298 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

IanLai wrote...

actually i think what you are saying is more spurious .
no one use a gun force you to pay for the RNG,
you can choose to pay , you can hate it and not pay/play .
you can also work hard to play the game and get the creadit to buy it.

but hacking the game to get the credit is legit? no it is not and i explained how this affect the game companies and players in long term

you can say RNG is suck . you can say this behaviour is not a favour to customer.

{baffling, confusing, long-winded snip}

It's almost impossible to answer you, because everything you say is wrong.

You don't understand the words that you are using, and you are throwing around accusations without having any idea what you are talking about.

I do not hack. I have never cheated at Mass Effect. Nor did I ever claim ANY of the things you said in your post.

- I never said I hated Mass Effect

- I never said I hated earning my manifest

- I never claimed cheating is okay

- I never claimed I was forced to do anything

- I never said hacking was legit.

- I never said I hacked

- I never said stealing had no impact on people.

I was pointing out that your arguments are illogical. I attempted to explain the spuriousness of blaming the players for a problem created by the company.

You are in fact arguing with yourself, and putting a WHOLE LOT of words in my mouth. Don't be too surprised if I don't bother answering you, anymore.

[78stonewobble]

IanLai wrote...
in short you do not affect other players but in long term you will

1. max manifest is some players' part of the reason for playing the game, more player keep playing the game maintaining the game life cycle. so game company can keep profit . if more player can easily  max manifest in few hours, this will definietly shorten the game life. this create difficulies to find players in multiplay

2. the manifest in this game is part of the property of the game company. the game company provide you either you pay for them or keep playing to earn them. while you hack the game is stealing the game company profit. this can be  anthoer consideration in making
(just a supplemently about playing the game to earn game credit, game company does not get profit from these players, but these player help to keep the multiplay running , so get a better chance to get profit from others people who are willing to pay)

3. this is analogy , a theif steal other people thing does not necessary affect you directly , but it is definitely wrong. and one day you may suffer from him if no one catch him.

however  i understand if someone want to transfer manifest from one platform to other, this is your manifest and there is no fun in earing them again .

1. To unlock everything by playing regularly is, as you say, some player's motivation. Other players do not have the same motivation. You're mixing oil and water here. If the people whose sole motivation is to unlock by regular play were to be given everything, THEY might loose interest. However if the other group of people could not easily access everything, they might be turned off me3 mp completely. In short... enforcing the cheats will actually diminish the player base more than not. Also it does not diminish the profits since people willing to pay will pay, people not willing to pay will not pay.

2. You could argue ownership semantics like that but the fact of the mater is that pretty much all of us have bought the game and the dlc, and thus feel the right to use the guns at lvl X.

Also the argument of lost profits is based on the (rather unsubstantiated) assumption that people who cheat, both have the money to buy packs, but also the will to buy them, if cheating was not available.

3. It is NOT stealing. For it to be theft, bioware would have to miss something. The only thing that they can miss is profits (by that argument everyone NOT buying are stealing) and as I said above... That is an unsubstantiated claim.

[78stonewobble]

RainbowDazed wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

RainbowDazed wrote...

IanLai summed it up well. I'd at that people having the game lessen the meaning of my personal efforts. I have a lollicane IX and a Reelolgar VIII and I feel joy for having them. Most of my rares are like lvl 1-3 do those are special. Someone hacking an account diminishes the value of those little bundles of joy I have been lucky enough to obtain. because, you know, MP is a social experience and me having something not everyone has makes me feel happy and all giddy inside.

So what you're saying is you like to lord your virtual goodies around and pretend you're better than people. I see.

Good sir, you should perhaps spend more time on contemplating the replies people give you and less time typing fast provocative answers. 

Yes, I am not ashamed to admit that in online games status means something to me. I like completig challenges for the joy of being a completionist, sure, but part of it is to be able to use a certain banner. I like having things that are rare and that you have to work to obtain. They feel more special. That's why I don't like cheating either. Obtaining all the banner for instance by hacking the game takes away the very thing that gives them any meaning - effort. I also like the suspense of buying new packs, getting new weapons or new appearance options for characters. What I mean by this is that there is no simple answer that sums everything up for this question. 

I have no illusion of being better than anyone. In fact, I'm a pretty crappy person in real life. But I do like to know that I have earned what I have. Cheaters in general inflate the value of hard work. That I do not like nor approve. 

Just my 2 cents, as I believe the american/english saying goes. 

No it is an excellent point he's making.

If you want to unlock everything by playing regularly because it gives you a sense of personal accomplishment. That is fine... It's pretty good attribute to have actually... The will to self improvement.

If you want to unlock everything by playing regularly so you can flaunt your success in the face of others too get an egoboost from other peoples admiration?

That on the other hand, in most places, is a douchebag (or a reality star, if there is a difference).

PS: How would I even know ingame whether a player has maxed his/her manifest by playing, by buying (pay 2 win?) or by cheating (cheat 2 win). Heck if I could choose I'd rather have the squadmate with the highest level weapon if everything else is the same.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 31 octobre 2013 - 04:16 .

[Shinobu]

OP, thank you for buying packs and reporting on the outcome. That information will be useful to people who are thinking of doing the same. As for how much $$ it takes to max a manifest, I believe Guyblade's (sadly defunct) site estimated it would take more than $1000 to max a manifest starting from scratch. (I can't remember exactly how much more.)

Also,I support you spending your income however you choose -- especially since it's subsidizing my gaming habit.

It took me over 1200 hours to max my manifest through gameplay. Others who played Gold/Plat more consistently took about 800 hours. So, you still have a way to go yet, but hopefully you'll enjoy it with your new unlocks.

As for hax, I think it's interesting that a year ago most of the BSN would be calling for the hackers to be banned, but since ban waves are no longer happening hacking is now a recommended practice. It's as if the perceived morality of something is determined by whether or not it is punished. :innocent:

I do believe widespread hacking will affect others. If the OP is convinced to hack in future instead of spending money he otherwise would have been willing to give to EA, EA will see fewer profits. They may then respond by making packs in ME4 $4 instead of $3. That's not to defend this practice or claim it's effective, but just to say that it's a good possibility that's how a corporation would respond. If EA didn't think hacking affected their bottom line they would never have bothered banning credit glitchers in the first place. The reason they've stopped is probably because it costs them more to pay someone to investigate and ban people than they would recoup in pack money.

My 2 cents.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Shinobu wrote...

As for hax, I think it's interesting that a year ago most of the BSN would be calling for the hackers to be banned, but since ban waves are no longer happening hacking is now a recommended practice. It's as if the perceived morality of something is determined by whether or not it is punished. :innocent:

I dunno.  Missile glitching is still considered bad.

[Creator Limbs]

I picked destroy. It's the only acceptable ending.

[RainbowDazed]

78stonewobble wrote...

RainbowDazed wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

RainbowDazed wrote...

IanLai summed it up well. I'd at that people having the game lessen the meaning of my personal efforts. I have a lollicane IX and a Reelolgar VIII and I feel joy for having them. Most of my rares are like lvl 1-3 do those are special. Someone hacking an account diminishes the value of those little bundles of joy I have been lucky enough to obtain. because, you know, MP is a social experience and me having something not everyone has makes me feel happy and all giddy inside.

So what you're saying is you like to lord your virtual goodies around and pretend you're better than people. I see.

Good sir, you should perhaps spend more time on contemplating the replies people give you and less time typing fast provocative answers. 

Yes, I am not ashamed to admit that in online games status means something to me. I like completig challenges for the joy of being a completionist, sure, but part of it is to be able to use a certain banner. I like having things that are rare and that you have to work to obtain. They feel more special. That's why I don't like cheating either. Obtaining all the banner for instance by hacking the game takes away the very thing that gives them any meaning - effort. I also like the suspense of buying new packs, getting new weapons or new appearance options for characters. What I mean by this is that there is no simple answer that sums everything up for this question. 

I have no illusion of being better than anyone. In fact, I'm a pretty crappy person in real life. But I do like to know that I have earned what I have. Cheaters in general inflate the value of hard work. That I do not like nor approve. 

Just my 2 cents, as I believe the american/english saying goes. 

No it is an excellent point he's making.

If you want to unlock everything by playing regularly because it gives you a sense of personal accomplishment. That is fine... It's pretty good attribute to have actually... The will to self improvement.

If you want to unlock everything by playing regularly so you can flaunt your success in the face of others too get an egoboost from other peoples admiration?

That on the other hand, in most places, is a douchebag (or a reality star, if there is a difference).

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about flaunting anything infront of anyone. I'd argue that it's somewhat naive to say that achieving something that comes with an effort does not have a social meaning. We humans are social creatures and what the society thinks of us means something, a lot for most humans. If these things did not have a meaning, what'd be the point of ranking systems, banners like BotB, or manifests. Sure, one can argue that there are personal goals tied to these all, but once again, I'd argue that it'd be naive to skip the social meanings tied to them. 

And to put is a bluntly as one can - hacking is doing something that breaks the gamesystem to obtain something. When you break a system that just affects you (a singleplayer in this instance), I do not care. If you break something that many people participate in: that, in my book, makes you a douchebag. 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I picked destroy. It's the only acceptable ending.

Although I have converted to Destroy, I picked Synthesis for my 2 original canon playthroughs.

Come at me! 

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I picked destroy. It's the only acceptable ending.

Is destroy the one with the red coloured beams?

[Creator Limbs]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I picked destroy. It's the only acceptable ending.

Although I have converted to Destroy, I picked Synthesis for my 2 original canon playthroughs.

Come at me! 

Listen to yourself, you're indoctrinated!

[78stonewobble]

RainbowDazed wrote...

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about flaunting anything infront of anyone. I'd argue that it's somewhat naive to say that achieving something that comes with an effort does not have a social meaning. We humans are social creatures and what the society thinks of us means something, a lot for most humans. If these things did not have a meaning, what'd be the point of ranking systems, banners like BotB, or manifests. Sure, one can argue that there are personal goals tied to these all, but once again, I'd argue that it'd be naive to skip the social meanings tied to them. 

And to put is a bluntly as one can - hacking is doing something that breaks the gamesystem to obtain something. When you break a system that just affects you (a singleplayer in this instance), I do not care. If you break something that many people participate in: that, in my book, makes you a douchebag. 

Only if a persons fragile ego is dependent on the admiration of others, in which case they are douchebags too.

If I unlock everything by playing regularly. I have unlocked everything regularly. Whatever person X does, does not affect that achievement. Unless my achievement is dependent on the ability to look down on person X's from some kind of piedestal.
 

[Creator Limbs]

b00g13man wrote...

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I picked destroy. It's the only acceptable ending.

Is destroy the one with the red coloured beams?

Blue..green..

yeah, red.

[MzAdventure]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I picked destroy. It's the only acceptable ending.

QFMFT

[Kel Riever]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

No one said it's legit.

I'm a girl.

And "working hard" to max my manifest is a stupid idea. The point of the game is to enjoy it, not to "work." It seems to me that you find the RNG just as laborious as anyone else.

No!  How can you possibly have fun playing the game without good equipment!

I remember when I first started playing this game was no fun until I got my first Mattock and unlocked the Krogan soldier.  Then it only became a little fun.  Now, I have the most fun after playing for a year so I could maximize my fun!

/sarcasm.

[IanLai]

78stonewobble wrote...
1. To unlock everything by playing regularly is, as you say, some player's motivation. Other players do not have the same motivation. You're mixing oil and water here. If the people whose sole motivation is to unlock by regular play were to be given everything, THEY might loose interest. However if the other group of people could not easily access everything, they might be turned off me3 mp completely. In short... enforcing the cheats will actually diminish the player base more than not. Also it does not diminish the profits since people willing to pay will pay, people not willing to pay will not pay.

2. You could argue ownership semantics like that but the fact of the mater is that pretty much all of us have bought the game and the dlc, and thus feel the right to use the guns at lvl X.

Also the argument of lost profits is based on the (rather unsubstantiated) assumption that people who cheat, both have the money to buy packs, but also the will to buy them, if cheating was not available.

3. It is NOT stealing. For it to be theft, bioware would have to miss something. The only thing that they can miss is profits (by that argument everyone NOT buying are stealing) and as I said above... That is an unsubstantiated claim.

thx for reply with good arguments
allow me not making quoting pyramid
what i am asked is for telling him/her how cheating to get max manifest affect others non cheater
the main aspect i want to emphasis is , it seems it does not affect directly or nearly non of your businese even i cheat, but it definitely get some affections.
so i just sugget some possibility/ examples not necessary 100% correct , however  there is also a high possibility to happen


1.yes you are right . but there is a difference
if the player cheat and shorten game life cycle, that is cheaters responsibility.(i emphasis not a single cheater , i mean all cheaters)
but if it is the stupid RNG make the people lost interest to the game, than it is the game company responsibility
good we both agree cheater shornten game life cycle is a more likely behaviour than game company

2.this part i am sorry , what i mean is more general view, any game, not only mass effect.my bad
and what you say is right .it depends on perspective if you own the game assets or the game company own them.
but the problme is game company even they may not necessary loss profit from cheaters, they defintely not gain either.
they make a reconsdieration about making another game multiplay next time. ok this time say mass effect 4
do we have all free dlc next time, they may think that this may not worth in the next game because of cheaters. force the players to buy it may be gain more benefit etc. (it is true that some people  won't spend a single credit if it is paid)
but what i mean are affections to the game company. not only the profit they gain or lose .

3. don't be strict here dude, just an analogy(ok may be not good, but even bible can't make a 100% similar analogy) the analogy is more about the theif , he steals things, but not your. so it does not affect you directly. but if you know your community is full of thief, will you live there, what i want to say is more relate to the influence. even the theif is not stealing your own property, it does not mean he doesn't affect the community. otherwise why we need to pay for tax XD

Modifié par IanLai, 31 octobre 2013 - 04:38 .

[Tokenusername]

This thread needs more options.

Han shot first.

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

Miscellaneous Mind wrote...

QU33N_ANG3L wrote...
why does this thread still exist

I ask myself that question in regards to this sub-forum as a whole.

What he said. I have a dream...that one day...this place will be nuked for the benifit of all forumkind.

Just like that character sub-forum.

[OrcWhisperer]

Merry Christmas Bioware, $300 richer.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Tokenusername wrote...

This thread needs more options.

Red pill or blue pill

[ComradeShepard7]

cato_84 wrote...

ComradeShepard would likely be interested in your details, check out his thread

So going off the 130 PSPs (it would be nice if mhy_ could get an exact number for the total packs bought) I get the following UR weapon drop rate estimates:

95% CI for per slot weapon drop rate:
5.97% - 12.92% (small sample size leads to lots of uncertainty which is why the interval is so wide)

point estimate for per slot weapon drop rate:
8.85%

While the point estimate is higher than the upper bound of the PSP CI that has been found for the main effort it doesn't really say anything since the sample size here is so small and there is so much uncertainty. In fact the CI for PSP found in the main effort is completly contained within the CI found here. Still, if mhy_ could give me a percise number for how many PSPs were bought, both with money and with credits, I could use it for the project even though we have more than enough PSP data at this point.