204 réponses à ce sujet

[The Last]

torudoom wrote...

OniGanon et al. are correct here. Consumables help, and are easy to keep stocked. There's no good rational justification for not using at least a couple of level ones in Gold+. And there are good reasons for using them.

It's simple etiquette, among other things. It is a signal, even if imperfect, that you're willing to put in a level of effort and stake into the mission, and it encourages others to do so. We can't make a perfect judgement of other players based on anything we see in lobby, but at least consumables, on the whole, show a certain dedication to effort. And I know a in a few instances, I've dropped into lobbies with no one using consumables, put something on, and had other people join in. The matches were that much more fun because of it.

It helps the mission go quite a bit faster and smoother if you equip at least something, and can help you get out of bad situations which might otherwise lead to a failure - a decent bonus for a very minor marginal cost. (I'd be willing to guess that if players are using equipment, their total mission time and failure rate actually goes down by a margin sufficient to recoup any supposed losses from 'wasting money' on packs.) I suppose we'll have to take you at your word that you can rule the scoreboards consistently without consumables, even if that's not what I've seen from good players over the year I've played, but confusing scoreboard dominance for doing something well is not really the same thing.

It also opens up new options for designing a kit/weapon combination, such as allowing you to bypass one weapon mod slot for a consumable that can fill a similar enough niche. Using consumables can make for some interesting niche builds that you might otherwise never get to try - like Cryo ammo HSoldier, for instance.

That said, it's your choice. If you like the game better that way, go nuts, but don't expect too many people to congratulate you or stay in your lobby.

Best post ive seen since the flamebait, so i will try and make a sound reply,

In a way, the justification is...they dont mind doing their normal damage, its not gimping themselves if they are comfortable with the damage they deal, but there is no justification really for becoming obsessed with other people putting them on and just playing the game, they do them, you do you.

Etiquitte for randoms?  In a Pick up group? Whom you don't know how they are going to play, or if they are even committed? You have just as much risk with a dude who slaps every consumable on compared to one who doesnt to show any dedication for the match. Better off looking at the weapon level as well as it syncing with the class kit in question(for example a  heavyweight weapon on an adept), either that or actually play with them ingame.

Ive equally seen as many consumable wearers die and leave as ive seen non consumable wearers actually finish through the match burning through as many missles and gels as it took to complete. Consumables doesnt show dedication and effort, it is just a false speculation. That person could just as easily say "hey, i'll pop in a consumable to get in this lobby since they think im auto committed and let this guy/gal carry me". Wont matter if they waste a consumable a match getting carried at that point because "they have plenty to spare".

A fast mission can be even faster with consumables, which is agreed. I won't mind slapping all my consumables on all the next matches if everyone shows they want to win in the first one. The first match is what I look at. I'm not slapping them on to make a slow run less slow, but STILL be slow from all the wave clutching. You can slap on all the consumables you want to in a match, but they won't work if you are dead. The last one alive can slap on all the consumables they want, but it isnt going to turn a slow run fast if they are stuck clutching all the waves. Take me at my word or not, i dont care about the scoreboards, in fact we can just not talk about it at all. You are confusing consumables, with doing something well, which is not always the case. in pugs.

Your point of the combinations is very sound, but that is dependant upon playstyle, and we all know everyone have different playstyles, as well as people have different comfort levels when it comes to how much equipment they need before a match.

Personally i DO USE consumables, i just don't use them as often as the next guy, i personally agree with both sides of the arguement, however opinionated they may be. As i see it, talking from the no consumables perspective, if you like the game better with consumables, have at it, but don't expect too many people to congratulate you or assume you are good because you have them.

[The Last]

Simba501 wrote...

Consumables make a difference. I have actual data.  

It's funny that you scored 15-20k less than FoP each game, OP.  That's actually right around the number that I'm discovering consumables add to score.

Yes i did say that, taking a look at his weapon tho, he had a venom VIII while i had the acolyte X and hurricane I in the first game.

The game was basically me and him running around the match blowing sht up with the occasional spawn nuke with missles back and forth, he ended up reaching most of the spawns before i did, and that venom is deadly with those explosions for spawn nuking, half the time i couldnt even set up BE's cuz he killed them so fast  or killed them before i made it to the enemies lol.

second match basically same thing on fb white, he used GI  with a shotgun(dont remember which one but i think the Claymore X), i used drell infil, nuking spawns w/e same old, idk what happened but on wave 11, i lagged and i think his and my screen both froze and we died, luckily someone made it to the extraction.

third match was on reactor i went back to my adept and slapped on every consumable in every slot, and he went to his..dont remember, but in that match i ended up lagging badly and ps3 froze mid match against the collectors, so i had to reset it (collectors freezes my game randomly for some reason).

Those were the 3 of our games, altho i believe it was more of his combination of high lvl weapons/class/skill than the consumables though, all 3 games i had the hurricane I, if it was higher my score woulda been more likely closer to his.

Modifié par Dolun, 28 octobre 2013 - 06:29 .

[Creator Limbs]

COLLECTORS FREEZE YOUR GAME BECAUSE OF MEMORY LEAK NOW STOP BLAMING YOUR "INFERIOR" WEAPONS AND ACCEPT THAT YOU'RE WRONG.

Modifié par prostheticlimbs, 28 octobre 2013 - 06:46 .

[DisturbedPsic0]

Eh, I'm with the majority on this one. If people come into my lobby I get on the mic and ask them to put some equipment on, at least ammo. If you can't spare at least level 1 ammo it's basically telling me that our game isn't worth you reaching into your money pile of level 1 equipment. Maybe you want to hear that you're special, and you're one of the few who can do well without equipment (I don't mean that as rude as it sounds). Unfortunately I don't assume every player is good and can do that. Based on my experience I assume the exact opposite.

The vast majority who don't put on equipment stink. Around half that do put equipment on still stink. But I appreciate the extra effort and that extra damage does help those who need it. I understand not wanting to use all your level 3 and 4 equipment, but come on. Level 1 and 2's are nothing and most people have tons of them. What are you saving them for?

I'll get on the mic and ask nicely for someone to put equipment on. Half the time they leave right away because they don't want to bother. Works out fine for me. Keep in mind that's how the majority of the player base acts. If you're a diamond in the rough the best bet you have is hooking your mic up and talking because people will judge you based on that unless you give them a reason to judge you based on something else.

Modifié par DisturbedPsic0, 28 octobre 2013 - 07:06 .

[codsquallic]

There's no excuse to not use Cyro Ammo IV. Seriously, why slow down a game, and who cares about the scoreboard.

[NuclearTech76]

Let me be a little more elaborate and less condescending since the OP seems to be decent but misguided on this topic. Consumables to me make the whole team better even at level one here's why.

AP ammo at even level 1 kills against all defense types 10% faster without considering in armor mitigation or potential double or triple hits against elites and some sub elites.

Warp ammo potentially improves the whole teams damage against armor, does a crap ton of damage against enemy barriers, and against any primed defense outside shields does a ton of damage.

Incendiary and disruptor proc for decent 1+6 tech burst and FEs.

In the end it's less about your score and more about clearance time and your teammates not having an opportunity to get dead.

[DHKany]

Join my lobby with no consumables?

Ain't getting no revives from me.

[OniGanon]

Loadout isn't that great an indicator on its own either. I know I've had people think I was stupid because I had a Claymore on my Fury. I know I've raised some eyebrows by taking the Krysae on my SI. Once I was accused of cheating while using the Mantis on a GE ("how can he oneshot everything with a Mantis?!"). People have laughed at me taking the Incisor on a Turian Sentinel. And I've had some amusing comments when people realise I'm using a Revenant to snipe across the map with my TGI.

The point is: some people like using quirky guns because using a Harrier or Reegar on everything gets boring real fast. And the best way to know someone like that means business and isn't just a Bronze noob with nothing better than an Uncommon X? A full load of consumables.

No one single thing on its own is going to tell you if a teammate is reliable in the lobby. Best way to guess is a combination of N7 (must be >=120), CP (a few thousand at least), banner, Gear, consumables, weapon choice/rarity/level, and weapon mods (both slots filled? Do they make sense?).

And even then, people with all the right signs can still disappoint. There are no guarantees in the lobby. No pleasant ones anyway. A Locust II on a weapon-dependant class is almost a guarantee of suck.

You're not blowing anyone's mind with the revelation that you don't need consumables to be a good player, or that someone using consumables is not necessarily a good player. Everyone knows this. But good players generally always use consumables (unless they're refraining because of a self imposed challenge or something), because there's no practical reason not to do so. It's like leaving a gun mod slot empty. It's like having power points unspent on a Lv20 character. The only reason to do it is so you can brag about it later and wave your epeen in people's faces.

Conversely, those who don't use consumables are almost invariably bad (or rather, playing in a difficulty above their current skill level). That you might be part of the mystical 0.001% or so that aren't is not going to change my prejudice built from hundreds of hours in a thousand Gold PUGs.

I acknowledge that it's theoretically possible for a player not using consumables to be really good. I also acknowledge that it's possible there's an invisible pink unicorn in my room. I'm more inclined to believe I'll encounter the latter before the former.

Modifié par OniGanon, 28 octobre 2013 - 07:37 .

[chcknwng]

Dolun wrote...

Simba501 wrote...

Consumables make a difference. I have actual data.  

It's funny that you scored 15-20k less than FoP each game, OP.  That's actually right around the number that I'm discovering consumables add to score.

Yes i did say that, taking a look at his weapon tho, he had a venom VIII while i had the acolyte X and hurricane I in the first game.

The game was basically me and him running around the match blowing sht up with the occasional spawn nuke with missles back and forth, he ended up reaching most of the spawns before i did, and that venom is deadly with those explosions for spawn nuking, half the time i couldnt even set up BE's cuz he killed them so fast  or killed them before i made it to the enemies lol.

second match basically same thing on fb white, he used GI  with a shotgun(dont remember which one but i think the Claymore X), i used drell infil, nuking spawns w/e same old, idk what happened but on wave 11, i lagged and i think his and my screen both froze and we died, luckily someone made it to the extraction.

third match was on reactor i went back to my adept and slapped on every consumable in every slot, and he went to his..dont remember, but in that match i ended up lagging badly and ps3 froze mid match against the collectors, so i had to reset it (collectors freezes my game randomly for some reason).

Those were the 3 of our games, altho i believe it was more of his combination of high lvl weapons/class/skill than the consumables though, all 3 games i had the hurricane I, if it was higher my score woulda been more likely closer to his.

From level 1 to X the damage of Hurricane increases for about 15%. A SMG Rail Amp 3 gives 30% moar weapon dmg, which effectively brings you over the DMG of Hurricane X unmodded. So next time you think the only reason other players kill faster is they have better URs, use your consumables to narrow that gap.

Also op you claim that most "good" players on ps3 don't need/use consumables. I am super confused. Because all the good players I played with always use consumables. They might save their lvl 4 cyclonics for soloing, but you can solidly expect Adrenaline 2/cyclonic 2 for Gold. For myself, I'm just not that good to play naked. 

Modifié par wngmv, 28 octobre 2013 - 07:51 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Among all the people I play with across my PS3 and Xbox accounts, not a single one of the good players readies up without equipment on.

Bad ones do it all the time, though.

[Simba501]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Among all the people I play with across my PS3 and Xbox accounts, not a single one of the good players readies up without equipment on.

Bad ones do it all the time, though.

This post reflects my experiences exactly.

[The Last]

DHKany wrote...

Join my lobby with no consumables?

Ain't getting no revives from me.

No insult intended, but thats you being more of an ass ingame with a chip on your shoulder. Especially when that said player could have every intent on reviving you if you went down

While the people who don't use them as often, are more keen to not care what loadout people use as long as it works. 

Looking at this comment, the people who dont trust people unless they use consumables have more of a chip on their shoulder before games even happen, and are more likely to let that hate affect how they play the match.

For example, Person A hates Person B because they decided not to equip anything but the permanent gear mod before the match...lets say, Grenade Capacity V, as an idea of what i mean by permanent gear.

now, when the match begins, Person A already has the mindset "im not gonna revive him or help him in any way if he dies", while person b has the mindset " Lets do this guys!"

So while the matches go on and person B gets sniped by a phantom or a ravager, cuz sometimes we all dont see them coming which is a harmless mistake, so died quicker than we can respond. If he died right next to you, you wouldn't revive him?

While in the same scenario the other guy would have went through hell and back to revive you no hesitation or rage, and you all got down to your business.

in the Scenario where the person A won't res person b out of hate, person b then gets the message and decides not to revive person A, both ends up wasting all their medigels overtime due to dying and not helping each other out, but person A initiated the standoff.

While i understand where you guys are coming from, person A actually turns out to be less of a team player than person B in that aspect, as well as person A's attitude is less healthy for the team as a whole.

[OniGanon]

...All of which can be avoided if person B just put on some bloody equipment. If they were so team oriented, then they would do it if for no other reason than to avoid this exact scenario.

[The Last]

So far all i am told is, unless you put on what i wan't, I will be less of a team player to you. That is cutting into childish behavior.

As i say over and over, i put on my consumables from time to time, i don't do it all the time, but i do occasionally, At the moment, the people's attitudes towards people that don't use consumables is more childish.

While the people who don't use them care less about what people puts on in the temp slot and less hostile, hell most aren't even posting on the forums and actually playing the game.

Modifié par Dolun, 28 octobre 2013 - 08:23 .

[ClydeInTheShell]

wngmv wrote...

For myself, I'm just not that good to play naked. 

I thought you always played naked?

On topic, what everyone else already said. Gold, okay fine, you only want to bring gear, fine. I don't care because we'll get through the game regardless, especially since you're gonna top the scoreboard.

Platinum? Everyone gets gear & consumables on, or else I'm leaving. The only time anything different is acceptable is if I'm pugging, and this is pretty much a given that at least one random will only have gear; or if I'm playing with friends, in which case we all wear consumables so it's moot. If I'm pugging I'll bring a kit I'm strong with and my best stuff so we have a better chance.

[chcknwng]

I don't give a crap if you use cinsumebles or not. But yes, if you don't use cinsumebles, go down and don't use medigel tovfet yourself up, you are on your own.

Also, why should I believe you would use gel/ops packs/missiles when needed, if you can't even be bothered to put on Explosive Ammo 1? Just because they *MIGHT* be a team player? I failed to see the logic in that.

[Creator Limbs]

My manager frowns upon me setting up a gaming console and playing it while I'm at work.

[chcknwng]

ClydeInTheShell wrote...

wngmv wrote...

For myself, I'm just not that good to play naked. 

I thought you always played naked?

On topic, what everyone else already said. Gold, okay fine, you only want to bring gear, fine. I don't care because we'll get through the game regardless, especially since you're gonna top the scoreboard.

Platinum? Everyone gets gear & consumables on, or else I'm leaving. The only time anything different is acceptable is if I'm pugging, and this is pretty much a given that at least one random will only have gear; or if I'm playing with friends, in which case we all wear consumables so it's moot. If I'm pugging I'll bring a kit I'm strong with and my best stuff so we have a better chance.

Nope. I always wear protections. Especially when it comes to the fact that I'll be doubled/triple scored if I ran naked.

[Sket]

Dolun wrote...

So far all i am told is, unless you put on what i wan't, I will be less of a team player to you. That is cutting into childish behavior.

As i say over and over, i put on my consumables from time to time, i don't do it all the time, but i do occasionally, At the moment, the people's attitudes towards people that don't use consumables is more childish.

While the people who don't use them care less about what people puts on in the temp slot and less hostile, hell most aren't even posting on the forums and actually playing the game.

None of us really need consumables to be effective in this game, but I can't sell them so I use them always even though the majority of my games nowadays end up near unplayable or disconnected. And if we're talking about team players, surely the person with a full set of consumables on is more of a team player in principle, as they are fully invested in reaching extraction, which helps the whole team. You seem to have your point of view which cannot be changed, that's cool, play how you want. If I ready up for a game I'm making sure I extract and that whoever else is on the team has a good chance of extracting too, consumables on or not.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

My manager frowns upon me setting up a gaming console and playing it while I'm at work.

Hook it into the closed circuit with a flicker switch. Every time he comes in, change to the CCTV. Once he's gone, hope that he didn't notice you furiously pressing the X button to give your teammate time to revive you while you couldn't play. 

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

How come I never run into any of these scoreboard topping, non-equipment using, players?

[OniGanon]

Dolun wrote...
While the people who don't use them care less about what people puts on in the temp slot and less hostile, hell most aren't even posting on the forums and actually playing the game.

You. Just you.

Stop saying 'the people.'

You aren't speaking for a majority.

You're not even speaking about a significant minority.

You are speaking for you, and only you.

The majority, the overwhelming majority- to the point that finding an exception is like finding a mermaid in a goddamn desert-  who do not use consumables turn out to be inexperienced/poor players. Judging based on this fact is not childish, it's prudent.

And y'know, I really wish I could say I am sorry that you might be judged wrongly based on this. But I am not. It's only your own laziness and/or apathy that keeps you lumped with that group. Less than 10 seconds of effort gets you out of it.

Just put on the equipment. Always.

Modifié par OniGanon, 28 octobre 2013 - 08:52 .

[Salarian Jesus]

b00g13man wrote...

How come I never run into any of these scoreboard topping, non-equipment using, players?

[Striker93175]

Dolun wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Join my lobby with no consumables?

Ain't getting no revives from me.

No insult intended, but thats you being more of an ass ingame with a chip on your shoulder. Especially when that said player could have every intent on reviving you if you went down

While the people who don't use them as often, are more keen to not care what loadout people use as long as it works. 

Looking at this comment, the people who dont trust people unless they use consumables have more of a chip on their shoulder before games even happen, and are more likely to let that hate affect how they play the match.

For example, Person A hates Person B because they decided not to equip anything but the permanent gear mod before the match...lets say, Grenade Capacity V, as an idea of what i mean by permanent gear.

now, when the match begins, Person A already has the mindset "im not gonna revive him or help him in any way if he dies", while person b has the mindset " Lets do this guys!"

So while the matches go on and person B gets sniped by a phantom or a ravager, cuz sometimes we all dont see them coming which is a harmless mistake, so died quicker than we can respond. If he died right next to you, you wouldn't revive him?

While in the same scenario the other guy would have went through hell and back to revive you no hesitation or rage, and you all got down to your business.

in the Scenario where the person A won't res person b out of hate, person b then gets the message and decides not to revive person A, both ends up wasting all their medigels overtime due to dying and not helping each other out, but person A initiated the standoff.

While i understand where you guys are coming from, person A actually turns out to be less of a team player than person B in that aspect, as well as person A's attitude is less healthy for the team as a whole.

Puggin player C here, and I just watched all this transpire.  I have now clutched 2 waves, decided that both of you are  and now have to clutch... that is until 1 enemy left and then:

1) Do nothing but stick in cover and kite the last enemy around the map before finally popping out for as long as I care to before finally allowing it to kill me and fail the mission.

2) Same as above, but instead of dying just leave the game to fail mission

It's nice to not need the credits or care about losing equipment because you have a nice stockpile.  No free pass.  I'm willing to lose the equip and gain 0 credits should you not be willing to even equip level 1 stuff to help out.

[The Last]

Sketfish wrote...

Dolun wrote...

So far all i am told is, unless you put on what i wan't, I will be less of a team player to you. That is cutting into childish behavior.

As i say over and over, i put on my consumables from time to time, i don't do it all the time, but i do occasionally, At the moment, the people's attitudes towards people that don't use consumables is more childish.

While the people who don't use them care less about what people puts on in the temp slot and less hostile, hell most aren't even posting on the forums and actually playing the game.

None of us really need consumables to be effective in this game, but I can't sell them so I use them always even though the majority of my games nowadays end up near unplayable or disconnected. And if we're talking about team players, surely the person with a full set of consumables on is more of a team player in principle, as they are fully invested in reaching extraction, which helps the whole team. You seem to have your point of view which cannot be changed, that's cool, play how you want. If I ready up for a game I'm making sure I extract and that whoever else is on the team has a good chance of extracting too, consumables on or not.

Yeah i mean, im not criticizing anyone for their opinions against non consumable users, im just wondering like...you say that no one needs consumables to be effectivein this game, yet people who don't put them on are criticized. If they don't need them then why the hate? Not that i experience this ingame, since most ingame people are quite the opposite and don't care either way.

I just wonder sometimes if the people talking still play with pugs, or play with the BSN "elite" they meet on forums, i'd personally have no problem popping every consumable i have into the matches no matter who is playing as long as i know they want to get it done.