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[Deverz]

iakus wrote...

Deverz wrote...

If you want to believe Shep is missing arms and legs and will bleed out and die a slow death there's nothing stopping you. If you want to believe Shep survived, went back to Earth and made love with Wrex there's nothing stopping you. No one is right or wrong. Everything post-Crucible is headcanon-country.

How about SHepards survival in Control and Synthesis.  Is that valid headcanon?

Look dude, I've read every crazy theory out there. In Control Shepard can build a robot and implant his memories into it. Or that in Synthesis his mind was uploaded into the Reaper collective or whatever. Doesn't matter, it's all headcanon, and there's nothing to dispute what's basically in your head. That's how the endings were designed.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

iakus wrote...

Deverz wrote...

If you want to believe Shep is missing arms and legs and will bleed out and die a slow death there's nothing stopping you. If you want to believe Shep survived, went back to Earth and made love with Wrex there's nothing stopping you. No one is right or wrong. Everything post-Crucible is headcanon-country.

How about SHepards survival in Control and Synthesis.  Is that valid headcanon?

Don't you remember how we figured out how we could extract Shepard's genes from samples from different people untl Mordin said he "had a complete copy" and make a clone in the Synthesis ending (if you had Mordin survive)? That was in April 2012. I'm not going to dig through the threads. Control was a bit more dicey because we'd have to find viable tissue.

Now Liara's Gift was where she exchanged memories with Shepard. This is how Bioware could bring back Shepard. Liara did a very invasive mind probe and made a full copy of Shepard's memories. Now Mordin makes a clone of Shepard, then Liara melds with the clone and implants Shepard's memories. This would be Shepard before Shepard went up the beam and before that final battle. 

"What happened?" 

"You were sort of unconscious for a while, Shepard." Liara said.

"How long was I out?"

"About two years to be exact. It was real touch and go for a while, but Mordin brought you back." Liara said.

"Yes, had to extract dna samples from hundreds of subjects, match up until had exact dna sample to match one in Citadel Archive. Not easy task. Then make clone. Liara plant your memory final step." Mordin said.

"Wait a minute. What do you mean 'make clone'?"

"Do you remember the gift I gave you? You died during the war. Vaporized. Mordin and I brought you back. I just restored your memories with that gift. The gift was a back up plan, just in case." Liara informed Shepard.

[AlexMBrennan]

This is how Bioware could bring back Shepard

Why bother? It is canon that you can bring back people with all memories intact up to the second of their death from a pile of ash.

Of course, that sorta ruins your imagined reunion

untl Mordin said he "had a complete copy" and make a clone in the Synthesis ending

Pretty sure that any ME medic would be able to do that given some hairs or a few drops of blood; again, it's canon that backwater baterian hospitals routinely regrow entire limbs for accident victims.

[Darks1d3]

Synthesis never felt right to me. "Pinnacle of Evolution"? "Transcending mortality"? It always sounded like stagnation to me. That, and no one in the galaxy asked for it. Even the Star Child said it itself, "it cannot be forced". Everlasting Peace? We better ourselves by facing and overcoming harships, and to completely get rid of those sounds like a boring and uneventful life. Knowing that Death is inevitable can make Life itself truly special. Synthesis is just too pefect, for if there's nothing left to accomplish in life, than whats the point?

Control also never sounded that great to me. Sure, I bet paragon shepard has the best intentions, and may even be the proper caretaker of the galaxy for a while. But eventually, Shepard will lose all touch with his/her humanity, maybe not in centuries or even a milenia, but it will happen. No one should hold that much power, and some of the worst things done in history have been done with the "best" intentions. Besides, it just sounds like a hellish existance. Never to enjoy another favorite meal? Or feel the caress of a loved one? Never again to even interact with anyone? Forever trapped in the citadel with no one but the star child as company? Nah, I couldn't do that to Shepard.

While I'm not a big fan of destroy, I just couldn't choose the other two. Allow the galaxy to move foward on it's own terms without the reapers. It just seemed to be the least worst choice. I don't take the death of EDI or the geth lightly, and it hurts to be honest. I can only hope their sacrifice won't be in vain.

Modifié par Darks1d3, 30 octobre 2013 - 04:28 .

[SwobyJ]

Deverz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Deverz wrote...

If you want to believe Shep is missing arms and legs and will bleed out and die a slow death there's nothing stopping you. If you want to believe Shep survived, went back to Earth and made love with Wrex there's nothing stopping you. No one is right or wrong. Everything post-Crucible is headcanon-country.

How about SHepards survival in Control and Synthesis.  Is that valid headcanon?

Look dude, I've read every crazy theory out there. In Control Shepard can build a robot and implant his memories into it. Or that in Synthesis his mind was uploaded into the Reaper collective or whatever. Doesn't matter, it's all headcanon, and there's nothing to dispute what's basically in your head. That's how the endings were designed.

Yep, until/unless we're shown otherwise. (and good catch on those theories! It's 2/3ish of what I've been thinking, ha; the Catalyst is simply Shepard talking to himself, in the end, because 'The Shepard' has a hell of a journey left to go, even as Shepard himself moves on)

To me, Synthesis simply  =

Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 octobre 2013 - 02:55 .

[Darks1d3]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

This is how Bioware could bring back Shepard

Why bother? It is canon that you can bring back people with all memories intact up to the second of their death from a pile of ash.

Of course, that sorta ruins your imagined reunion

untl Mordin said he "had a complete copy" and make a clone in the Synthesis ending

Pretty sure that any ME medic would be able to do that given some hairs or a few drops of blood; again, it's canon that backwater baterian hospitals routinely regrow entire limbs for accident victims.

So...what, a Shepard Ghola? I suppose it hasn't been proven that it can't be done. I just remain...skeptical. Though head cannon can certainly be better than just the ambiguous "breath" scene.

[Rotward]

SwobyJ wrote...

All of the endings are beautiful.

They are, just not for this series. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Darks1d3 wrote...

Synthesis never felt right to me. "Pinnacle of Evolution"? "Transcending mortality"? It always sounded like stagnation to me. That, and no one in the galaxy asked for it. Even the Star Child said it itself, "it cannot be forced". Everlasting Peace? We better ourselves by facing and overcoming harships, and to completely get rid of those sounds like a boring and uneventful life. Knowing that Death is inevitable can make Life itself truly special. Synthesis is just too pefect, for if there's nothing left to accomplish in life, than whats the point?

Control also never sounded that great to me. Sure, I bet paragon shepard has the best intentions, and may even be the proper caretaker of the galaxy for a while. But eventually, Shepard will lose all touch with his/her humanity, maybe not in centuries or even a milenia, but it will happen. No one should hold that much power, and some of the worst things done in history have been done with the "best" intentions. Besides, it just sounds like a hellish existance. Never to enjoy another favorite meal? Or feel the caress of a loved one? Never again to even interact with anyone? Forever trapt in the citadel with no one but the star child as company? Nah, I couldn't do that to Shepard.

While I'm not a big fan of destroy, I just couldn't choose the other two. Allow the galaxy to move foward on it's own terms without the reapers. It just seemed to be the least worst choice. I don't take the death of EDI or the geth lightly, and it hurts to be honest. I can only hope their sacrifice won't be in vain.

The ending absolutely sucks. Don't take it seriously. You die, the relays explode, and the Normandy crashes.

Since you are new here.... you need to see this. 

[SwobyJ]

Rotward wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

All of the endings are beautiful.

They are, just not for this series. 

They're perfect for this series.

Their implementation was woefully handled.

In retrospect, Bioware's commentary on what they think they did wrong was correct. They didn't handle player connection to Shepard and his allies well enough for the ending to be satisfying.

Instead of the weird logic of the ending being a plot point to address in future games, they bungled it and had players feel they were entirely lost and confused. I don't care what artistic point you're trying to make - people bought a product with some specific expectations, often based on developer words. And Bioware didn't deliver that.

But the endings, as they are in themselves? Great. Not just for the trilogy, but for future implications for the franchise, moving forward, and upward.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 octobre 2013 - 03:16 .

[Darks1d3]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Darks1d3 wrote...

Synthesis never felt right to me. "Pinnacle of Evolution"? "Transcending mortality"? It always sounded like stagnation to me. That, and no one in the galaxy asked for it. Even the Star Child said it itself, "it cannot be forced". Everlasting Peace? We better ourselves by facing and overcoming harships, and to completely get rid of those sounds like a boring and uneventful life. Knowing that Death is inevitable can make Life itself truly special. Synthesis is just too pefect, for if there's nothing left to accomplish in life, than whats the point?

Control also never sounded that great to me. Sure, I bet paragon shepard has the best intentions, and may even be the proper caretaker of the galaxy for a while. But eventually, Shepard will lose all touch with his/her humanity, maybe not in centuries or even a milenia, but it will happen. No one should hold that much power, and some of the worst things done in history have been done with the "best" intentions. Besides, it just sounds like a hellish existance. Never to enjoy another favorite meal? Or feel the caress of a loved one? Never again to even interact with anyone? Forever trapt in the citadel with no one but the star child as company? Nah, I couldn't do that to Shepard.

While I'm not a big fan of destroy, I just couldn't choose the other two. Allow the galaxy to move foward on it's own terms without the reapers. It just seemed to be the least worst choice. I don't take the death of EDI or the geth lightly, and it hurts to be honest. I can only hope their sacrifice won't be in vain.

The ending absolutely sucks. Don't take it seriously. You die, the relays explode, and the Normandy crashes.

Since you are new here.... you need to see this. 

Umm....wow...lol. someone had way too much time on their hands. but still, lol.

EDIT: if the creator of that segment was you, nice job.

Modifié par Darks1d3, 30 octobre 2013 - 04:23 .

[MrMrPendragon]

I never really accepted the control and synthesis endings. They weren't very convincing solutions to me.

In synthesis, the reapers and the stupid starchild will just eventually be superior over the organic race. They are more advanced, more intelligent, and more powerful. Also, synthesis felt like it was tampering with evolution. You shouldn't guide evolution, even Mordin said that.

Control also was just not for me. I believe that Shepard would just have too much power, and he's just a man. The Catalyst acted like a god, and it resulted into reapers. The same might happen to Shepard.

Destroy wasn't that perfect either. There's still that "synthetics vs organics" the starchild kept blabbering about. Also there may be other threats. But I always figured there will always be another "Shepard" to save the galaxy, no matter what happens, no matter what timeline.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

SwobyJ wrote...


But the endings, as they are in themselves? Great. Not just for the trilogy, but for future implications for the franchise, moving forward, and upward.

Not likely.

All reports out of BWHQ point to ME4 disregarding the trilogy and starting over with just the setting.

AU. Reboot. Whatever you'd like to call it.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Don't you remember how we figured out how we could extract Shepard's genes from samples from different people untl Mordin said he "had a complete copy" and make a clone in the Synthesis ending (if you had Mordin survive)? That was in April 2012. I'm not going to dig through the threads. Control was a bit more dicey because we'd have to find viable tissue.

There's also the EC slide from Sync epilogue of Kasumi with an AI version of Keiji. Per the writer of that slide (Pat Weekes), it's up to the player to decide if the AI is the man himself (ressurrected) or if it's just a really convincing imitation of him. Control poses the same hypothetical with Shepard: is it a brand new AI, or does Shepard live on (in a new body)?

Shepard keeping a journal has been an established part of my (head)canon since well before ME3 came out. So I hit on the idea of using it to "ressurect" my Shepard: the journal is processed into a "blank" AI, which adopts Shepard's previous memories as his own, and uses existing pieces of audio-visual data to recreate voice and appearance, and this AV data coupled with Shepard's first-person "voice" from his journal allow the AI to recreate his former personality. Boom! Shepard returns, post-Sync, as an AI. Just a convincing copy? Maybe, but maybe post-Lazarus Shepard was, too.

Sadly, this exists only within the realm of headcanon (like Shepard emerging from the rubble in one piece).

[SwobyJ]

I'm not talking about central plot implications.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 30 octobre 2013 - 06:14 .

[Vigilant111]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Yes, this.  Had the AI sat around doling out dollars and donuts as some exercise meant to solve nutritional voids and as a way to stave off poverty, I'd have questioned his "sanity" just as much.  He exists (regardless of the stupidly flawed leviathan DLC) as an antagonist lacking good reason and logic.  His own words cast doubt on his truthiness.  He is singularly fully capable of deceit (since he created the reapers and thus created their ability to indoctrinate which does convince people of things they'd otherwise not believe in or do) and contradicts himself and his creations.  Again, it's either that he's an Artificial non-Intelligence or he's a big fat liar or both, strictly using human/organic based terms to describe behavior his programming authorized or he discovered on his own.  This makes leviathan stupid.  His programming allowed him to lie and create deception and it was full of holes.

The options exist in the absence and due to a non-working previously used solution that wasn't a solution at all because it freaking never worked to do what he intended it to do.  He says his solution (the reapers) no longer work.  I've said this before, that means they are no longer a solution.  If I'm trying to fix a problem with my computer and I think I know what's wrong and I implement what I think will fix it, but it doesn't, I won't keep doing the same thing expecting different results.  That's stupid.  But the kid still uses the reapers even after he says they are no longer working, no longer a solution.  That's incredibly stupid. 

On the other hand, Shepard and company and even the geth themselves come to far better solutions on their own.  But some will say "the peace doesn't last, the geth and quarians are fighting again."  So what?  It's not like the reapers don't keep coming back and keep killing organics every 50k years and it's not like any one of thes ridiculous solutions is ever going to be permanent either.  Destroy-the kid says is the least permanent.  Control-who's to say that some won't build another crucible even to try and destroy the reapers.  Hackett even might since he wanted them dead-and he'd have access to the plans.  Synthesis-nothing says organic life can't spontaneously or artificially be created once again and surely synthetic life can be created at any time.  It sets the problem up again since if synthetics and organics exist, by the kid's own rules, the conflict exists.  And the reapers and the kid also still exist. 

Good luck with that-no solution is permanent.  The kid says that himself.  The conflict is inevitable and will always exist.  The created will always rebel against the creator.  If he's right on that for this instance then there will never be a solution or it will not always happen and will not always be inevitable.

Good work 3D

Though the Leviathans may not be as stupid as people think. The Leviathans admitted that the Catalyst continued to serve the purpose. What purpose might that be? We would never find out but an educated guess would be about political dominance. If this really is the truth then of course the "Organics vs Synthetics" theme would be a pretext

[Clayless]

ginner dave wrote...

 Right, so I just finished a default paragon femshep play through. I picked synthesis for the first time, and what the ****?
If the space magic beam suddenly makes everyone equal then why are the reapers buggering off like they have somewhere to go (instead of starting repairs on the billion years worth of murder and destruction they've inflicted on the galaxy). 

In the destroy ending the races of the galaxy celebrate defeating the reapers, synthesis ending they inspect their own persons like something is wrong! 'Holy **** my nuckles are glowing' 
EDI. During the synthesis epilogue everyone looked miserable and confused, except EDI. Why the hell is every organic miserable and confused while the one robot we know is somehow happy with the decision you made everyone half robot?
This is supposed to make any kind of sense? 

Miserable and confused? Are you sure you picked Synthesis? Sounds like you were projecting your pre-conceived ideas of what you thought it was going to be like and then created a post about it, completely ignoring what you actually saw.

[Reorte]

SwobyJ wrote...

Rotward wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

All of the endings are beautiful.

They are, just not for this series. 

They're perfect for this series.

Their implementation was woefully handled.
...

But the endings, as they are in themselves? Great. Not just for the trilogy, but for future implications for the franchise, moving forward, and upward.

No, not great. The basic idea of winding up deciding between Destroy and Control is fine, but you've got to pare it back to just that to leave anything worth having, and that's so bare bones that it can't really be called "great". Synthesis is utterly flawed in both concept and implementation though. Also you can't always say that an idea was good but the implementation was bad if the idea is impossible to implement well. That just makes it a bad idea (of course that doesn't rule out good ideas implemented badly).

[ElSuperGecko]

Garrus: Just tell me one thing, Shepard. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Shepard: That's the plan. You have my word on it.
Garrus: All right, I'm in.

...any Shepard who chooses Synthesis is a traitor. full stop.

[Xilizhra]

Garrus: Just tell me one thing, Shepard. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Shepard: That's the plan. You have my word on it.
Garrus: All right, I'm in.

...any Shepard who chooses Synthesis is a traitor. full stop.

A dialogue option I've literally never seen or even heard of, so I think I'm fine. I have, however, heard "Now, all you have to do is pacify the Reapers, and they'll make you a saint."

[BronzTrooper]

Xilizhra wrote...

Garrus: Just tell me one thing, Shepard. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Shepard: That's the plan. You have my word on it.
Garrus: All right, I'm in.

...any Shepard who chooses Synthesis is a traitor. full stop.

A dialogue option I've literally never seen or even heard of, so I think I'm fine. I have, however, heard "Now, all you have to do is pacify the Reapers, and they'll make you a saint."

To quote EDI: "That was a joke."

[Xilizhra]

Gamer072196 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Garrus: Just tell me one thing, Shepard. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Shepard: That's the plan. You have my word on it.
Garrus: All right, I'm in.

...any Shepard who chooses Synthesis is a traitor. full stop.

A dialogue option I've literally never seen or even heard of, so I think I'm fine. I have, however, heard "Now, all you have to do is pacify the Reapers, and they'll make you a saint."

To quote EDI: "That was a joke."

Still more useful than an unseen quote.

[DarthLaxian]

ginner dave wrote...

 Right, so I just finished a default paragon femshep play through. I picked synthesis for the first time, and what the ****?
If the space magic beam suddenly makes everyone equal then why are the reapers buggering off like they have somewhere to go (instead of starting repairs on the billion years worth of murder and destruction they've inflicted on the galaxy). 

In the destroy ending the races of the galaxy celebrate defeating the reapers, synthesis ending they inspect their own persons like something is wrong! 'Holy **** my nuckles are glowing' 
EDI. During the synthesis epilogue everyone looked miserable and confused, except EDI. Why the hell is every organic miserable and confused while the one robot we know is somehow happy with the decision you made everyone half robot?
This is supposed to make any kind of sense? 

EDI is being happy that maybe Jeff might now be firstly "cured" of his brittle-bone-disease (who knows what those nanites do to someone having a hereditary disease?) and secondly that he is now closer to her (so of course she would be happy IMHO)

as for the rest?

well, the reapers are bugging out IMHO because they don't want the recovering organics to destroy them (they might retreat and then offer help with rebuilding), now that they have served their function (according to the catalyst...maybe they don't even know what to do now?)

greetings LAX
ps: still a bad ending ^^ - but not unexplainable on the whole

[IllusiveManJr]

Eh, I'm not bothered by the endings anymore.

[ElSuperGecko]

[Xilizhra]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Why are wet mammals with shooped eyes standing in place of an argument?

[ElSuperGecko]

No argument is necessary, Xilizhra. Synthesis is an utter abomination, end of.