206 réponses à ce sujet

[Caldari Ghost]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

um, yes. why would you not use those two ammo types versus geth?

Because some people play Unknown Unknown games and Warp Ammo is better against Collectors and Reapers and Phasic Ammo is better against Cerberus and Geth and with my luck I get Geth whenever I choose Warp ammo.

Anyway Black Widow is still better than Javelin in most situations even with the right ammo types, especially when playing off-host where the Javelin shooting delay is a big factor in decreasing its effectiveness compared to the Black Widow.

not sure where to take this. maybe you're right in that a U/U/P black widow build is more effective versus geth than a similar build with javelin. however the way you articulate your point...?

I have spent far more time playing U/U/P off-host than any other lobby type, with varying amounts of lag, many of those games using a javelin. your references to your playstyle are of no significance to me, that is simply the results of our unique playstyles.

at 700 hours i dont need to care what i bring into a platinum PUG, as long as it is not unreasonably ineffective. Platinum has a little bit of each anyways.

what faction i might face has absolutely no influence on what i plan to bring. at this point it's just whatever amuses me, whatever seems interesting, with no regard to how effective it might be against any one faction.

you've said many times you have at the very least over 2000 hours put into this game.
and with how much you like to point out that you are a plat pugger, it should matter even less to you than it does to me.

in which case you'd be dead, so, eh, never mind.

well, there goes my credibility. this little series of posts is so fulll of subjective observation from both sides.

k, how about this: you provide some details about how you were led to believe the things you said in your most immediete post, like "BW is better than javelin when used with proper ammo types".

moar information pls.

and i will try to do so myself, and respond accordingly. of course.

javelin delay is subjective. i do better with it than without it.

Modifié par Caldari Ghost, 26 octobre 2013 - 03:36 .

[Caldari Ghost]

i'm just going to take this spot because it's free.

[FasterThanFTL]

Caldari Ghost wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

um, yes. why would you not use those two ammo types versus geth?

Because some people play Unknown Unknown games and Warp Ammo is better against Collectors and Reapers and Phasic Ammo is better against Cerberus and Geth and with my luck I get Geth whenever I choose Warp ammo.

Anyway Black Widow is still better than Javelin in most situations even with the right ammo types, especially when playing off-host where the Javelin shooting delay is a big factor in decreasing its effectiveness compared to the Black Widow.

not sure where to take this. maybe you're right in that a U/U/P black widow build is more effective versus geth than a similar build with javelin. however the way you articulate your point...?

I have spent far more time playing U/U/P off-host than any other lobby type, with varying amounts of lag, many of those games using a javelin. your references to your playstyle are of no significance to me, that is simply the results of our unique playstyles.

at 700 hours i dont need to care what i bring into a platinum PUG, as long as it is not unreasonably ineffective. Platinum has a little bit of each anyways.

what faction i might face has absolutely no influence on what i plan to bring. at this point it's just whatever amuses me, whatever seems interesting, with no regard to how effective it might be against any one faction.

you've said many times you have at the very least over 2000 hours put into this game.
and with how much you like to point out that you are a plat pugger, it should matter even less to you than it does to me.

in which case you'd be dead, so, eh, never mind.

well, there goes my credibility. this little series of posts is so fulll of subjective observation from both sides.

k, how about this: you provide some details about how you were led to believe the things you said in your most immediete post, like "BW is better than javelin when used with proper ammo types".

moar information pls.

and i will try to do so myself, and respond accordingly. of course.

javelin delay is subjective. i do better with it than without it.

There are some situations where Javelin is definitely better than the Black Widow but overall Black Widow is just better than Javelin in most situations. If you can regualrly headshot with both then Black Widow wins by default. Same goes for Wraith being better than Claymore.

Modifié par FasterThanFTL, 26 octobre 2013 - 03:43 .

[Caldari Ghost]

eh, if thats all you're going to say then fine. waste of time imo.

Modifié par Caldari Ghost, 26 octobre 2013 - 04:12 .

[KalGerion_Beast]

So, if I am getting this right...

Arc Pistol>Black Widow>Javelin

amidoingitrite?

[cronshaw]

IMaster757 wrote...

So, if I am getting this right...

Arc Pistol>Black Widow>Javelin

amidoingitrite?

You forgot either:
you're a scrub if you don't agree
or
L2play
or
Thunderdome me

[FasterThanFTL]

Caldari Ghost wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

um, yes. why would you not use those two ammo types versus geth?

Because some people play Unknown Unknown games and Warp Ammo is better against Collectors and Reapers and Phasic Ammo is better against Cerberus and Geth and with my luck I get Geth whenever I choose Warp ammo.

Anyway Black Widow is still better than Javelin in most situations even with the right ammo types, especially when playing off-host where the Javelin shooting delay is a big factor in decreasing its effectiveness compared to the Black Widow.

not sure where to take this. maybe you're right in that a U/U/P black widow build is more effective versus geth than a similar build with javelin. however the way you articulate your point...?

I have spent far more time playing U/U/P off-host than any other lobby type, with varying amounts of lag, many of those games using a javelin. your references to your playstyle are of no significance to me, that is simply the results of our unique playstyles.

at 700 hours i dont need to care what i bring into a platinum PUG, as long as it is not unreasonably ineffective. Platinum has a little bit of each anyways.

what faction i might face has absolutely no influence on what i plan to bring. at this point it's just whatever amuses me, whatever seems interesting, with no regard to how effective it might be against any one faction.

you've said many times you have at the very least over 2000 hours put into this game.
and with how much you like to point out that you are a plat pugger, it should matter even less to you than it does to me.

in which case you'd be dead, so, eh, never mind.

well, there goes my credibility. this little series of posts is so fulll of subjective observation from both sides.

k, how about this: you provide some details about how you were led to believe the things you said in your most immediete post, like "BW is better than javelin when used with proper ammo types".

moar information pls.

and i will try to do so myself, and respond accordingly. of course.

javelin delay is subjective. i do better with it than without it.

There are some situations where Javelin is definitely better than the Black Widow but overall Black Widow is just better than Javelin in most situations. If you can regualrly headshot with both then Black Widow wins by default. Same goes for Wraith being better than Claymore.

again, i would like you to expand on your assertions that BW is overall better than javelin. as to headshotting, that again depends. on a pure weapons build; it does make sense with minimal thought. however in any case regarding that one point, if you happen to be using any kind of elemental ammo setting off combinations will, if you can reload-cancel reliably, provide a CQC nullifier, a secondary source of damage equivalent to a sidearm, (except that you can use both at the same time), and an AOE shortcut to clearing out groups of mooks at a distance, bypassing any need to headshot reliably, especially considering javelin is more likely to break down shields and allow you to set off whatever combo you may have ( of course these all do the same thing).

ok, the inconsistency of sidearms in this game lead me to believe that one detail is utter crap.

erhmargerd, i still have time. let me just edit the crap outta this post real quick.

Black Widow = Batman
Javelin = Superman

Both weapons have their strengths but Black Widow will always win because it has no Kryptonite.

Modifié par FasterThanFTL, 26 octobre 2013 - 04:15 .

[Caldari Ghost]

.

Modifié par Caldari Ghost, 26 octobre 2013 - 04:24 .

[Simba501]

I like the Javelin delay. I can react and stop the shot when needed.

Modifié par Simba501, 26 octobre 2013 - 04:33 .

[Zjarcal]

Ziegrif wrote...

Now people are agreeing with ME!
KROGAN SNIPERS ALL DAY!

Post that old T.E.A. sig you had.

[Tokenusername]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Black Widow = Batman
Javelin = Superman

Both weapons have their strengths but Black Widow will always win because it has no Kryptonite.

Batman's Kryptonite is dead parents.

[Jaun Shepard]

Tokenusername wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Black Widow = Batman
Javelin = Superman

Both weapons have their strengths but Black Widow will always win because it has no Kryptonite.

Batman's Kryptonite is dead parents.

I thought getting his parents killed inspired him to be Batman.

[Tokenusername]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Black Widow = Batman
Javelin = Superman

Both weapons have their strengths but Black Widow will always win because it has no Kryptonite.

Batman's Kryptonite is dead parents.

I thought getting his parents killed inspired him to be Batman.

He's still kind of upset about it.

[LemurFromTheId]

This discussion again...

Making blanket statements on how one great gun is better than another great gun is just plain stupid (how's that for a blanket statement?)

They're both excellent sniper rifles, and which one is better depends on multiple factors like kit, build, equipment, difficulty, enemy, playstyle and good old personal preference.

For example:

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Try using Warp Ammo on both guns against Geth Gold, you will see Javelin fail miserably while the Black Widow will shine as usual.

Javelin with Warp Ammo is never a failure with properly specced Salarian Infiltrator. ED can remove shields from any mook except Hunter or Pyro with a single cast, and Hunters and Pyros you can still OSOK with a headshot - even without ED.

Another example: Javelin is way better choice for a Geth Trooper.

[HusarX]

Meh. Real men use Executioner.

[Deerber]

No.

[Creator Limbs]

Deerber wrote...

No.

[I Am Robot]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

Black Widow = Batman
Javelin = Superman

Both weapons have their strengths but Black Widow will always win because it has no Kryptonite.

I still don't have the BW but from what I know about the weapons I'd say the Javelin's better.  It's also my favorite weapon in the game. But that's not the main point I wanna make. 
The point I wanna make is that nothing is equal or EVEN compareable to the Batman. He is above the Javelin, the BW, The Flash, Green Lantern AND Superman.. all put together. 

Modifié par Farid-Yoda-N7, 26 octobre 2013 - 11:30 .

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Black Widow does not have that sexy "vrrrrt" sound before things die, so the Javelin is better.

[78stonewobble]

Evil Mastered wrote...

A black widow can kill three mooks in roughly the same time that a reload-cancelled javelin needs to kill two mooks, but the reload-canceled javelin will take down bosses more quickly, especially if you get entry-exit wounds on them with AP.

The difficulty you play on will make a difference to which one performs better, as silvers larger number of mooks favors the BW, whilst platinums boss spam favours the javelin, and on gold they are both good options.

Kit choice can also make a difference, an MQI would likely prefer the javelin to wreck bosses, since his arc grenades already pwn mooks en masse, while a SI would likely prefer the BW since he can already wreak bosses with any sniper rifle because of the combination of TC and PM, but has less AoE effectiveness, so he benefits from the greater mook-killing effectiveness of the BW.

Different tools for different jobs, both are great at popping domes, but I prefer a long range weapon that can take an omni-blade .

You can also reload cancel on the BW, but I tend to agree with your assessment.

Also offcourse individual differences. If you just absolutely can't hit with the javelin... then it's an exceptionally poor choice for you. And I guess the opposite can be true with the BW.

[BridgeBurner]

MasterReefa wrote...

Annomander wrote...

And what happens if I don't rely on the crutch of tactical cloak? All of a sudden, when I can no longer OHK things with the blackwidow, it becomes a markedly less attractive gun in comparison to the javelin.

then you're doing it wrong

So what you're saying is I need to use 1 out of 6 classes in order for the BW to surpass the javelin.

So for the other 5 classes, the javelin is still top dawg, making the javelin the best weapon 84% of the time.

[78stonewobble]

Annomander wrote...

MasterReefa wrote...

Annomander wrote...

And what happens if I don't rely on the crutch of tactical cloak? All of a sudden, when I can no longer OHK things with the blackwidow, it becomes a markedly less attractive gun in comparison to the javelin.

then you're doing it wrong

So what you're saying is I need to use 1 out of 6 classes in order for the BW to surpass the javelin.

So for the other 5 classes, the javelin is still top dawg, making the javelin the best weapon 84% of the time.

With the crutch of using weapons to do a majority of damage on power based classes... Sure...

[BridgeBurner]

78stonewobble wrote...

Annomander wrote...

MasterReefa wrote...

Annomander wrote...

And what happens if I don't rely on the crutch of tactical cloak? All of a sudden, when I can no longer OHK things with the blackwidow, it becomes a markedly less attractive gun in comparison to the javelin.

then you're doing it wrong

So what you're saying is I need to use 1 out of 6 classes in order for the BW to surpass the javelin.

So for the other 5 classes, the javelin is still top dawg, making the javelin the best weapon 84% of the time.

With the crutch of using weapons to do a majority of damage on power based classes... Sure...

It was merely an example.

Weapons spec trooper makes the javelin much better than the blackwidow, for example.

We are discussing the weapon, not the class it's used on. And why is it a crutch if you use a BW on say, a human engineer? The class is more effective if you use the jav / BW than set up tedious tech explosions which are less efficient anyway.

Plus, shooting things is always more fun and stimulating for me than letting mind-numbing auto-aiming powers do the work.

Tactical cloak is the only thing that makes the BW better than the javelin, and one ability is not grounds to claim one weapon is objectively better, particularly since 84% of the classes in the game are not afforded the luxury of stupidly high damage boosts for sniper rifles.

Modifié par Annomander, 26 octobre 2013 - 11:50 .

[Heldarion]

Annomander wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

Annomander wrote...

MasterReefa wrote...

Annomander wrote...

And what happens if I don't rely on the crutch of tactical cloak? All of a sudden, when I can no longer OHK things with the blackwidow, it becomes a markedly less attractive gun in comparison to the javelin.

then you're doing it wrong

So what you're saying is I need to use 1 out of 6 classes in order for the BW to surpass the javelin.

So for the other 5 classes, the javelin is still top dawg, making the javelin the best weapon 84% of the time.

With the crutch of using weapons to do a majority of damage on power based classes... Sure...

It was merely an example.

Weapons spec trooper makes the javelin much better than the blackwidow, for example.

We are discussing the weapon, not the class it's used on. And why is it a crutch if you use a BW on say, a human engineer? The class is more effective if you use the jav / BW than set up tedious tech explosions which are less efficient anyway.

Plus, shooting things is always more fun and stimulating for me than letting mind-numbing auto-aiming powers do the work.

Tactical cloak is the only thing that makes the BW better than the javelin, and one ability is not grounds to claim one weapon is objectively better, particularly since 84% of the classes in the game are not afforded the luxury of stupidly high damage boosts for sniper rifles.

Ah, but that's why you have Hurrdurricane. High weapon damage output and tech explosions (+lolincendiary glitch).

[MaxShine]

BW is more versatile, Javelin is more restricted to shooting only and has less synergy with powers (pretty hard to set up a tech burst if you kill the target in one shot, right?? ). Considering all other factors are equal the Javelin has a higher probability that some nice enemy (usually of the Geth or Dragoon type) interrupts your reload.

Modifié par MaxShine, 26 octobre 2013 - 12:28 .