211 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

ziloe wrote...

I believe David Gaider wrote a really nice article on Morrigan awhile back. I'll see if I can dig it up, unless someone else fings it before I do, which would be great.

To be honest DG have huge impact on da story and universe but DG can also say that morrigan is sweet lovely girl but that isn't truth they could have concept morrigan as pragmatic girl but they failed in reality making her stupid evil character.
So devs can tell me that abomnations are rare (whether or not they claim that that isn't point) but if i meet abomnation on abomnation in every alley they aren't and it becomes clear that devs don't have entirely control over character or story if they tell us something and story shows otherwise.  

[Boiny Bunny]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Why is it that most people who say Morrigan is evil have broken grammar and express questionable extremities. It seems as though they are the ones invokng hate, or something.  

But she is evil nothing more nothing less take her from our party and peoples will say that she is one of the baddies.Well anyway her attitude is here well described.

http://www.escapistm...pproval-Ratings

Your link gave me a good laugh.  It's been ages since I've played through DA:O, so I don't recall every conversation you could ever have with Morrigan clearly - but overall, I got the 'survival of the fittest' vibe off her with almost no exceptions [noting that sometimes this was applied as 'do something evil if it will help us fight the Blight].  Would be very interested to hear of the scenario where she proposes to kill everything for no reason at all.

Ultimately I think she was basically just opposed to involving yourself in any situation if there was nothing to gain from it.  She wouldn't support giving money to a starving child any more than she would cutting the child's head off for no reason.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Why is it that most people who say Morrigan is evil have broken grammar and express questionable extremities. It seems as though they are the ones invokng hate, or something.  

But she is evil nothing more nothing less take her from our party and peoples will say that she is one of the baddies.Well anyway her attitude is here well described.

http://www.escapistm...pproval-Ratings

Your link gave me a good laugh.  It's been ages since I've played through DA:O, so I don't recall every conversation you could ever have with Morrigan clearly - but overall, I got the 'survival of the fittest' vibe off her with almost no exceptions [noting that sometimes this was applied as 'do something evil if it will help us fight the Blight].  Would be very interested to hear of the scenario where she proposes to kill everything for no reason at all.

Ultimately I think she was basically just opposed to involving yourself in any situation if there was nothing to gain from it.  She wouldn't support giving money to a starving child any more than she would cutting the child's head off for no reason.

As i said that isn't at case because she support choices that make others life miserable above choice what is beneficial as example we have merchant in lothering we have crowd who offers nothing and merchant who offers money ok if you are practical you will take money and tell crowd to get lost but then merchant want give us money but then we have option to kill him just because then we gain her approval and lost money from merchant.

But also often helping others is beneficial and we will get something for that but morrigan is angry because we dear help others for sake benefit quick or for long-term goal and that was in case mages in tower or even redcliff.

 

[ziloe]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Why is it that most people who say Morrigan is evil have broken grammar and express questionable extremities. It seems as though they are the ones invokng hate, or something.  

But she is evil nothing more nothing less take her from our party and peoples will say that she is one of the baddies.Well anyway her attitude is here well described.

http://www.escapistm...pproval-Ratings

Your link gave me a good laugh.  It's been ages since I've played through DA:O, so I don't recall every conversation you could ever have with Morrigan clearly - but overall, I got the 'survival of the fittest' vibe off her with almost no exceptions [noting that sometimes this was applied as 'do something evil if it will help us fight the Blight].  Would be very interested to hear of the scenario where she proposes to kill everything for no reason at all.

Ultimately I think she was basically just opposed to involving yourself in any situation if there was nothing to gain from it.  She wouldn't support giving money to a starving child any more than she would cutting the child's head off for no reason.

As i said that isn't at case because she support choices that make others life miserable above choice what is beneficial as example we have merchant in lothering we have crowd who offers nothing and merchant who offers money ok if you are practical you will take money and tell crowd to get lost but then merchant want give us money but then we have option to kill him just because then we gain her approval and lost money from merchant.

But also often helping others is beneficial and we will get something for that but morrigan is angry because we dear help others for sake benefit quick or for long-term goal and that was in case mages in tower or even redcliff.

 

It sounds like no matter what people say or offer, it won't matter because you already believe your idea of good and evil to be true. So, not much I can really add that I haven't already said.

[TheKomandorShepard]

ziloe wrote...

It sounds like no matter what people say or offer, it won't matter because you already believe your idea of good and evil to be true. So, not much I can really add that I haven't already said.

It doesn't matter what i belive morrigan actions paints her as simplest kind of villain when it comes about morality eat puppies and set villagers even when it is harming choice here have http://tvtropes.org/...ain/StupidEvil 


Ps did you found link to page where DG speaks about morrigan i would like to read it if not well maybe someone could. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 01 novembre 2013 - 06:19 .

[ziloe]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ziloe wrote...

It sounds like no matter what people say or offer, it won't matter because you already believe your idea of good and evil to be true. So, not much I can really add that I haven't already said.

It doesn't matter what i belive morrigan actions paints her as simplest kind of villain when it comes about morality eat puppies and set villagers even when it is harming choice here have http://tvtropes.org/...ain/StupidEvil 


Ps did you found link to page where DG speaks about morrigan i would like to read it if not well maybe someone could. 

I'll look for it sometime tomorrow. Haven't had a very great night, probably going to bed now. 

[ziloe]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ziloe wrote...

It sounds like no matter what people say or offer, it won't matter because you already believe your idea of good and evil to be true. So, not much I can really add that I haven't already said.

It doesn't matter what i belive morrigan actions paints her as simplest kind of villain when it comes about morality eat puppies and set villagers even when it is harming choice here have http://tvtropes.org/...ain/StupidEvil 


Ps did you found link to page where DG speaks about morrigan i would like to read it if not well maybe someone could. 

I know there's another article somewhere that I read, but this should do for now: killscreendaily.com/articles/interview-david-gaider/

[TheKomandorShepard]

ziloe wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ziloe wrote...

It sounds like no matter what people say or offer, it won't matter because you already believe your idea of good and evil to be true. So, not much I can really add that I haven't already said.

It doesn't matter what i belive morrigan actions paints her as simplest kind of villain when it comes about morality eat puppies and set villagers even when it is harming choice here have http://tvtropes.org/...ain/StupidEvil 


Ps did you found link to page where DG speaks about morrigan i would like to read it if not well maybe someone could. 

I know there's another article somewhere that I read, but this should do for now: killscreendaily.com/articles/interview-david-gaider/

Thanks for link if you find to another i would be grateful for link.

Now about text it is nowhere stated that morrigan isn't such person as i described and they made her probably judging by text not intentionally.DG says that some players can think about her as cold bi*** or something more but in game they failed doing that but judging by you some maybe get caught on that trap but everything what she did and said says otherwise and i think that devs know they failed in doing that because now they stated they want show more humane side of morrigan but in first game they failed in doing that only character she showed empathy is pc and it is still if she was acting or honest.

[Schneidend]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

As i said that isn't at case because she support choices that make others life miserable above choice what is beneficial as example we have merchant in lothering we have crowd who offers nothing and merchant who offers money ok if you are practical you will take money and tell crowd to get lost but then merchant want give us money but then we have option to kill him just because then we gain her approval and lost money from merchant.

But also often helping others is beneficial and we will get something for that but morrigan is angry because we dear help others for sake benefit quick or for long-term goal and that was in case mages in tower or even redcliff.

Morrigan approves of the slaying because the merchant's a little toad. She finds his dealings acceptable, but doesn't think of him as anything more than an opportunistic weakling.
Keep in mind, Sten also approves of killing the merchant.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Schneidend wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

As i said that isn't at case because she support choices that make others life miserable above choice what is beneficial as example we have merchant in lothering we have crowd who offers nothing and merchant who offers money ok if you are practical you will take money and tell crowd to get lost but then merchant want give us money but then we have option to kill him just because then we gain her approval and lost money from merchant.

But also often helping others is beneficial and we will get something for that but morrigan is angry because we dear help others for sake benefit quick or for long-term goal and that was in case mages in tower or even redcliff.

Morrigan approves of the slaying because the merchant's a little toad. She finds his dealings acceptable, but doesn't think of him as anything more than an opportunistic weakling.
Keep in mind, Sten also approves of killing the merchant.

Eee we gain her approval for helping him in being di*** and she is amused because we kicked mob and then you suggesting than she started care about mob and despise merchant for actions she was supporting and i thought that leliana is crazy. 

[Schneidend]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Eee we gain her approval for helping him in being di*** and she is amused because we kicked mob and then you suggesting than she started care about mob and despise merchant for actions she was supporting and i thought that leliana is crazy. 

No, as I said, she is fine with the merchant's actions, but doesn't care for the man himself. She thinks anybody with the merchant's goods would be well within their rights to sell them for high profits, but she is not impressed by the merchant himself. He's a weakling playing at being a bigshot, so killing him would be amusing, but ultimately not detrimental to the Warden's cause.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Schneidend wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Eee we gain her approval for helping him in being di*** and she is amused because we kicked mob and then you suggesting than she started care about mob and despise merchant for actions she was supporting and i thought that leliana is crazy. 

No, as I said, she is fine with the merchant's actions, but doesn't care for the man himself. She thinks anybody with the merchant's goods would be well within their rights to sell them for high profits, but she is not impressed by the merchant himself. He's a weakling playing at being a bigshot, so killing him would be amusing, but ultimately not detrimental to the Warden's cause.

Which pretty much confirms what i said and that she is stupid evil and thats just small example she is fine with telling mob to get lost for money okey we take money and we are glad thats what sane "evil" person will do and killing him is meaningless and cost warden payment yet she supports that option what isn't pragmatic only stupid evil and harming option.

[ziloe]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Eee we gain her approval for helping him in being di*** and she is amused because we kicked mob and then you suggesting than she started care about mob and despise merchant for actions she was supporting and i thought that leliana is crazy. 

No, as I said, she is fine with the merchant's actions, but doesn't care for the man himself. She thinks anybody with the merchant's goods would be well within their rights to sell them for high profits, but she is not impressed by the merchant himself. He's a weakling playing at being a bigshot, so killing him would be amusing, but ultimately not detrimental to the Warden's cause.

Which pretty much confirms what i said and that she is stupid evil and thats just small example she is fine with telling mob to get lost for money okey we take money and we are glad thats what sane "evil" person will do and killing him is meaningless and cost warden payment yet she supports that option what isn't pragmatic only stupid evil and harming option.

Again. That's not "evil". And to further the point, good and evil is subjective. Maybe if you played the game through a different perspective, you might actually like Morrigan.

[Tattia]

I will try to stay as neutral as possible. If I run into a group of healing mages, I would help/save them. if I run into a group of blood mages, I will wipe them out. If I run into templars like Cullen, I would help/side with them. if I run into a group of templars/seekers like Lambert, I will stick my sword through their faces. Both side sides have good and bad.
I think once a mage has passed their harrowing, they should be allowed to leave the Circle when they want. I believe they should still live there but they should be able to come and go as they wish. They have phylacteries...not like they can't be found.

[TK514]

Show compassion towards someone or something that isn't Morrigan: Morrigan disapproves -20
Show even the slightest doubt in Morrigan's directives: Morrigan disapproves -12
Act like a total ****** towards anyone that isn't Morrigan: Morrigan approves +5
Do something nice for Morrigan: Morrigan approves +20

So she's basically a sadistic ten year old. "Pragmatism" (aka being a ******) is great as long as you aren't applying it to her, because then it's terrible.

as for the OP, I tried to be neutral in DA 2.  Walking away was my preferred choice.  

I'd love it if DA:I restored that choice as a viable one.  It'd be nice to find a third group of Mages and Templars willing to work together and solve the global problem instead of following the elvish path and letting the world burn down rather than compromise.

then I could let the idiots exemplified in Fiona and Lambert wipe each other out.

Modifié par TK514, 02 novembre 2013 - 04:01 .

[wolfhowwl]

TK514 wrote...

Show compassion towards someone or something that isn't Morrigan: Morrigan disapproves -20
Show even the slightest doubt in Morrigan's directives: Morrigan disapproves -12
Act like a total ****** towards anyone that isn't Morrigan: Morrigan approves +5
Do something nice for Morrigan: Morrigan approves +20

So she's basically a sadistic ten year old. "Pragmatism" (aka being a ******) is great as long as you aren't applying it to her, because then it's terrible.

Isn't she a teenager in Origins? Her immaturity would make sense.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 02 novembre 2013 - 03:55 .

[LOLandStuff]

I blame growing up in the middle of a swamp for the way she acts.

[HiroVoid]

LOLandStuff wrote...

I blame growing up in the middle of a swamp for the way she acts.

You're actually right about that.  It's also why she's pretty bad at interacting with people too.  As far as world experience as a whole goes, she's probably the least knowledgable though she obviously grew up in a unique world experience.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

You want... grey matter??

Is it not enough we have blood splatter everywhere?

Kids these days...

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 02 novembre 2013 - 05:41 .

[Pawlem]

LOLandStuff wrote...

I blame growing up in the middle of a swamp for the way she acts.

Yeah, that's all there really is to say about the matter and that does not make her evil.

It's not like she had any choice in the matter. Simply calling her evil because she was domesticated differently and so has different beliefs is not reason enough for me to dislike her. Really, only on my 'evil' playthroughs would my warden dislike her; only then would I take someone thinking differently than me personally. 

What makes her an interesting character is what she does with her freedom now. You see her more accepting  through your relationship with her, and she apparently decides to do who-knows-what against Flemeth at the end of Witch Hunt. 

Modifié par Pawlem, 02 novembre 2013 - 06:29 .

[ziloe]

HiroVoid wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

I blame growing up in the middle of a swamp for the way she acts.

You're actually right about that.  It's also why she's pretty bad at interacting with people too.  As far as world experience as a whole goes, she's probably the least knowledgable though she obviously grew up in a unique world experience.

Exactly. 

And this all comes back to the point of this topic. Everything is not all black and white. She has a reason in the way she is. It's not just oh, I'm like this because I am. She's lived and learned from an insane, mysterious old woman who hangs insignificant trespassers from trees, to ward wanderers away. 

This is not a normal childhood by the least. So for someone like my characters, who was for all intents a good guy, to break through that armour she's built to survive all this time, it's actually kind of sweet once she finally opens up to you.

[Pawlem]

ziloe wrote...

This is not a normal childhood by the least. So for someone like my characters, who was for all intents a good guy, to break through that armour she's built to survive all this time, it's actually kind of sweet once she finally opens up to you.

It is. That is is why I prefer her to Leliana. Heck, just got to the point in the relationship  in my playthrough where she's showing her fear of love. 

It'll be interesting to see how her more 'human' role in DA:I will play out if she romanced the warden in DA:O.

Modifié par Pawlem, 02 novembre 2013 - 07:07 .