196 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The answer to the silly prices for fish feeders, etc, is to not sell them because its price stupid. It's the future, fish feeders ought to be a default feature of big fish tanks. Sell something at that price that's useful and makes sense, like the full armor sets.

The game economy doesn't have to be full simulation "realistic" to make sense.

In 2185, Installing a fish tank without an automatic fish feeder is like installing a toilet without a seat FFS. 23000 CR? Those fish should s*** gold for that much.

Another thing, why didn't they give Shepard a damned private stock of booze or smokes? Why couldn't Shepard enjoy a glass of bourbon and a cigarette in her cabin? or even have a cigarette when she wanted? Why do only Batarians get to smoke? ME was so PC except for the racist jokes.

"You are now addicted to Nuka-Cola."

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

How the Mass Effect Universe Economy Works: 23000 CR for an electric timer that dispenses fish food, probably manufactured by Lockheed. Remember those $500 toilet seats that were identical to $9 toilet seats but were $500 because they went inside a B-52? And then there was the $200 flat head screwdriver that was identical to the $7.95 screwdriver you could buy at Sears. No, most of you probably don't. I'm guessing the DoD is still getting ripped off by private business and don't forget the graft and corruption that has nothing to do with what normal people pay for stuff. Shepard would be able to buy things cheaper from local shops with cash, and not places that sell to government militaries. You know the guy who is selling weapons out of the back of that shuttle parked over there. And this video.

I Love these comments of your Julia.

Problem is, everyone charges differently. Different companies = different prices. Different materials and so-forth, and the prices always change as time goes on. And don't forget the economic shift that things like the Battle of the Citadel would cause.
As for the fish-feeder, I'm guessing that's because of how many rare breeds of fish there are in the galaxy, and how many of them you can have at one time. Not having to expend the effort of feeding them every single day, and not having to buy new ones to replace the ones that die if you forget even once to feed them, the thing almost pays for itself.

:bandit: 

As for armor and guns, like I said, Shepard would be better off buying direct from the guy who just stole the shipment selling out of the back of the shuttle down at the end of the dock. 50% off.

The other thing is that they're not allowing us to make proper deals. Now a proper deal would be more like this.... At the start of the war fill out all the requisitions you can and have Cortez load up on all the booze, cigarettes; make a side trip to Illium and snag a s*** load of red sand; and other illicit drugs and stuff that we can. All of it on Hackett's budget. Fill up the cargo bays. Why? Because that stuff is going to be getting scarce as the war drags on and is going to be worth more than credits. Besides, by the time those requisitions clear accounting no one is going to care anyway. So you go to these arms dealers and take them out back, and you tell them, "look, you got this sweet set of armor, how about you knock 50% off the price and I throw in some sand. There's none around here and the demand is high. You can flip the sand for twice that easy and make a huge profit, and more than enough to pay C-sec to look the other way."

"But the guy in my area is a hard ass."

"Don't worry. I'll tell Bailey you want tickets to the 'Charity Ball', okay?" :innocent:  

And when you're on shore leave Cortez and company can sell the drugs in Purgatory, of course you'll have to give a cut to Aria.

The Fish --- It's an electric timer that dumps fish food in the tank. You fill the damned thing up with fish food about once a month. Every day at the same time it dispenses the proper amount of food to the fish. You can buy these things on Amazon. They're not that expensive, $26.98, FFS. I can go up there and press the damned button an the fish tank myself for free. It's not like these things are high tech. STFU. 

That, if anything, basically seems to indicate there is no galactic standard for pricing.
And not to be rude @Julia, but it's at least a dozen different fish from a dozen different wolds and habitats, each with a different metabolisam, feeding patterns and required nutriants. So, I daresay it's a bit more complex then that. Especally since maintaining said conditions for pets on a military starship when you've got missions to deploy for and places to head off towards can be a major pain.
And where the hell did the STFU come from? It's a fish tank -- I don't see why you'd get worked up over that.

[silverexile17s]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The answer to the silly prices for fish feeders, etc, is to not sell them because its price stupid. It's the future, fish feeders ought to be a default feature of big fish tanks. Sell something at that price that's useful and makes sense, like the full armor sets.

The game economy doesn't have to be full simulation "realistic" to make sense.

In 2185, Installing a fish tank without an automatic fish feeder is like installing a toilet without a seat FFS. 23000 CR? Those fish should s*** gold for that much.

Another thing, why didn't they give Shepard a damned private stock of booze or smokes? Why couldn't Shepard enjoy a glass of bourbon and a cigarette in her cabin? or even have a cigarette when she wanted? Why do only Batarians get to smoke? ME was so PC except for the racist jokes.

"You are now addicted to Nuka-Cola."

Bether that then being addicted cigarette. Remember what happened to Zaeed's friend?:innocent:

[David7204]

No. It 'indicates' this is a video game with prices that are meant to be fun and satisfying, not realistic.

[silverexile17s]

David7204 wrote...

Yes, actually, it does.

I would suggest we all simply regard the prices seen as non-canonical.

Since they're subject to change in accordnace with the collective economies of at least a dozen racres, that statement might be the most accurate reading of the Citadel economy anyone's going to get.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 novembre 2013 - 02:41 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The answer to the silly prices for fish feeders, etc, is to not sell them because its price stupid. It's the future, fish feeders ought to be a default feature of big fish tanks. Sell something at that price that's useful and makes sense, like the full armor sets.

The game economy doesn't have to be full simulation "realistic" to make sense.

In 2185, Installing a fish tank without an automatic fish feeder is like installing a toilet without a seat FFS. 23000 CR? Those fish should s*** gold for that much.

Another thing, why didn't they give Shepard a damned private stock of booze or smokes? Why couldn't Shepard enjoy a glass of bourbon and a cigarette in her cabin? or even have a cigarette when she wanted? Why do only Batarians get to smoke? ME was so PC except for the racist jokes.

"You are now addicted to Nuka-Cola."

Time to go see Julie Farkas @ The Followers of the Apocalypse.... again.... first it was "Psycho" then "Buffout". Now it's Nuka-Cola. Good thing we're on great terms and I get a discount.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

silverexile17s wrote...

And where the hell did the STFU come from? It's a fish tank -- I don't see why you'd get worked up over that.

Oh I'm just playin'.

[DeinonSlayer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The answer to the silly prices for fish feeders, etc, is to not sell them because its price stupid. It's the future, fish feeders ought to be a default feature of big fish tanks. Sell something at that price that's useful and makes sense, like the full armor sets.

The game economy doesn't have to be full simulation "realistic" to make sense.

In 2185, Installing a fish tank without an automatic fish feeder is like installing a toilet without a seat FFS. 23000 CR? Those fish should s*** gold for that much.

Another thing, why didn't they give Shepard a damned private stock of booze or smokes? Why couldn't Shepard enjoy a glass of bourbon and a cigarette in her cabin? or even have a cigarette when she wanted? Why do only Batarians get to smoke? ME was so PC except for the racist jokes.

"You are now addicted to Nuka-Cola."

Time to go see Julie Farkas @ The Followers of the Apocalypse.... again.... first it was "Psycho" then "Buffout". Now it's Nuka-Cola. Good thing we're on great terms and I get a discount.

Party Time Mentats FTW! :O:O:police:

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 09 novembre 2013 - 02:47 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

The answer to the silly prices for fish feeders, etc, is to not sell them because its price stupid. It's the future, fish feeders ought to be a default feature of big fish tanks. Sell something at that price that's useful and makes sense, like the full armor sets.

The game economy doesn't have to be full simulation "realistic" to make sense.

In 2185, Installing a fish tank without an automatic fish feeder is like installing a toilet without a seat FFS. 23000 CR? Those fish should s*** gold for that much.

Another thing, why didn't they give Shepard a damned private stock of booze or smokes? Why couldn't Shepard enjoy a glass of bourbon and a cigarette in her cabin? or even have a cigarette when she wanted? Why do only Batarians get to smoke? ME was so PC except for the racist jokes.

"You are now addicted to Nuka-Cola."

Time to go see Julie Farkas @ The Followers of the Apocalypse.... again.... first it was "Psycho" then "Buffout". Now it's Nuka-Cola. Good thing we're on great terms and I get a discount.

Party Time Mentats FTW! :O:O:police:

The was Med-X too. You do not want to be addicted to Med-X. 

And I get all these Caesar Assassins chasing me around. I'm through messing around. Cass has gone back to the hotel. Lily!!

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

And where the hell did the STFU come from? It's a fish tank -- I don't see why you'd get worked up over that.

Oh I'm just playin'.

Oh, thank god -- bad enough Kargresh never shut up about fish.
Honestly, what is it about fish that facinates people so much? Even Wrex was asking if he should try fishing on the Presidum Lake.

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...
snip

twisting something right and calling it wrong doesn't make it wrong.
I am not going to reply to that last post and explain why its extremely problematic. I am going to say for the last time that you should write your own numbers and match them to mind. because otherwise calling my reasoning and codex quotes wrong is baseless and a big waste of time.

 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
snip

twisting something right and calling it wrong doesn't make it wrong.
I am not going to reply to that last post and explain why its extremely problematic. I am going to say for the last time that you should write your own numbers and match them to mind. because otherwise calling my reasoning and codex quotes wrong is baseless and a big waste of time.

 

But you think Shepard having Cortez fill up the cargo bays with booze, cigarettes, red sand, and illicit drugs paid for early on with Alliance funds while that s*** is relatively cheap to barter with later on as the war drags on is a good idea? Cool. Shepard will keep a few cases of the good stuff and some smokes for herself, of course. And do a little profiteering, too, you know to help the war effort. Nothing wrong with that. People are going to want to take their minds off the war, and we got the stuff. We'll call this "Grand Theft Mass Effect"

I mean think about it. That messiness on Thessia may have been avoided with The Illusive Man. "Tell you what. Call off you goons here, and we'll share this data. I know you're running very low on smokes by now, and you're gonna be jonzing in another couple days. I got a case of top notch smokes on the Normandy with your name on it I can have delivered. Let me take this VI back to the Normandy. I'll make a copy of it and send it over to your ship with the case, deal? Maybe I'll throw in a case of scotch if you're nice about it. Obviously you've got a ship in orbit. No one has to get hurt."

TIM: "Now why would I do that?"

Shep: "Ever try to quit smoking? You get this nasty taste in your mouth, Your face feels like its going to slide off. You get irritable. You start making mistakes. You get headaches. Do you really want to go through that? I got your fix."

TIM: "Okay Shepard. You've got a deal. Kai Leng. Get out of there. Back to the ship. But you'd better be straight up with me Shepard."

Shepard: "Grab that data and let's get out of here."

Hackett: "Good work in getting that Crucible data. But giving that data to Cerberus? Are you out of your f****** mind? I should have you court martialed."

Shepard: "We had a deal. They had a gunship pointed at us. I made a deal. It's best you don't know the details, sir."

Hackett: "Speaking of which these requisitions just landed on my desk for some odd items."

Shepard: "Your signal is......  br... p." 

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
snip

twisting something right and calling it wrong doesn't make it wrong.
I am not going to reply to that last post and explain why its extremely problematic. I am going to say for the last time that you should write your own numbers and match them to mind. because otherwise calling my reasoning and codex quotes wrong is baseless and a big waste of time.

 

That's what you are doing, @erezkie. If someone says you're wrong, you refuse to acknowledge it. You just keep stalling it out without ever confronting the problem. This is proven by the fact that you are focusing on attacking me instead of the information I'm providing. If your words were true, you would be offering something to disprove my data -- instead you're making attacks on the person providing them.
I am going to say for the last time that you need to get accurate numbers first before requesting it from others. And I was also say for the last time that it's irrlivent since your numbers are wrong from the get-go since you based them on misinterpertations of the state of the galaxy (innacurate statements about turian military numbers, human population numbers, asari population vs recruitment rate, ect). If your starting facts are wrong, then the end result is going to be wrong no matter what kind of math you use. No equasion can get a correct answer from a wrong question.
And when I showed that you were either misinterpertng the Codex (you failed to note the turian military being their government), or that you were snipping out pieces of it (you stated turians as bad at economics, but failed to catch the second half of the sentance stating that they absorbed the volus into their government to compensate for that). then how can you say they [/u]were baseless? The Codex itself is contridictintg you, yet you still refuse to acknowledge that you were wrong. The only one wasting time is [u]you.

P.S. - even more proof of this is that you deleated all the posts on your ME Reimagined board that voiced any opposition to your ideas. Once again, instead of working through the problems you just opt to ignore it all -- you're just repeating BioWare's mistakes. No-one's going to continue supporting this if you keep ignoring all feedback just because you don't like people telling you that you're wrong.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 09 novembre 2013 - 08:57 .

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
snip

twisting something right and calling it wrong doesn't make it wrong.
I am not going to reply to that last post and explain why its extremely problematic. I am going to say for the last time that you should write your own numbers and match them to mind. because otherwise calling my reasoning and codex quotes wrong is baseless and a big waste of time.

 

But you think Shepard having Cortez fill up the cargo bays with booze, cigarettes, red sand, and illicit drugs paid for early on with Alliance funds while that s*** is relatively cheap to barter with later on as the war drags on is a good idea? Cool. Shepard will keep a few cases of the good stuff and some smokes for herself, of course. And do a little profiteering, too, you know to help the war effort. Nothing wrong with that. People are going to want to take their minds off the war, and we got the stuff. We'll call this "Grand Theft Mass Effect"

I mean think about it. That messiness on Thessia may have been avoided with The Illusive Man. "Tell you what. Call off you goons here, and we'll share this data. I know you're running very low on smokes by now, and you're gonna be jonzing in another couple days. I got a case of top notch smokes on the Normandy with your name on it I can have delivered. Let me take this VI back to the Normandy. I'll make a copy of it and send it over to your ship with the case, deal? Maybe I'll throw in a case of scotch if you're nice about it. Obviously you've got a ship in orbit. No one has to get hurt."

TIM: "Now why would I do that?"

Shep: "Ever try to quit smoking? You get this nasty taste in your mouth, Your face feels like its going to slide off. You get irritable. You start making mistakes. You get headaches. Do you really want to go through that? I got your fix."

TIM: "Okay Shepard. You've got a deal. Kai Leng. Get out of there. Back to the ship. But you'd better be straight up with me Shepard."

Shepard: "Grab that data and let's get out of here."

Hackett: "Good work in getting that Crucible data. But giving that data to Cerberus? Are you out of your f****** mind? I should have you court martialed."

Shepard: "We had a deal. They had a gunship pointed at us. I made a deal. It's best you don't know the details, sir."

Hackett: "Speaking of which these requisitions just landed on my desk for some odd items."

Shepard: "Your signal is......  br... p." 

....Where the hell do I sign up?

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...
snip
[

You been going around the bush for several pages now. the reason your posts were deleted from the reimagined page because they were there for the sake of argument. and not beneficial.

I have listened to many people before I published my numbers and I also listen to people on this thread when I change the asari numbers and the credit ratio.

You have failed to produce new evidence to this research and have failed to produce your alternate numbers. all you do around here is bash threads. there is simply nothing I can do to help you with this.

its a lazy behavior. to log on the bsn to bash other people threads without making a contribuation.

So please stop messing around and post those correct numbers of yours. or stop wasting my time with shallow comments.

you need to post the: population numbers, gdp numbers, credit value, military yearly budget numbers.
Total military numbers are not as important so you can skip that one. number of soldiers per country is important since its tied in to the salary expenditure.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
snip
[

You been going around the bush for several pages now. the reason your posts were deleted from the reimagined page because they were there for the sake of argument. and not beneficial.

I have listened to many people before I published my numbers and I also listen to people on this thread when I change the asari numbers and the credit ratio.

You have failed to produce new evidence to this research and have failed to produce your alternate numbers. all you do around here is bash threads. there is simply nothing I can do to help you with this.

its a lazy behavior. to log on the bsn to bash other people threads without making a contribuation.

So please stop messing around and post those correct numbers of yours. or stop wasting my time with shallow comments.

you need to post the: population numbers, gdp numbers, credit value, military yearly budget numbers.
Total military numbers are not as important so you can skip that one. number of soldiers per country is important since its tied in to the salary expenditure.

Only because you keep using the same wrong information. If you keep using the same incorrect statements, the same facts are going to disprove them. You yourself said it -- repeatedly stating something is fact when real facts are saying otherwise won't make you right. Problem is that it's what you're doing, and you accuse everyone else of it. It's basically a "you see corruption everywhere but in yourself" situation. And you also deleated posts from others, like @Heretic_Hanar. Others like @Julia and @Allyed left the writing staff entirely because they figured that it's better off trying to re-do the source material to have a more realistic edge to it -- and after reviewing their more recent comments, I'm starting to believe it now.

Only the people you *want* to listen to. It's called "selective interpertation," also known as a "Confirmation Bias" - a tendency to believe only what they want to believe or only when they want to believe it. You take things like that because they're minor and don't outright disprobe your claims. But when something does outright disprove your claims(like the information about turian governmental structure, or human population numbers galaxywide), you shut it out and refuse to take it under consideration.

Once again, that's because there isn't any point to put up numbers against ones that are already blatently inocrrect. There's no point in putting up my own numbers because yours don't even use accurate information. You failed to put up accurate numbers first, and thus failed to make your own point. You didn't provide any accurate numbers to compare against in the first place. I'm not "bashing" threads -- I'm simply stating the truth.

I did. I pointed out that you were (A) wrong about turians being bad entrapinures because they assimilated the volus, ( were wrong about the asari economy numbers since one third of their population doesn't even contribute to it, © were wrong about human and batarian positioning on the galactic power ladder, and (D) were wrong about turian military numbers since their entire government is a military orginization, among other things. When you're right about something, I'll acknowledge it (Like I did when I agreed with your statement that the asari were a lazy race when it came to galactic development). I'm correcting what you are worng on so that you can improve the asnwers with more accurate information. Yet somehow you seem to have taken it personal, and it didn't have to be since that was never the case -- at least on my end.

Like I said, it's not about numbers, since yours are wrong from the get-go. The facts you based your numbers off of are wrong, so any numbers you got from them would also be wrong -- as much as you try to act like it, it's not rocket sicence @erezkie. Any statement, mathmatical equasion, or historical observation can be wrong if it's based on untrue or misinterperted data. You seem to think this is a numbers debate -- it's not. That was my whole *point.* It's about the facts that the numbers come from -- you're facts are wrong and thus, the numbers you got from them would be wrong too. You don't need a numbers comparison to figure that out.

It;s irrlivent because You need to post: population numbers, gdp numbers, credit value, & military yearly budget numbers that are based on the in-game facts, and not your misinterpertations of them. The facts you used about population numbers, gdp numbers, credit value, & military yearly budget numbers were all wrong or misinterperted, so why would the numbers you drew from them be accurate?
You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying - again. I'm not disputing your math -- I never was. I was disputing your source material as being innacurate since it's not what's in the game.

Stop taking everything as a stab towards you. If someone says your facts are wrong, that's typcally all they mean -- they aren't insilting your intelligence. Mearly pointing out that you made mistakes.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 02:00 .

[silverexile17s]

alleyd wrote...

 I must admit that I am a bit mystified how anything constructive in this argument. The simple fact is Bioware never ground out supporting lore for some of the statements made regards population figures in ME1 where the dialogue was first used. This one line has no supporting evidence in the rest of the franchise history. Certainly if you add all the listed worlds in the MEU codex population figures, the figure is well short of trillions. So for the assumptions being valid, they would need supporting codex of the same quality of construction as that which Bioware produced to support the entire franchise, and it would be many, many times larger to support the statement of trillions of beings in Council space.  Then try and get the idea across to the fanbase to "accept".

Good Luck with that one. 

Also using Norway as an analogue for humanity is such an incorrect assumption. Norway's history has not generated the sort of revolution and impact that Humans are doing in the MEU since the Viking Era. Not knocking the idea, just wantied to suggest another perspective.

Look at humanity's timeline in the MEU closely.  In one generation they have exploded across the galaxy and shaken the political and economic foundations of the other races. We became a galactic industrial race in less than a decade and within a generation humans have colonised large reaches of space, seized political control of major colony worlds. Created trade routes and built fuelling infrastructure and state of the art space vehicles. 

The closest analogue of a small population making the sort of economic, political, colonisation, technological progression and military achievements within a short timeline is not Norway,  most fitting is the British and how they created their Empire. The English Empire was built, not on the fleets of the RN, but by the fleets of Trading empires. They had ships and raised private armies that could fight in their own right, against other Empires, slavers and pirates. Especially in Asia

Humans are facing hostility on many sides in their race through the galaxy and the consortiums who drove this race would have needed vessels of their own and armies of their own. One of the "forgotten" planets is Anhur, the scene of a human-batarian conflict about slavery. The "abolitionists" won that conflict in 2 years IIRC. That was fought, not by the Alliance, but by a human militia supported by a Merc army, one of them named were the Blue Suns. They originate on Zorya, a non alliance world. 

The dialogue in ME2 states that the Attican Traverse, Terminus and Nemean Abyss are not under Alliance control, neither is Noveria. Planet by Planet WIKI analysis states that the Alliance only have representation or control of a handful of human colonies and the inner  Sol system.  These sort of lore suggest to me that there are large private fleets and armies in MEU humanity that could be far more potent a force than the Alliance themselves.

The GDP figures could be invalid in that these are peacetime economies. Change Alliance to Britain and you have a stat record on the net that shows how a powerful nation changed its spending in the World Wars, that analysis could help generate a codex and economic model for the campaign that is a more fitting analogue than Norway, Switzerland et al.

Zaeed led one of these groups - the Blue Suns. Also, you have a point since there were human merecnaries attacking the Alliance in the Skyllian Blitz, confriming that not every human-based PMC favors the Alliance and that some may actually be antogonistic to them. You get tips of that on Horizon with that mechanic Dillian, who says half the reason people establish Terminus colonies is to get away from the Alliance.

It's like you said - Humans are widespread, but they're hardly a united force, militarily or economocally. They're a fractured state -- independant economies and such.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

alleyd's posts are dead on. This is very true. So much is done post ME3 to justify what happened before. The Alliance would have gotten ripped a new one in a trial if it were made public. The galactic economic numbers and population stuff not to mention BW's astronomy are a joke. Hence, my trolling in this thread.

[silverexile17s]

alleyd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

alleyd wrote...

 I must admit that I am a bit mystified how anything constructive in this argument. The simple fact is Bioware never ground out supporting lore for some of the statements made regards population figures in ME1 where the dialogue was first used. This one line has no supporting evidence in the rest of the franchise history. Certainly if you add all the listed worlds in the MEU codex population figures, the figure is well short of trillions. So for the assumptions being valid, they would need supporting codex of the same quality of construction as that which Bioware produced to support the entire franchise, and it would be many, many times larger to support the statement of trillions of beings in Council space.  Then try and get the idea across to the fanbase to "accept".

Good Luck with that one. 

Also using Norway as an analogue for humanity is such an incorrect assumption. Norway's history has not generated the sort of revolution and impact that Humans are doing in the MEU since the Viking Era. Not knocking the idea, just wantied to suggest another perspective.

Look at humanity's timeline in the MEU closely.  In one generation they have exploded across the galaxy and shaken the political and economic foundations of the other races. We became a galactic industrial race in less than a decade and within a generation humans have colonised large reaches of space, seized political control of major colony worlds. Created trade routes and built fuelling infrastructure and state of the art space vehicles. 

The closest analogue of a small population making the sort of economic, political, colonisation, technological progression and military achievements within a short timeline is not Norway,  most fitting is the British and how they created their Empire. The English Empire was built, not on the fleets of the RN, but by the fleets of Trading empires. They had ships and raised private armies that could fight in their own right, against other Empires, slavers and pirates. Especially in Asia

Humans are facing hostility on many sides in their race through the galaxy and the consortiums who drove this race would have needed vessels of their own and armies of their own. One of the "forgotten" planets is Anhur, the scene of a human-batarian conflict about slavery. The "abolitionists" won that conflict in 2 years IIRC. That was fought, not by the Alliance, but by a human militia supported by a Merc army, one of them named were the Blue Suns. They originate on Zorya, a non alliance world. 

The dialogue in ME2 states that the Attican Traverse, Terminus and Nemean Abyss are not under Alliance control, neither is Noveria. Planet by Planet WIKI analysis states that the Alliance only have representation or control of a handful of human colonies and the inner  Sol system.  These sort of lore suggest to me that there are large private fleets and armies in MEU humanity that could be far more potent a force than the Alliance themselves.

The GDP figures could be invalid in that these are peacetime economies. Change Alliance to Britain and you have a stat record on the net that shows how a powerful nation changed its spending in the World Wars, that analysis could help generate a codex and economic model for the campaign that is a more fitting analogue than Norway, Switzerland et al.

Zaeed led one of these groups - the Blue Suns. Also, you have a point since there were human merecnaries attacking the Alliance in the Skyllian Blitz, confriming that not every human-based PMC favors the Alliance and that some may actually be antogonistic to them. You get tips of that on Horizon with that mechanic Dillian, who says half the reason people establish Terminus colonies is to get away from the Alliance.

It's like you said - Humans are widespread, but they're hardly a united force, militarily or economocally. They're a fractured state -- independant economies and such.

Yes, but these potential powers are brushed aside and the Alliance and Cerberus overpowered in game. These factions get all the glamour, but if you analyse the lore in detail, other pictures emerge.  Other factions empowered human expansion more than the ones that were gamed.

Since this is a population stat thread. Here was one thing that struck me when analysing human lore. The Collectors abduction rates have 2 stats and a supporting nugget of a timeline. Freedoms Progress and  Horizon colonies. listed in lore around 600.000 and 970,000 repsectively. wiki says that Horizon was processed by the collectors in the "several" hours before Shepard arrived. This was the population of 2 colonies of a Galactic Council Race. There were others. and the total figure collected is millions. What did the Council or Alliance do to prosecute this deadly new force? Of Course Bioware addressed that after ME3 with an anime cartoon to empower James Vega. 

So thinking Shepard is a war criminal for Aratoht. Using these stats as a defence about how much blood is on the Council and Alliance hands in a trial scenario may lead to a real great piece of dialoguing Shepard and also cast Cerebrus in a more positive light.

I'd hardly call Cerberus overpowered. But then again, I don't have access to the Blue Sun's bank accounts to get an accurate ratio on what the avarage human/semi-human PMC makes, so I won't make any assumptions.

Actually, EDI says that the Collector's processing rate was only tens of thousands - that was EDI's estimate of how many  had been processed to make the Human-Reaper during that point of it's development. Although, there could be varying reasons for this -- maybe only the most genetically pure humans could be used to make the Reaper? Maybe not every colonist survived the abuction? Maybe there were more genetic rejects then genetic compatibilities - would explain where all the husks came from. There was that giant pile of bodies in the Collector Ship, so maybe there was a mass-testing phase to determine if humans were good Reaper-fertilizer. There might also be a gene-screaning process to I.D. which humans are "pure" enough to use as Reaper-feed. Rejects get recycled into husks, or maybe even fuel - we never do figure out what powers that organic-looking ship. IDK - just guessing. Those other 600,000+ humans didn't just vanish - they had to have gone somewhere.

I admit, the above doesn't explain the many, many other missing humans. To add to the confusion numbers-wise, the Cerberus News Network states that by 2185, at least seven colonies were taken by the Collectors (Fhel Prime, Freedom's Progress, New Canton, Ferris Fields, Cyrene, Horizon, and at least one other unidentified world). It was all attributed to slavers or pirates, with more being blamed on the geth remnants. How the "tens of thousands" that EDI says make up the Human-Reaper equals out the near-million unaccounted-for humans is beyond me. I haven't killed nearly enough husks to recoup that number.
Now, personally, to try and narrow the numbers down, I don't think Horizon counts, since only one third of it's population was taken, and they all died/were sacrificed to use their ship as bait for Shepard. And all the Fhel Prime colonists died when Vega blew their ship up. However, that doesn't make up for all the other humans the Collectors took - at least 800,000 - 1.2 million people based on the avarage-sized colony (I'm using Freedom's Progress as a base estimate of this, but it's still one colony so I might be off). And that's the minimum number.

And that simpe fact is why the Council and Alliance opted to have a private little trial and sentencing for Shepard -- no muss, no fuss. After all, they control the media -- who is the galaxy going to believe? Their leaders, or a desgraced Cerberus-tied ex-Spectre that may additionally have caused the single biggest (unavoidable) act of genocide since the Morning War? The Council likes their secrets, and they've had two years to spin the "truth" about the Reapers however they wish.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 06:38 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

silverexile17s wrote...

alleyd wrote...

Yes, but these potential powers are brushed aside and the Alliance and Cerberus overpowered in game. These factions get all the glamour, but if you analyse the lore in detail, other pictures emerge.  Other factions empowered human expansion more than the ones that were gamed.

Since this is a population stat thread. Here was one thing that struck me when analysing human lore. The Collectors abduction rates have 2 stats and a supporting nugget of a timeline. Freedoms Progress and  Horizon colonies. listed in lore around 600.000 and 970,000 repsectively. wiki says that Horizon was processed by the collectors in the "several" hours before Shepard arrived. This was the population of 2 colonies of a Galactic Council Race. There were others. and the total figure collected is millions. What did the Council or Alliance do to prosecute this deadly new force? Of Course Bioware addressed that after ME3 with an anime cartoon to empower James Vega. 

So thinking Shepard is a war criminal for Aratoht. Using these stats as a defence about how much blood is on the Council and Alliance hands in a trial scenario may lead to a real great piece of dialoguing Shepard and also cast Cerebrus in a more positive light.

I'd hardly call Cerberus overpowered. But then again, I don't have access to the Blue Sun's bank accounts to get an accurate ratio, so I won't make any assumptions.

Actually, EDI says that the Collector's processing rate was only tens of thousands - that was EDI's estimate of how many  had been processed to make the Human-Reaper during that point of it's development. Although, there could be varying reasons for this -- maybe only the most genetically pure humans could be used to make the Reaper? Maybe not every colonist survived the abuction? Maybe there were more genetic rejects then genetic compatibilities - would explain where all the husks came from. Also, I don't think Horizon counts, since only one third of it's population was taken, and they all died/were sacrificed to use their ship as bait for Shepard.
However, that doesn't make up for all the other humans the Collectors took - to add to the confusion numbers-wise, the Cerberus News Network states that by 2185, at least seven colonies were taken by the Collectors (Fhel Prime, Freedom's Progress, New Canton, Ferris Fields, Cyrene, Horizon, and at least one other unidentified world). It was all attributed to slavers or pirates, with more being blamed on the geth remnants. How the "tens of thousands" that EDI says make up the Human-Reaper equals out the near-million unaccounted-for humans is beyond me. I haven't killed nearly enough husks to recoup that number.

And that simpe fact is why the Council and Alliance opted to have a private little trial and sentencing for Shepard -- no muss, no fuss. After all, they control the media -- who is the galaxy going to believe? Their leaders, or a desgraced Cerberus-tied ex-Spectre that may additionally have caused the single biggest (unavoidable) act of genocide since the Morning War? The Council likes their secrets, and they've had two years to spin the "truth" about the Reapers however they wish.

Right. All those colonies gone. Not a trace of blood. Did the Geth get the bleach out and clean up? Same with the slavers? Hundreds of thousands of people in those colonies just vanished? Did the slavers invent teleportation tech? lol.

Now after Shepard decides to turn him/herself in and show up with a media fest in tow, along with a team of the finest lawyers money can buy? How long do you think they're going to be able to have a private little trial? How about a press conference first showing what happened on Freedom's Progress and Horizon what happened on the other colonies and what the Alliance and the Council had been covering up. They'll deny it, of course, but the survivors on Horizon won't. I don't think the people of Earth would stand for it.

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

alleyd wrote...

Yes, but these potential powers are brushed aside and the Alliance and Cerberus overpowered in game. These factions get all the glamour, but if you analyse the lore in detail, other pictures emerge.  Other factions empowered human expansion more than the ones that were gamed.

Since this is a population stat thread. Here was one thing that struck me when analysing human lore. The Collectors abduction rates have 2 stats and a supporting nugget of a timeline. Freedoms Progress and  Horizon colonies. listed in lore around 600.000 and 970,000 repsectively. wiki says that Horizon was processed by the collectors in the "several" hours before Shepard arrived. This was the population of 2 colonies of a Galactic Council Race. There were others. and the total figure collected is millions. What did the Council or Alliance do to prosecute this deadly new force? Of Course Bioware addressed that after ME3 with an anime cartoon to empower James Vega. 

So thinking Shepard is a war criminal for Aratoht. Using these stats as a defence about how much blood is on the Council and Alliance hands in a trial scenario may lead to a real great piece of dialoguing Shepard and also cast Cerebrus in a more positive light.

I'd hardly call Cerberus overpowered. But then again, I don't have access to the Blue Sun's bank accounts to get an accurate ratio, so I won't make any assumptions.

Actually, EDI says that the Collector's processing rate was only tens of thousands - that was EDI's estimate of how many  had been processed to make the Human-Reaper during that point of it's development. Although, there could be varying reasons for this -- maybe only the most genetically pure humans could be used to make the Reaper? Maybe not every colonist survived the abuction? Maybe there were more genetic rejects then genetic compatibilities - would explain where all the husks came from. Also, I don't think Horizon counts, since only one third of it's population was taken, and they all died/were sacrificed to use their ship as bait for Shepard.
However, that doesn't make up for all the other humans the Collectors took - to add to the confusion numbers-wise, the Cerberus News Network states that by 2185, at least seven colonies were taken by the Collectors (Fhel Prime, Freedom's Progress, New Canton, Ferris Fields, Cyrene, Horizon, and at least one other unidentified world). It was all attributed to slavers or pirates, with more being blamed on the geth remnants. How the "tens of thousands" that EDI says make up the Human-Reaper equals out the near-million unaccounted-for humans is beyond me. I haven't killed nearly enough husks to recoup that number.

And that simpe fact is why the Council and Alliance opted to have a private little trial and sentencing for Shepard -- no muss, no fuss. After all, they control the media -- who is the galaxy going to believe? Their leaders, or a desgraced Cerberus-tied ex-Spectre that may additionally have caused the single biggest (unavoidable) act of genocide since the Morning War? The Council likes their secrets, and they've had two years to spin the "truth" about the Reapers however they wish.

Right. All those colonies gone. Not a trace of blood. Did the Geth get the bleach out and clean up? Same with the slavers? Hundreds of thousands of people in those colonies just vanished? Did the slavers invent teleportation tech? lol.

Now after Shepard decides to turn him/herself in and show up with a media fest in tow, along with a team of the finest lawyers money can buy? How long do you think they're going to be able to have a private little trial? How about a press conference first showing what happened on Freedom's Progress and Horizon what happened on the other colonies and what the Alliance and the Council had been covering up. They'll deny it, of course, but the survivors on Horizon won't. I don't think the people of Earth would stand for it.

IDK -- even if you count the deaths of all the Horizon and Fhel Prime colonists, that still leaves 800,000 - 1.2 million at minimum, and about 2.8 million at maximum. Even with the husks made from the runoff, and the abandoned rejects that didn't pass whatever "purity test" the Collectors had, it still doesn't even account for even half the humans the Collectors could have taken. What the hell did they do with them all? Eat them?

And it's the Citadel Council -- they've got dirt on everybody. The entire Alliance Admiralty Board (you know, the three dumbasses who get fried in the opening scene of ME3) backslid on the Reapers to save face with the Council and the g*ddamn politicians. And the last press conference about Freedom's Progress and Horizon, taken prior to the Suicide Missiom, were censored to death. And given that Shepard's been dead for two years and the first thing he/she did was join Cerberus, the number of people that wouldn't stand for it are suprisingly few -- after all, the Council and Alliance have had two years to twist the truth and cover up the Reapers. And with Shepard being alive still relitively new news, they can twist it eight ways to sunday before any real account can be made. And how many of the Horizon survivors will be "diagnosed with PTSD," or be listed off as being "traumatized" like that dock-worker who winessed Saren murder Nhilus.

I don't mean to be rude, but most of the galaxy is stupid by now-- mainly because they've lived under the iron, free-will rotting grasp of a politic-dominated leadership for, what, 2,000 years? You saw how steeped in political BS and red-tape the Saren investigation was -- that's why Garrus did the rational thing: he quit talking with his mouth and starting talking with his G*ddamn rifle. You tend to need people like Garrus in times like this -- people who say "f*ck the rules, just get it done." Granted, I don't necessarily agree with the concept (I fear anarchy), but I can understand the burning need for people that do, if only to get the ball rolling.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 10 novembre 2013 - 07:05 .

[Erez Kristal]

alleyd wrote...


The GDP figures could be invalid in that these are peacetime economies. Change Alliance to Britain and you have a stat record on the net that shows how a powerful nation changed its spending in the World Wars, that analysis could help generate a codex and economic model for the campaign that is a more fitting analogue than Norway, Switzerland et al.

you are right that Britain of the 16-18 centuries was more suiting as an example for the humans of 2185. it is hard to measure the economical strength of Britain in numbers-gdp. Norway is a simple example of how a country can have a much higher gdp per person than other western and developed countries due to an abundance of natural resources, educated population, developed industry and most important of all  and a very small population. Norway total economy is still much smaller than many other countries.

In order to make the political and military power presented for the human race in mass effect and also to support the population numbers published by bioware(trillions for dozens of races) it was essential to make the humans who have one of the smallest populations in the galaxy. stronger economically. this also stand in line with Ashland, sitra foundation. Hanne kedar.

About the merc group. while merc groups make for a sustainable force in the galaxy. the system alliance also play a similar part. a large portion of the alliance income arrives from the corporations outside earth. the alliance play the role of a large merc army many times for those corporations. Zulu once made a thread and painted the alliance as mercs for the corporations. in some way. he was spot on.

It is not uncommon for military personal to secure assets such as oil or gas under government orders in return for pay. sometimes these roles are even regulated into the law.
 


It would be very interesting to see that gdp numbers of the great british empire in comparison to today numbers.  
Here is an interesting article on the relations between the British empire military and its corporations-merchants. http://allempires.co..._navy_1649-1815 

Modifié par erezike, 10 novembre 2013 - 12:16 .