wrote...


Except for where he isn't.

Dragon Age Origins is a fine example of a game where you can get along poorly, even kick out members of your squad, if they get kicked out ala Sten, their role is over, done, you miss out on their content.

Morrigan on the other hand still fulfills her function in the story, even if you kick her out of the team.

I figured by "kill or dismiss" he meant like ME2's suicide mission, where the variables are a pain in the arse to manage, going into the next game. Sadly, even DAO is guilty of this, like with supposedly dead characters showing up again.

[Steelcan]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...


Except for where he isn't.

Dragon Age Origins is a fine example of a game where you can get along poorly, even kick out members of your squad, if they get kicked out ala Sten, their role is over, done, you miss out on their content.

Morrigan on the other hand still fulfills her function in the story, even if you kick her out of the team.

I figured by "kill or dismiss" he meant like ME2's suicide mission, where the variables are a pain in the arse to manage, going into the next game. Sadly, even DAO is guilty of this, like with supposedly dead characters showing up again.

And honestly I'd prefer they resurrect characters to tell a more coherent story than make everyone killable for ta dramaz, but then screw over people who kept them alive.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

What role does Liara have that is inextricably tied to the important themes of the game?

Samantha's presence butchered a fair bit of it, but she has some very nice parts talking about the cycle as a whole. Sadly, her Prothean expertise was undermined by From Ashes, yet another reason to dislike Javik.

Not plot relevance, thematic relevance.

What important conflicts in the story does she represent?

(also you dislike a character because because they proved your waifu is a moron, how shallow, but coming from you not unexpected)

Javik proved nothing, and I dislike him for being a colossal dickasaurus who has no comprehension of how diplomacy works, not because of Liara specifically.

As for thematic ones, she, like Shepard, seems to be tied to the unity of the galaxy in general against the Reapers.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:42 .

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

In ME1, I think Liara shared some thematic qualities with Wynne from Dragon Age.. (except Wynne's dialogue on this subject was more extensive). She put Shepard and being the "first human Spectre" thing on a pedestal and urged him/her to care about representing humanity. Basic idealist notions about how you should be a good example to the children out there. Wynne does the same thing. Except didn't offer sex.

But in ME3 I see no good reason either thematic or narrative to keep her around.

[dreamgazer]

... Bolt van der Huge? Really?

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

What role does Liara have that is inextricably tied to the important themes of the game?

Samantha's presence butchered a fair bit of it, but she has some very nice parts talking about the cycle as a whole. Sadly, her Prothean expertise was undermined by From Ashes, yet another reason to dislike Javik.

Not plot relevance, thematic relevance.

What important conflicts in the story does she represent?

(also you dislike a character because because they proved your waifu is a moron, how shallow, but coming from you not unexpected)

Javik proved nothing, and I dislike him for being a colossal dickasaurus who has no comprehension of how diplomacy works, not because of Liara specifically.

He proved the asari are nothing but hypocrites riding off the success of another species.  he also showed her how ****** poor her understanding of protheans was.

if an archaeologist is trying to say that Ancient Romans were benevolent and caring rulers they need a field change.

[Xilizhra]

dreamgazer wrote...

... Bolt van der Huge? Really?

Names to make him a bit more fun.

He proved the asari are nothing but hypocrites riding off the success of
another species.  he also showed her how ****** poor her understanding of
protheans was.

Protheans made rather selective records that'd have them look good from a distance, technology does not create culture and the asari cultural achievements are quite good by themselves, everyone got a technological boost to the stars, how much the Protheans could even have given then asari is seriously in doubt, and you're derailing the thread like some sort of anti-boss, so I won't continue after this.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 octobre 2013 - 03:44 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

As for thematic ones, she, like Shepard, seems to be tied to the unity of the galaxy in general against the Reapers.

How?

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

In ME1, I think Liara shared some thematic qualities with Wynne from Dragon Age.. (except Wynne's dialogue on this subject was more extensive). She put Shepard and being the "first human Spectre" thing on a pedestal and urged him/her to care about representing humanity. Basic idealist notions about how you should be a good example to the children out there. Wynne does the same thing. Except didn't offer sex.

But in ME3 I see no good reason either thematic or narrative to keep her around.

Me either. She lost her ME1 theme in LotSB already. And she lost her Prothean expertise in light of both Shepard and Javik. She's just a fan favorite. And I guess, one of Mac's vehicles for Shepard's newfound emotions/humanity/PTSD. She's there to be a sounding board for those themes.

If by sounding board you mean "offers no real additional input on anything and is redundant to Shepard's own shoehorned emotions"

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

As for thematic ones, she, like Shepard, seems to be tied to the unity of the galaxy in general against the Reapers.

How?

Obviously the time capsules she made are super duper important, if Shepard becomes an even bigger moron. And if definantly united the galaxy without any proof as such. 

[dreamgazer]

LOL @ the perpetual Liara hate.

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ the perpetual Liara hate.

Gotta keep up appearances

[David7204]

Hey, this goes right back to the whining I was just talking about a page ago! Am I a psychic or what?

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

Hey, this goes right back to the whining I was just talking about a page ago! Am I a psychic or what?

Psychotic, David. You meant psychotic. 

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

Hey, this goes right back to the whining I was just talking about a page ago! Am I a psychic or what?

It certainly is interesting that no one can ever stop talking about Liara.

[Steelcan]

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Hey, this goes right back to the whining I was just talking about a page ago! Am I a psychic or what?

Psychotic, David. You meant psychotic. 

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Hey, this goes right back to the whining I was just talking about a page ago! Am I a psychic or what?

It certainly is interesting that no one can ever stop talking about Liara.

I'm actually tsundere for Liara

#confessions

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Hey, this goes right back to the whining I was just talking about a page ago! Am I a psychic or what?

It certainly is interesting that no one can ever stop talking about Liara.

I'm actually tsundere for Liara

#confessions

Honest confession, I romanced Liara once.