290 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ the perpetual Liara hate.

I don't hate her. I think I make an effort in finding the good parts. The parts I do hate I can't even explain. It's not about her per se (she's just a fictional character), but me, and about real people who probe into my emotional life like that. Rubs me the wrong way. I find it strange that the writers take it all lightly.

This. 

[Steelcan]

Br3ad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Hey, this goes right back to the whining I was just talking about a page ago! Am I a psychic or what?

It certainly is interesting that no one can ever stop talking about Liara.

I'm actually tsundere for Liara

#confessions

Honest confession, I romanced Liara once.

I got ninjamanced once by her, it happened to be my canon playthrough...

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...
I find it strange that the writers take it all lightly.

Taking it lightly is not the right phrase there. In any case, I find it strange that you find it strange. So it goes.

[CronoDragoon]

I think you mean they treat it like it's the normal thing to do, which I think it is. Not that I'm belittling those who disagree, but friends asking about friends emotional states is common in my experience, and I'm willing to bet many others.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

BNN999 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Which is why I wish I had more freedom to kill Liara and ME3 EDI. I don't think they should have much of an impact on the story.

Some squaddies need to alive no matter so that you can still play the game.  Wouldn't be very fun just going through the game with Party Vega as your only ally.

Sure it would. We'd get it done. Plus, we'd still have EDI. ME3 EDI. And Javik.

[Br3admax]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

BNN999 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Which is why I wish I had more freedom to kill Liara and ME3 EDI. I don't think they should have much of an impact on the story.

Some squaddies need to alive no matter so that you can still play the game.  Wouldn't be very fun just going through the game with Party Vega as your only ally.

Sure it would. We'd get it done. Plus, we'd still have EDI. ME3 EDI. And Javik.

Mainly it is so you can set up any party with any type of classes: biotic, tech, and soldier. 

[3DandBeyond]

SNascimento wrote...

 We all know by now that ME2's squadmates received the short(est) ending of the stick in Mass Effect 3. That's nothing knew. So it scares me that I could still be surprised of how much... disrepect? Lack of consideration? Laziness? I don't know  the word to use to describe what the responsibles for the game showed in that aspect of the trilogy, but it was, and still is, sad.

Anyway, what happened is that for the first time I romanced Thane. I didn't plan to, but playing ME2 it seens very natural that that particular femshep would be interested in getting closer to the dying drell. And everything went well.

And then ME3 came. I knew it was going to be bad, but my god I was not prepared. It's like the game almsot didn't acknowledge he was the character my femshep romanced, and I don't know if it was a bug or not, but I didn't even got the achievement for rekindling a romance! Just shameful!

And people think the ending was the main problem with ME3? Oh no, if you cared for the wrong people, this is the main problem right here. And just to be clear, by this, I mean the lack of work put into ME2 characters, it has nothing to do with romance. They were totally sidelined in ME3, having small cameos that hurted them as characters and your overall enjoyment of the game. You can't make a game like ME2 that the main purpose is to make you care about characters and events and in the next game say: "You liked them? To bad!"

I absolutely agree.  Shepard had created a great crew, a sort of family of people that in ME2 s/he calls the best.  BW decided that the best was not good enough for ME3 and didn't create a plausible story as to why they'd all continue on the Normandy, but they could have.  Some will say it's because the Normandy was a Cerberus ship at the time and Cerberus was fine with non-military crew members but once it was an Alliance ship it had to be Alliance/military crew members or some such.  Uh no-doesn't explain Tali or Garrus and still and all Bioware could have written in reasons or a way for the ME2 crew to be on the Normandy.  The whole beginning of the game speaks of laziness and the way the ME2 characters were treated for the most part was unforgivable.

But, they've done that before.  Consider that Liara was one of the supposedly consistent romance options throughout the 3 games.  Except she wasn't.  If you didn't get Lair of the Shadow Broker, good luck.  Of course, most people did get that but romancing Liara in ME2 doesn't give you an achievement.  And only PS3 players got that DLC for free as far as I know, and it was somewhat less important for PS3 players to have a continued relationship with her.  I can only assume that there might well have been some plan with DLC for the ME2 crew members - like in ME2 where LotSB was originally to be a bigger part of the main game and then was ripped out and made into DLC.  They might well have thought of doing some bigger DLC side missions like Omega with those characters (which might have been ok but not what I wanted). 

I think Thane romancers got perhaps the worst in all of this.  I don't know how it all goes, but from what I think I understand they get the same basic story in ME3 that the rest of us get.  But then the head marketing guy for Bioware at the time said before ME3 was released that people wouldn't care that much about who they romanced because IT"S WAR!.  Honestly, it's the character relationships (not just romance) that truly made these games unique and come alive.  Vega and Steve are not great substitutes for the ME2 group, and the phone a friend goodbyes at the FOB in London, though well done, are almost laughable and sadly unfulfilling at the same time.  Only thing going for the Thane thing is that Shepard got to say goodbye in person.  Their story (friends or lovers) deserved better.

[crimzontearz]

Yeeep

Hurr Durr we want to appeal to the newcomers, this is the best entry point, screw the core audience

It was almost worse than the "awesome button" and "think like a general, fight like a Spartan"

[3DandBeyond]

Br3ad wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ the perpetual Liara hate.

I don't hate her. I think I make an effort in finding the good parts. The parts I do hate I can't even explain. It's not about her per se (she's just a fictional character), but me, and about real people who probe into my emotional life like that. Rubs me the wrong way. I find it strange that the writers take it all lightly.

This. 

Well the whole Liara thing, retrospectively, is rather odd all the way.  Don't get me wrong, she ends up being the only one my Shepard has romanced.  I got the PS3 version of ME2 first and the comic had the option of caring about her but I wasn't really paying that much attention, saw a blue alien and picked that.  I ended up liking how Lair of the Shadow Broker turned out and that was that.

Then I got an xbox and played ME1 and actually accidentally ended up with her as the LI.  I wouldn't have picked Kaidan because he was so pushy and was telling me to act professionally when I hadn't done anything for him to say that.  His dialogue was a little odd and put me off.  I talked to Liara and chose the dialogue, none of it suggestive in any way, and Shepard ended up in bed with her.  It happens.

However, I can see where her behavior if you don't romance her is stalkerish.  In fact, some of her behavior if you do romance her is odd as well-it's like she can't decide if she and Shepard are in a relationship or just friends, or exactly where in the relationship they are.  One minute they're talking about spending the rest of their lives together and the next she's saying they're good friends.  But for someone not in a romance, it is like she's always around and is too familiar.  I wonder if you don't romance her do you still get the conversation with her dad?

[Xilizhra]

In fact, some of her behavior if you do romance her is odd as well-it's like she can't decide if she and Shepard are in a relationship or just friends, or exactly where in the relationship they are. One minute they're talking about spending the rest of their lives together and the next she's saying they're good friends.

They just sort of screwed up with dialogue flags in ME3. Thankfully, this is all finished off by the Citadel conversation.

[3DandBeyond]

crimzontearz wrote...

Yeeep

Hurr Durr we want to appeal to the newcomers, this is the best entry point, screw the core audience

It was almost worse than the "awesome button" and "think like a general, fight like a Spartan"

Ha ha yeah-it's why so many parts seem generic and don't fit well with the "customized" imported save pieces.  What always gets me is in ME3, Shepard going to Mars to see about the crucible plans, plans for what is assumed to be a weapon that will destroy the reapers.  And Liara sees Shepard and asks, "why are you here?"  Duh, duh, slap you up side the head stupid-plans for a weapon that will destroy the reapers-does that ring a bell?  Please, all it took would be a slight change in that dialogue to say, "you've come about the blueprints in the archive, haven't you?"  Or "Hackett sent you?  Good."  Or some such thing.  It's a minor bit of dialogue but it's one of many stupid things said in the game.

[CronoDragoon]

3DandBeyond wrote...
 I wonder if you don't romance her do you still get the conversation with her dad?

You do, but the nature of the conversation is a bit different.

In any case, I would not have wanted all the ME2 squadmates in my ME3 crew. One mission is enough to cover the end of their character arcs. Some were not done so well, like Miranda, others like Thane, Grunt, or Samara (characters who literally do not matter to the overall plot) were handled quite well. Even Thane got an important moment in the story saving the salarian.

I get that people wanted to see more of their favorite characters, but all this about what they "deserve" is too much. People need to be more open-minded about how ME3 should have been constructed, instead of this "the way I like it or it sucks" mindset.

[3DandBeyond]

StreetMagic wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

I wonder if you don't romance her do you still get the conversation with her dad?

Aethyta? Yeah. I don't know if exact lines are different, but I can still encourage her to speak (which I do.. Aethyta is my favorite Asari besides Aria heh).

Yeah because if you romance Liara Aethyta in ME3 talks to her about ripping Shepard's clothes off and Aethyta also has words with Shepard where Shepard gets rather possessive of Liara-Aethyta all but says others were going to kill Liara or some such.  One of the funniest exchanges in the games was that between Liara and Aethyta.

[crimzontearz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Yeeep

Hurr Durr we want to appeal to the newcomers, this is the best entry point, screw the core audience

It was almost worse than the "awesome button" and "think like a general, fight like a Spartan"

Ha ha yeah-it's why so many parts seem generic and don't fit well with the "customized" imported save pieces.  What always gets me is in ME3, Shepard going to Mars to see about the crucible plans, plans for what is assumed to be a weapon that will destroy the reapers.  And Liara sees Shepard and asks, "why are you here?"  Duh, duh, slap you up side the head stupid-plans for a weapon that will destroy the reapers-does that ring a bell?  Please, all it took would be a slight change in that dialogue to say, "you've come about the blueprints in the archive, haven't you?"  Or "Hackett sent you?  Good."  Or some such thing.  It's a minor bit of dialogue but it's one of many stupid things said in the game.

that's the new Bioware

More attention to the COD crowd (which even according to their own devs attracts mostly casuals and even non gamers) and less to the core audience.


 
So damn sad

[Xilizhra]

StreetMagic wrote...

I think the main thing I miss about Jack is she was a good mirror to how I already saw Shepard. A bit unhinged, destructive, etc.. And the story was more lighthearted with her or Grunt around. Or even little touches, like Zaeed laughing when he threw his grenades. "Hell yeah!" Everything about ME3 is brought to more serious, war drama levels. And the people you talk to most want to keep reinforcing that. Not my thing. Omega DLC with Aria was quite welcome, because it was another taste of this kind of atmosphere again.

Out of curiosity, what else would you want out of a war this major?

[crimzontearz]

StreetMagic wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I think the main thing I miss about Jack is she was a good mirror to how I already saw Shepard. A bit unhinged, destructive, etc.. And the story was more lighthearted with her or Grunt around. Or even little touches, like Zaeed laughing when he threw his grenades. "Hell yeah!" Everything about ME3 is brought to more serious, war drama levels. And the people you talk to most want to keep reinforcing that. Not my thing. Omega DLC with Aria was quite welcome, because it was another taste of this kind of atmosphere again.

Out of curiosity, what else would you want out of a war this major?

I don't want anything except fun. I want outlandish video game experiences/ and larger than life game characters. Not life lessons and more "humane" takes on the subject. I have enough of humanity. I like escapism. I'm proud to be shallow when it comes to entertaiment like this. I make no apologies.

good man


 
Like I always say, if I wanted a lesson in the bleakness and unfairness of life I would put the news on.

[CronoDragoon]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't want anything except fun. I want outlandish video game experiences/ and larger than life game characters. Not life lessons and more "humane" takes on the subject. I have enough of humanity. I like escapism. I'm proud to be shallow when it comes to entertaiment like this. I make no apologies.

But you'd agree that this tone was unavoidable, right?

[3DandBeyond]

CronoDragoon wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
 I wonder if you don't romance her do you still get the conversation with her dad?

You do, but the nature of the conversation is a bit different.

In any case, I would not have wanted all the ME2 squadmates in my ME3 crew. One mission is enough to cover the end of their character arcs. Some were not done so well, like Miranda, others like Thane, Grunt, or Samara (characters who literally do not matter to the overall plot) were handled quite well. Even Thane got an important moment in the story saving the salarian.

I get that people wanted to see more of their favorite characters, but all this about what they "deserve" is too much. People need to be more open-minded about how ME3 should have been constructed, instead of this "the way I like it or it sucks" mindset.

But that's the big problem when you set up a game in this way.  It's the same thing people felt if they romanced Kaidan or Ashley in ME1-how they were treated in ME2.  And these are games that were all about those kinds of choices.  See you don't care that much about them specifically Miranda because you didn't like her, so you were kind of ok with all that.  But it's all about POV.  I never saw Miranda as my favorite either but after really considering her situation, I ended up liking her as much as I did Jack (who I liked a lot) for similar reasons.  They had similar pasts that played out in different ways.  I ended up really liking all of them for the reasons I've given-they touched that part of me that sees a stray puppy and wants to help it.

As far as Thane specifically-sure he has stuff to do, but all that action stuff, saving the Salarian isn't what mostly mattered to someone that romanced him.  They cared about some real time for Shepard and him to be together.  I didn't ever romance him, same thing with Miranda, and the others.  But I can see why they'd be upset.  I chose correctly - and I don't mean that to insult.  They chose their canon romances badly.  That's what the game is saying to them.  Good stories create and perpetuate emotional connections.  This one treated people to the idea of non-canon romances but ultimately without saying it, says one romance is canon because it is the most fully explored and continuous one in the game.  I don't think it's canon, but that's what the game is telling us.

How Bioware treated a lot of the romances was like you're in love, war's on, now you're acquaintances.  I daresay has they used the ME2 (at least the romancable characters) as crewmates in ME3 from the get go, people would not have been saying "oh them again, wish we had new crew members instead".  I'd have been pretty much fine with things if the core group had been maintained.  I even look at how funny it is how Jacob was handled and to me he's the least out in front character of all the crew members.  No matter what the relationship with him, he's got a girlfriend with a bun in the oven.

All romances are treated sort of like this.  I like you, I love you, I really really love you, you're my friend goodbye.  Emotionally unsatisfying.

[Xilizhra]

StreetMagic wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I think the main thing I miss about Jack is she was a good mirror to how I already saw Shepard. A bit unhinged, destructive, etc.. And the story was more lighthearted with her or Grunt around. Or even little touches, like Zaeed laughing when he threw his grenades. "Hell yeah!" Everything about ME3 is brought to more serious, war drama levels. And the people you talk to most want to keep reinforcing that. Not my thing. Omega DLC with Aria was quite welcome, because it was another taste of this kind of atmosphere again.

Out of curiosity, what else would you want out of a war this major?

I don't want anything except fun. I want outlandish video game experiences/ and larger than life game characters. Not life lessons and more "humane" takes on the subject. I have enough of humanity. I like escapism. I'm proud to be shallow when it comes to entertaiment like this. I make no apologies.

Then why are you playing a game about galactic war with billions of casualties?

[CronoDragoon]

3DandBeyond wrote...
But that's the big problem when you set up a game in this way.  It's the same thing people felt if they romanced Kaidan or Ashley in ME1-how they were treated in ME2.  And these are games that were all about those kinds of choices.  See you don't care that much about them specifically Miranda because you didn't like her, so you were kind of ok with all that.  But it's all about POV.  I never saw Miranda as my favorite either but after really considering her situation, I ended up liking her as much as I did Jack (who I liked a lot) for similar reasons.  They had similar pasts that played out in different ways.  I ended up really liking all of them for the reasons I've given-they touched that part of me that sees a stray puppy and wants to help it.

I like all the characters, and I really like Miranda. I'm not sure why you think I don't like her? I've even said that I felt she was important enough to the story to be a squadmate. Grunt is one of my favorite ME characters but I don't want more ME3 content for him. He's not that important to the story and a side mission was enough.

As far as Thane specifically-sure he has stuff to do, but all that action stuff, saving the Salarian isn't what mostly mattered to someone that romanced him.

Oh, well, this thread said it wasn't about the romance issues. I agree that Thane's romance content is underwhelming, along with Jacob's. I'm more arguing about people who think the AMOUNT of content regardless of friend or lover was not what it should have been.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 25 octobre 2013 - 02:22 .

[CronoDragoon]

boo double post.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 25 octobre 2013 - 02:21 .