290 réponses à ce sujet

[clarkusdarkus]

Well i was disappointed my the cameo roles for ME1 squadmates in ME2 so they did the same for ME2 squadmates in ME3.

[Stakrin]

crimzontearz wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
the death scene was idiotic, not in its execution (I liked that) but in its needlessness given what caused it

It's really irrelevant to me how things play out. Perhaps they could have choreographed the fight with Leng better but the bottom line would not have changed: Thane sacrificed himself to save the salarian.

how things play out is very relevant. If Shepard arrived to the scene after to find Thane wounded and dying after defending the councilor with his very last breath I would have been 100% ok with it


 
As it is that scene makes me feel Shepard, Garrus and Liara were completely incompetent

i like to think things were moving much faster than what we saw, and there was no way Shepard could have shot and been sure he or she didn't hit Thane

[crimzontearz]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Oh and do not play Citadel if you romanced him, it is only going to ****** you off

Yeah right....


Thane is easily one of my least favorite characters, and that scene in the Citadel still had me all choked up. So well done. OP, if you're a die-hard Thane fan, play Citadel.

uh, I am not a diehard Thane fan, but I lingered in the Thane support thread for a while to show support....diehard Thane fans did not seem pleased

Die-hard Thane fans wouldn't have been pleased about anything.

should they take the shameless retcon, minimal ciradel content, forced derp and forced death with a smile and ask for more?

No, I simply responded to the idea that it'd be possible to please Thane fans. We all know that'd never have happened.

I would not bet on it

[crimzontearz]

Stakrin wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
the death scene was idiotic, not in its execution (I liked that) but in its needlessness given what caused it

It's really irrelevant to me how things play out. Perhaps they could have choreographed the fight with Leng better but the bottom line would not have changed: Thane sacrificed himself to save the salarian.

how things play out is very relevant. If Shepard arrived to the scene after to find Thane wounded and dying after defending the councilor with his very last breath I would have been 100% ok with it


 
As it is that scene makes me feel Shepard, Garrus and Liara were completely incompetent

i like to think things were moving much faster than what we saw, and there was no way Shepard could have shot and been sure he or she didn't hit Thane

right...but they not, and it stands the scene is idiotic

[3DandBeyond]

Baihu1983 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

You're upset your time wasn't as long as you wanted it to be.....even though you knowingly chose to romance a terminally ill character?



Your point is moot in this instance.

Yep. Thane deserved a better death in 3 but come on. He tells you the first time you meet him in 2 nothing can be done at this stage of the illness but people still expected Shepard to find a cure?

Ok really?  People have got to stop putting words into other people's mouths.  I never had Shepard and Thane as a couple but I can literally imagine what they wanted-time together before saying goodbye.  In fact, this is one thing Bioware is just not consistent with.  You create a game that allows people the choice of who to put together as a romantic couple-you owe it to them to end even a hopeless situation in an emotionally satisfying way.  Also, you create these somewhat fully fleshed out feeling characters who are meant to tug at people emotionally, you then owe the people "reading" your story or playing your game the satisfaction of playing out all their stories in a way that isn't like being pushed off a cliff.

Yes, Thane was dying.  But it almost seems like Shepard spent more time mulling and fretting over Ashley (or I assume Kaidan) than with Thane and that's even if neither VS is a love interest.  That's what's wrong-it's not a case of always wanting someone to swoop in and miraculously cure Thane (but there's a case for at least extending his life until the end of the game or doing it the justice that Mordin's end got).

If some wanted him cured then a lot of that likely stems from not having much of a real romantic story line in ME3 with him.  BW created this monster themselves-they wrote some amazing characters that people in a sense truly loved.  They should have been proud of that and then honored by what people felt about what they'd created and then honored those fans in return by remembering they loved these characters.  Instead, some of them are relegated to a couple lines and a slide at the end and the main one is just treated kind of like crap.  It is about respect and honoring what you've created and who you created it for.

[3DandBeyond]

crimzontearz wrote...

right...but they not, and it stands the scene is idiotic

Yep, the fact that Thane dies not from his disease but because of the encounter with a crap character that was so cartoonish and laughable (please no one tell me one more time how dark ME3 is with an idiot like Leng in it), is rather treating Thane like crap.  He was a very deep character with a rather tragic past who at last got some short chance to re-connect with his son and to be truly alive for the first time in a long time, and then oops, he's dead.  Wonderful.

[crimzontearz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

right...but they not, and it stands the scene is idiotic

Yep, the fact that Thane dies not from his disease but because of the encounter with a crap character that was so cartoonish and laughable (please no one tell me one more time how dark ME3 is with an idiot like Leng in it), is rather treating Thane like crap.  He was a very deep character with a rather tragic past who at last got some short chance to re-connect with his son and to be truly alive for the first time in a long time, and then oops, he's dead.  Wonderful.

the fact he points a gun at Leng's head but never takes the shot is infuriating


 
Worse, for all intents and purposes his disease (as originally intended) was curable. And the retcon makes NO sense

[Han Shot First]

Actually Thane's disease was originally incurable. It was described as having no known cure, and Thane makes it clear from the beginning that his illness was terminal.

The LotSB DLC however offered some hope to the Thanemancers campaigning for a cure, as it offered the possibility that Thane's life could be extended with a lung transplant. It never stated he could be outright cured, but some fans apparently took it that way. In any case, had Bioware introduced a cure for Kepral's Syndrome that would have been the retcon.

[DeinonSlayer]

Han Shot First wrote...

Actually Thane's disease was originally incurable. It was described as having no known cure, and Thane makes it clear from the beginning that his illness was terminal.

The LotSB DLC however offered some hope to the Thanemancers campaigning for a cure, as it offered the possibility that Thane's life could be extended with a lung transplant. It never stated he could be outright cured, but some fans apparently took it that way. In any case, had Bioware introduced a cure for Kepral's Syndrome that would have been the retcon.

Sort of like how the Genophage was retconned in ME2 from across-the-board sterility to measured "population control" in ME2, then back to species-threatening sterility in ME3.

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Actually Thane's disease was originally incurable. It was described as having no known cure, and Thane makes it clear from the beginning that his illness was terminal.

The LotSB DLC however offered some hope to the Thanemancers campaigning for a cure, as it offered the possibility that Thane's life could be extended with a lung transplant. It never stated he could be outright cured, but some fans apparently took it that way. In any case, had Bioware introduced a cure for Kepral's Syndrome that would have been the retcon.

Sort of like how the Genophage was retconned in ME2 from across-the-board sterility to measured "population control" in ME2, then back to species-threatening sterility in ME3.

Now it only affects females not males.   That seems a bit of a retcon.

[MACharlie1]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Actually Thane's disease was originally incurable. It was described as having no known cure, and Thane makes it clear from the beginning that his illness was terminal.

The LotSB DLC however offered some hope to the Thanemancers campaigning for a cure, as it offered the possibility that Thane's life could be extended with a lung transplant. It never stated he could be outright cured, but some fans apparently took it that way. In any case, had Bioware introduced a cure for Kepral's Syndrome that would have been the retcon.

Sort of like how the Genophage was retconned in ME2 from across-the-board sterility to measured "population control" in ME2, then back to species-threatening sterility in ME3.

I believe that was almost the point of difference between ME2 and ME3 in regards to the Genophage; Mordin kept pushing that the Genophage was meant to be a population control but it turned into a species threatening sterility - not because of the disease itself but by it's implications. Fertile females are fought over between clans which is what is really wiping the species out. And then because of this, Krogan find staying on Tuchanka trying to help pointless and hire to become mercenaries. Added that the Krogans were not ready to be uplifted by the Salarians since they had not worked out their aggression. And then the Genophage hits and they act even MORE aggressive. 

[crimzontearz]

Han Shot First wrote...

Actually Thane's disease was originally incurable. It was described as having no known cure, and Thane makes it clear from the beginning that his illness was terminal.

The LotSB DLC however offered some hope to the Thanemancers campaigning for a cure, as it offered the possibility that Thane's life could be extended with a lung transplant. It never stated he could be outright cured, but some fans apparently took it that way. In any case, had Bioware introduced a cure for Kepral's Syndrome that would have been the retcon.

.....

So....in a world were cloning is pretty much commonplace a diseases that causes the lungs to fail over time because of moisture in the air sounds incurable to  you...REALLY?

Also, in ME3 it goes from a COPD situation to a hemoglobin issue. So either A: it is treated as a SEVERE sickle cell anemy issue which I CAN see as incurable, OR B: it is still caused by the moisture on the hanar homeworld (that is never denied) in which case the moisture acts as a competitive inhibitor for the Oxygen (like CO does) and it is nothing a series of transfusions and living in an arid place would not solve.


 
I understand it is science fiction but FFS make it sound believable at least.

[Mr.House]

StreetMagic wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

In ME1, I think Liara shared some thematic qualities with Wynne from Dragon Age.. (except Wynne's dialogue on this subject was more extensive). She put Shepard and being the "first human Spectre" thing on a pedestal and urged him/her to care about representing humanity. Basic idealist notions about how you should be a good example to the children out there. Wynne does the same thing. Except didn't offer sex.

But in ME3 I see no good reason either thematic or narrative to keep her around.

Me either. She lost her ME1 theme in LotSB already. And she lost her
Prothean expertise in light of both Shepard and Javik. She's just a fan
favorite. And I guess, one of Mac's vehicles for Shepard's newfound
emotions/humanity/PTSD. She's there to be a sounding board for those
themes.

Because Garrus is also not there for that reason right?

[Mr.House]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

In ME1, I think Liara shared some thematic qualities with Wynne from Dragon Age.. (except Wynne's dialogue on this subject was more extensive). She put Shepard and being the "first human Spectre" thing on a pedestal and urged him/her to care about representing humanity. Basic idealist notions about how you should be a good example to the children out there. Wynne does the same thing. Except didn't offer sex.

But in ME3 I see no good reason either thematic or narrative to keep her around.

Me either. She lost her ME1 theme in LotSB already. And she lost her
Prothean expertise in light of both Shepard and Javik. She's just a fan
favorite. And I guess, one of Mac's vehicles for Shepard's newfound
emotions/humanity/PTSD. She's there to be a sounding board for those
themes.

Because Garrus is also not there for that reason right?

Garrus is there for Shepard to hold back the tears and act experienced. Ruthless calculus and all that. But Liara wants the "true Shepard". Only she is entitled to that.

You might want to take off those glasses.

[Han Shot First]

crimzontearz wrote...

So....in a world were cloning is pretty much commonplace a diseases that causes the lungs to fail over time because of moisture in the air sounds incurable to  you...REALLY?

*snip*

I understand it is science fiction but FFS make it sound believable at least.

Whether or not Kepral's syndrome was plausible is a different discussion from whether or not it was or should have been canonically curable. According to the canon, it was a terminal illness with no known cure. I wouldn't have been a fan of the writers presenting Kepral's Syndrome as a fatal illness with no known cure, only to then say, "Well except for Thane...he is special. Apparently his love for Siha regenerates lung tissue."

Whether or not Kepral's Syndrome itself is implausible, having Thane be the first person to be cured from it would require an even greater suspension of disbelief. It would have also been bad writing, as his entire character arc in Mass Effect 2 revolved around that terminal illness.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sort of like how the Genophage was retconned in ME2 from across-the-board sterility to measured "population control" in ME2, then back to species-threatening sterility in ME3.

When a population-control check is coupled with a war where the daily death toll numbers in the millions, then population-control becomes species-threatening (it continues to amaze me how people overlook the existence of the Reaper war).

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 27 octobre 2013 - 03:25 .

[grey_wind]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sort of like how the Genophage was retconned in ME2 from across-the-board sterility to measured "population control" in ME2, then back to species-threatening sterility in ME3.

When a population-control check is coupled with a war where the daily death toll numbers in the millions, then population-control becomes species-threatening (it continues to amaze me how people overlook the existence of the Reaper war).

That still is no reason the Genophage has to go from 0.01% to 100%. A sustainable population in light of the reaper war wouldn't require the Genophage to be raised to any more than 0.5%, and even that's being absurdly generous.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

StreetMagic wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sort of like how the Genophage was retconned in ME2 from across-the-board sterility to measured "population control" in ME2, then back to species-threatening sterility in ME3.

When a population-control check is coupled with a war where the daily death toll numbers in the millions, then population-control becomes species-threatening (it continues to amaze me how people overlook the existence of the Reaper war).

Probably because the Reaper war stinks and all of these other political/cultural/social issues are interesting and game worthy by themselves. It's easy to forget the Reapers in light of the rest of Mass Effect.

Good point though. If I have to think about ****ing Reapers, then good point.

I agree, this is just a pet-peeve of mine as it relates to discussing said issues, though. It comes up a lot. All too many people approach (or complain about) these things in ME3 as if they take place under normal circumstances, and have the same expectations. Expectations like: the genophage is not that dire as ME1 & 2 stated, no drastic action (cure or sabotage) is needed... Legion should stick to his old morals while his people are faced with extinction...

.... and many others I won't mention, as it will just derail this thread even further.

And believe me, I agree, the Reaper war/plot is trite as anything. However, I do like the way it factored into these pre-existing issues: the luxury of time and resources are gone, and there is added urgency/pressure in finding resolutions.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

grey_wind wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sort of like how the Genophage was retconned in ME2 from across-the-board sterility to measured "population control" in ME2, then back to species-threatening sterility in ME3.

When a population-control check is coupled with a war where the daily death toll numbers in the millions, then population-control becomes species-threatening (it continues to amaze me how people overlook the existence of the Reaper war).

That still is no reason the Genophage has to go from 0.01% to 100%. A sustainable population in light of the reaper war wouldn't require the Genophage to be raised to any more than 0.5%, and even that's being absurdly generous.

There are other reasons too, however. Such as, it being immoral.