1331 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonKingReborn]

 There was a thread dealing with a failed ending, where you lost at the end.  I'm curious as to whether players would accept a choice between an ending that was bad personally for their Inquisitor, but good for Thedas, or one where your character survived, but the world was in worse shape because of it.

The likelihood is, it won't be feasible to produce an ending where all the Veil tears aren't closed, but what about something like this;

We've been given reason to believe that these troubles are 'man-made' and part of a larger plan for mischief.  Would players be ok where, like Origins, there were three (or more) options where you could die, for varying reasons, but all ended up well (the meaningful death) and another where you were able to live, but only by letting the villain responsible slip free, possibly with the world knowing that you did so (the empty life).

I haven't played any mass effect games, so don't know from experience, but there was a lot of drama around the ending of me3, I believe, because all the ending options seemed like a 'loss'.  If the four flavours of ending in Origins were reversed, I.e. Instead of living in three of the possible endings, you died in them, but otherwise all ended well for the Inquisition, would that be something that players could be happy with (and knowing that the plan is to have a new protagonist each game) and not feel they'd been cheated out of content?

tl/dr 

 If you could win, and win well, but your character died,would you accept that as a game well written and made?

[khariuade]

mate let me say this. i hate those types of ending.. it always feels "forced" , i dont mind them being in the game but i want an ending where i get the cake and i get to eat it

e.g Survive, defeat villain, rainbows etc ;p

[DragonKingReborn]

That's fair enough - and me too. I just often see things like 'DA isn't dark and gritty enough'. What could be darker and grittier than hero dies to save everyone or hero lives but is forever tarnished?

I actually can't see too many people being on board with the idea, was just curious to see reaction.

[TurretSyndrome]

DragonKingReborn wrote...

We've been given reason to believe that these troubles are 'man-made' and part of a larger plan for mischief.  Would players be ok where, like Origins, there were three (or more) options where you could die, for varying reasons, but all ended up well (the meaningful death) and another where you were able to live, but only by letting the villain responsible slip free, possibly with the world knowing that you did so (the empty life).

If by that, you are referring to US and DR endings, then I will say this. I do not believe or even ever felt that my Warden led an "empty" life by not sacrificing. I will also say that sacrificing oneself does not always grant fulfillment to the person, and a meaning to his/her death. In Origins, it was merely a choice between certain death, or an uncertain future. 

I chose the uncertain future believing myself to be capable of handling any negative consequences that I may have to deal with later.(just wanted to add that)

A meaningful death or an empty life. If these are the only choices it comes down to, in Inquisition, I will be very much disappointed.

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 28 octobre 2013 - 08:03 .

[Sharn01]

From the sounds of what they have released from the game so far, and I hope its true, your ending can vary from bad to sunshine and rainbows, but there is not going to be one big decision at the end where you choose between the good or bad endings. Instead they will be based on the decisions you made through the game and how well you executed them, so to get the ending you really want, its wont be a simple reload but you will have to play the game from the beginning.

[Welsh Inferno]

That kind of ending can be great if written in well. You know there would be a plethora of threads on here whining about the fact that they cant get a super happy rainbow bunnies ending though.

[MisanthropePrime]

To accept death is to accept weakness. The great do not die.

[DragonKingReborn]

@turretsyndrome, I definitely worded that section quoted poorly. Origins endings were their own and in no way empty. The 'empty life' was in reference to the idea put forth, the Inquisitor lives, but in shame.

Conceptually I would likely be disappointed as well, but without experiencing those endings written and produced by bioware, I guess I'll never know.

[DragonKingReborn]

Sharn01 wrote...

From the sounds of what they have released from the game so far, and I hope its true, your ending can vary from bad to sunshine and rainbows, but there is not going to be one big decision at the end where you choose between the good or bad endings. Instead they will be based on the decisions you made through the game and how well you executed them, so to get the ending you really want, its wont be a simple reload but you will have to play the game from the beginning.

Wasn't that the mass effect problem? I think that would annoy a huge number of people.  I don't mind things being harder based on how I've played, but unavailable...?  In Origins, you got to decide before the final battle about the dark ritual, which determined if a warden (whoever it might be) died, or if both wardens lived.  Then you fought the final battle.  Not knowing if something was locked out before the endgame, would be annoying or agonising, depending on how much I've enjoyed the game until that point.

[Sharn01]

It isn't a mass effect problem at all, no matter how you play ME3 you get three ending choices at the end that are always the same, and none of them are a good choice, to some people certain choices where abhorrent.

Having multiple endings that vary based on your choices throughout the game is the exact opposite of what ME3 did.

[DragonKingReborn]

Ok - haven't played any of them. Just based on what I'd heard, that you had to do a handful of very specific things throughout all three games to get the 'good ending'. No big deal.

I guess, as long as there were at least two endings available for any given playthrough that'd be ok.

[Rolling Flame]

I'd rather there be the options to completely succeed (a living Inquisitor in a better Thedas, for example) or completely fail, in addition to what you're proposing.

The trick, of course, is making the golden ending difficult to achieve.

[whykikyouwhy]

DragonKingReborn wrote...

tl/dr 

 If you could win, and win well, but your character died,would you accept that as a game well written and made?

I suppose it all depends on how you define "win." For me, a successful playthrough is one in which I'm engaged, one in which I care about the world, the people in it, and my character. Ideally, I want that character to have some accomplishments under her belt - missions/quests that ended with some positive or beneficial outcome - people/places saved from harm, maybe some riches amassed, etc. But it doesn't have to be an all out world-saving, triumphant pose with cape fluttering in the wind ending for me to call it perfect. If the journey is rough, if there are hardships and mistakes and bruises obtained, that would be fine too. 

Yeah, the bonus would be a hero that survives for the next fight, has tales to tell to mark her own legend, but I'm fine with a hero that has been sacrificed, so long as I feel that the journey to arrive at that ending had some substance. It's all subjective, really, but I'm more invested in the total story and how I feel while playing it.

[DatOneFanboy]

Implying Saving thedas is a "Good choice" , Thedas is ****ed , Having the ability to shape a world allows the ability to rebuild.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
As a rule, I do not like heroic sacrifice endings, and I will always somewhat resent a story that appears to tell me it's the best kind of ending. In DAO I had several options for surviving, and I don't feel tarnished by either of them. If you order Alistair to kill the Archdemon, this is following the Grey Warden tradition that the most senior Warden does it because he has the least lifetime left. If you let Loghain kill the Archdemon, this is his redemption, and I feel it is very appropriate. If you do the Dark Ritual, you're facing an uncertain element in the future, but you also added something interesting to it. All these options felt right for those of my Wardens who chose them, and I would hate it if the story told me they are "lesser" choices.

In ME3, I resented that Shepard's survival was tied to an ending I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, and even if you like Destroy, it's all too apparent that the writers didn't want Shepard to survive even there. I hate this kind of setup, both the first and the second aspect. Yeah, objectively it's not better or worse than any other type, but personally I hate it.

There is, as a rule, one thing I want out of my endings, as far as the protagonist's fate is concerned: I want to be able to imagine that my protagonist leads, or continues to lead, a meaningful life after the story has ended. I want to imagine them being in a dozen other stories, even if I never get to hear or read them. I want them to experience happy and sad moments, continue to be extraordinary in their way, have good and bad times with their LIs, maybe even breaking up. And I don't want to sacrifice significant big-picture benefits for them. The important points here are "survival" and "a dynamic, interesting life" (the latter is the reason why I don't like "happily ever after" type epilogues. Not that I've seen those lately). I don't need to be told any details, but it is important that the epilogue hints that these things are possible.

There is also one thing I hate beyond all measure: if the protagonist is divested of all that made him special in the end, downsized from larger-than-life back to normal. My reaction, and the emotional impact, would be similar to seeing them made Tranquil. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 octobre 2013 - 11:17 .

[Wulfram]

I'm OK with the PC dying at the end so long as their death doesn't feel like their death is just being tacked on because of an aversion to happy endings.

I don't think a straight choice between a heroic sacrifice ending and an otherwise clearly inferior ending would be an especially great ending choice, though. I don't feel that the moral question being posed is actually all that interesting.

[Fast Jimmy]

Also, as a point of note, whatever "negative" outcome for Thedas if your Inquisitor took the easy way out would not be able to be adequately reflected in future games due to limitations of the Save Import.

They wouldn't be able to make DA4 where everything was rainbows and sunshine if your PC died and also another game world that was darker and grittier (with abominations and demons running amuck, let's say) due to how many resources would hang on that one choice. So if they can't accommodate a real feeling that your choice had any real consequence on the world, then it would ultimately make it trivial, meaning most everyone would use the "live" option.

Something I'm sure we'll see with the DR/OGB here once DA:I come out.

[ruggly]

I don't mind a heroic sacrifice ending so long as it's not the only type of ending. It's becoming as cliché as happy-as-can-be endings.

[Star fury]

Davey the troll will have a field day in this topic with his "heroism" drivel.

[Plaintiff]

I don't understand why these would be my only two options, but personally, I make the choices that I feel would lead to the more interesting narrative.

[Br3admax]

Star fury wrote...

Davey the troll will have a field day in this topic with his "heroism" drivel.

Um, don't be so sure.

We will never forget those that we have lost in the defence of BSN. 


Anyway, a meaningful death is okay, but I highly doubt that BioWare is ready for such types of writting, as they are still working out what is and what is not meaningful in the eyes of their fan base. 

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Davey the troll will have a field day in this topic with his "heroism" drivel.

Um, don't be so sure.

We will never forget those that we have lost in the defence of BSN. 


Anyway, a meaningful death is okay, but I highly doubt that BioWare is ready for such types of writting, as they are still working out what is and what is not meaningful in the eyes of their fan base. 

Just wait for the remainder of 24 hours, this topic will still be open.

[Star fury]

Br3ad wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Davey the troll will have a field day in this topic with his "heroism" drivel.

Um, don't be so sure.

We will never forget those that we have lost in the defence of BSN. 


Anyway, a meaningful death is okay, but I highly doubt that BioWare is ready for such types of writting, as they are still working out what is and what is not meaningful in the eyes of their fan base. 

Exactly. Davey gets away with a murder because he defends(or pretends to defend) Bioware. Be it trolling, offtopic, insults, thread derailing etc.

Modifié par Star fury, 28 octobre 2013 - 12:31 .