298 réponses à ce sujet

[dosomethinguseful]

People are having fun in a different way than me. Stop me before I post about it.

[Feelitmon]

RZIBARA wrote...
i dont think people understand my complaint, your taking it as im judging people on economic choices, where im stating hes supporting micro transactions

Respectfully, what's not to understand? A lot of people have visceral reactions against micro-transactions and it sounds like you're one of them. It's almost always useless to try to debate this subject online though, just like with DRM, piracy, etc.

To paraphrase Jonathan Swift, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to get into in the first place. That applies to people on both sides of the debate.

Modifié par Feelitmon, 31 octobre 2013 - 11:13 .

[The One True Crash]

Feelitmon wrote...

RZIBARA wrote...
i dont think people understand my complaint, your taking it as im judging people on economic choices, where im stating hes supporting micro transactions

Respectfully, what's not to understand? A lot of people have visceral reactions against micro-transactions and it sounds like you're one of them. It's almost always useless to try to debate this subject online though, just like with DRM, piracy, etc.

To paraphrase Jonathan Swift, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to get into in the first place. That applies to people on both sides of the debate.

Good point.

[ClydeInTheShell]

RZIBARA wrote...

ClydeInTheShell wrote...

HoochieHamiltoe wrote...

It's not something that will go away. More and more game companies will do this. I'm also one of the people that put $20 in for every DLC BioWare came out with. Why not show some support for a game that I play so much?

QFT

I liked it better when we cried and complained about people who used character builds different than ours, not their economic choices.

i dont think people understand my complaint, your taking it as im judging people on economic choices, where im stating hes supporting micro transactions

Perhaps I shouldn't have said "cried and complained". In other words, I'm not interested in personally attacking anyone, RZIBARA.

I shoulda just looked real quick and not said anything, just dropped my *smh* gif...

[78stonewobble]

CrashUrStox wrote...

Without which, we wouldn't have free DLC. Would you rather have the (optional) microtransactions or have to fork over $10 and up everytime a new DLC dropped, without which you couldn't play with your friends who had bought it? Five DLCs for Mass Effect... 50 bones at the least. I would put money on the fact that you haven't paid for 50 dollars worth of microtransactions and yet you have all the DLC. These things cost money, microtransactions pay for them. Microtransactions are not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah, I for one am real glad to have that free dlc and the RNG to make up for it's costs.

Gee thanks everyone who is glad to have free dlc and didn't want to cough up the money. 

/sarcasm 

[The One True Crash]

78stonewobble wrote...

CrashUrStox wrote...

Without which, we wouldn't have free DLC. Would you rather have the (optional) microtransactions or have to fork over $10 and up everytime a new DLC dropped, without which you couldn't play with your friends who had bought it? Five DLCs for Mass Effect... 50 bones at the least. I would put money on the fact that you haven't paid for 50 dollars worth of microtransactions and yet you have all the DLC. These things cost money, microtransactions pay for them. Microtransactions are not necessarily a bad thing.

Yeah, I for one am real glad to have that free dlc and the RNG to make up for it's costs.

Gee thanks everyone who is glad to have free dlc and didn't want to cough up the money. 

/sarcasm 

I didn't spend a dime on micro-transactions and I have a maxed manifest (which I started in February, so I'm not exactly an old-timer). I also didn't have to spend a dime on DLC. From where I'm standing, letting others spend their money on microtransactions so the rest of us don't have to buy DLC looks like the best option to me, ESPECIALLY considering those people obviously wanted to buy the microtransactions. If I did have to buy the DLC, I probably wouldn't have it because I wouldn't want to spend over 100 bucks on a game. 

Modifié par CrashUrStox, 31 octobre 2013 - 11:46 .

[Heldarion]

mhy_ wrote...

Yo Son wrote...
not going to say this is ok, but typically speaking time is more valuable than money. Time is one of those things that not even money can buy. Also for some of you here, if you invest more than 300 hours in this game, you're even worst! imagine working for 1 dollar an hour=300 dollars; how about those vets that sunk in 2000 hours in this game? 
In other words if OP made 10 dollars and hour- 300 dollars would be a 30 hour payday for him.
In the other hands- This is virtual world, things only flow from 1 direction, from real world to virtual world, it does not flow back. So you just wasted 300 dollars on something that is virtually useless! same can be said for time, so this argument isn't really that 1 sided.

$300 is less than what I make in a day. So I can get 100 hours worth of in-game credits for less than an 8-hour workday.The (non-material and material) benefit I get from the $300 spent on packs will be worth it to me since it makes me happier and improves the quality of my game. I play ME3 for enjoyment and the money I spent enhances that enjoyment. So it's not "useless" at all. 

Well, damn. I can imagine you could care less about the amount you spent on ME3, then.

[mhy_]

Heldarion wrote...

mhy_ wrote...

Yo Son wrote...
not going to say this is ok, but typically speaking time is more valuable than money. Time is one of those things that not even money can buy. Also for some of you here, if you invest more than 300 hours in this game, you're even worst! imagine working for 1 dollar an hour=300 dollars; how about those vets that sunk in 2000 hours in this game? 
In other words if OP made 10 dollars and hour- 300 dollars would be a 30 hour payday for him.
In the other hands- This is virtual world, things only flow from 1 direction, from real world to virtual world, it does not flow back. So you just wasted 300 dollars on something that is virtually useless! same can be said for time, so this argument isn't really that 1 sided.

$300 is less than what I make in a day. So I can get 100 hours worth of in-game credits for less than an 8-hour workday.The (non-material and material) benefit I get from the $300 spent on packs will be worth it to me since it makes me happier and improves the quality of my game. I play ME3 for enjoyment and the money I spent enhances that enjoyment. So it's not "useless" at all. 

Well, damn. I can imagine you could care less about the amount you spent on ME3, then.

After the $300 for the packs, I don't even remember how much the game itself cost, lol. The DLCs together did cost quite a bit though.

[AlexMBrennan]

Before you flame me, I am a working professional and I have money but my time is limited. I can't really grind the multiplayer for hundreds of hours to unlock all the weapons.

And because of people like you, ME4 will come with multiplayer that will require a substantial investment of time and/or money to unlock the fun part of the game.

Seriously, do you think that the game was made better by forcing you to spend $300 on microtransactions or, alternatively, by forcing you to grind for weeks before you get the fun equipment?
As far as I am concerned you spent an extra $300 on a $50 game designed to not be fun in an attempt to make the game fun, which sounds rather like sunk cost fallacy and will ensure that ME4 will be even worse and feature even more grind.

[INVADERONE]

mhy_ wrote...

cato_84 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

The result is that you just spent 5 times the price of the game on the game.

Time is more valuable than money to some people.

Thank you. I'm glad people realize this.

There is nothing wrong for paying for something you enjoy. Time is very important as well as you clearly indicated in your post. Some of the posts here almost make it seem as if $300 was like spending $10K or something. It may seem like a lot of $ for some but for others its entertainment money. 

I respect you for going this route instead of the glitching/cheating route. I spent hours to get my maxed manifest and did a lot of speed runs and DLC drop day credit hoarding but I believe I did spend around $100 in the early days. Not all at once but $10 one week to see what I got, another $10 the other week to see etc etc. 

It seems that you did get quite a lot of good unlocks from the $300. At least the RNG didnt troll you too hard. It actually did well considering. Anyway, enjoy ME3 and best wishes on a Maxed Manifest for you. 

[mhy_]

INVADERONE wrote...

mhy_ wrote...

cato_84 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

The result is that you just spent 5 times the price of the game on the game.

Time is more valuable than money to some people.

Thank you. I'm glad people realize this.

There is nothing wrong for paying for something you enjoy. Time is very important as well as you clearly indicated in your post. Some of the posts here almost make it seem as if $300 was like spending $10K or something. It may seem like a lot of $ for some but for others its entertainment money. 

I respect you for going this route instead of the glitching/cheating route. I spent hours to get my maxed manifest and did a lot of speed runs and DLC drop day credit hoarding but I believe I did spend around $100 in the early days. Not all at once but $10 one week to see what I got, another $10 the other week to see etc etc. 

It seems that you did get quite a lot of good unlocks from the $300. At least the RNG didnt troll you too hard. It actually did well considering. Anyway, enjoy ME3 and best wishes on a Maxed Manifest for you. 

Back when I was a kid, I would see adults come in to stores and buy $100 worth of trading cards. At that time I resented them, but now I completely understand their viewpoint. These people had jobs, family, kids, etc.

I have never cheated in multiplayer games and don't plan to change that. 
BTW, I just watched your Volus Adept video on YouTube. Pretty cool stuff, lol. Maybe I'll try him.

[Zjarcal]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

RZIBARA wrote...

Ganglok3 wrote...

why is everyone soo upset about the OP spending his $$? If you have the $$ to spend, spend it.. are all of you upset when you see a Ferrari or CLK drive by because you can't purchase one?

/boggle

it bothers me because this is what causes companies to keep putting microtransactions in their games. When one play spends $300 on them

It does not matter because it is not your money.

Also, I'm not upset, I just felt OP needed to know that he could have achieved the same thing without spending money. Personally, I have better uses for $300. But as long as he enjoys his manifest, whatever.

^

It's not like the game doesn't offer the free alternative either.

In all seriousness, it's good the OP was willing to spend some money on packs, more money for the devs is always a good thing. I personally feel $300 was excessive, anywhere between $50 - $100 or so is enough to simulate the actual price you'd end up paying if the DLCs hadn't been free (the kind of DLC we got would've sold for around $10 - $20 each).

I may be of the opinion that at this point spending actual money is a waste (especially with the alternatives we have), but there's nothing wrong with someone choosing to do so.

INVADERONE wrote...


I respect you for going this route instead of the glitching/cheating route. I spent hours to get my maxed manifest...

Invaderjuan plz, as if that wasn't the case for practically everyone here.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 01 novembre 2013 - 12:29 .

[Malanek]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Before you flame me, I am a working professional and I have money but my time is limited. I can't really grind the multiplayer for hundreds of hours to unlock all the weapons.

And because of people like you, ME4 will come with multiplayer that will require a substantial investment of time and/or money to unlock the fun part of the game.

Seriously, do you think that the game was made better by forcing you to spend $300 on microtransactions or, alternatively, by forcing you to grind for weeks before you get the fun equipment?
As far as I am concerned you spent an extra $300 on a $50 game designed to not be fun in an attempt to make the game fun, which sounds rather like sunk cost fallacy and will ensure that ME4 will be even worse and feature even more grind.

 Because of people like him ME4 will come out with a bigger and better multiplayer. The fun will not be hidden because for the "addiction" to start it needs to be fun up front.


Some other points for the thread.

The OP didn't do anything wrong, everyone should spend their money on whatever they want. I've put over 1100 hours into this game. If I knew how much fun I would have found it at the start I would have gladly paid $300. In terms of value I consider ME multiplayer great.

People suggesting hacking and cheating are lame.

Maxing a manifest is a double edged sword. What the game does lack is a clear goal which working towards your manifest provides. I hope ME4 can keep some sort of rotating challenge system or goal in place to hold the interest even longer.

Modifié par Malanek999, 01 novembre 2013 - 12:37 .

[cato potato]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Before you flame me, I am a working professional and I have money but my time is limited. I can't really grind the multiplayer for hundreds of hours to unlock all the weapons.

And because of people like you, ME4 will come with multiplayer that will require a substantial investment of time and/or money to unlock the fun part of the game.

Seriously, do you think that the game was made better by forcing you to spend $300 on microtransactions or, alternatively, by forcing you to grind for weeks before you get the fun equipment?
As far as I am concerned you spent an extra $300 on a $50 game designed to not be fun in an attempt to make the game fun, which sounds rather like sunk cost fallacy and will ensure that ME4 will be even worse and feature even more grind.

You mean you had to grind for weeks until you got equipment that made the game fun for you? Why did you bother?

[bondiboy]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Before you flame me, I am a working professional and I have money but my time is limited. I can't really grind the multiplayer for hundreds of hours to unlock all the weapons.

And because of people like you, ME4 will come with multiplayer that will require a substantial investment of time and/or money to unlock the fun part of the game.

Seriously, do you think that the game was made better by forcing you to spend $300 on microtransactions or, alternatively, by forcing you to grind for weeks before you get the fun equipment?
As far as I am concerned you spent an extra $300 on a $50 game designed to not be fun in an attempt to make the game fun, which sounds rather like sunk cost fallacy and will ensure that ME4 will be even worse and feature even more grind.

Did you ever consider the possibilty that we had so much free DLC because players were spending money in store and subsidising the cost for  everyone else ?

Modifié par stricko, 01 novembre 2013 - 01:03 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Because of people like him ME4 will come out with a bigger and better multiplayer. The fun will not be hidden because for the "addiction" to start it needs to be fun up front.

1) you are saying that making the game addicting is good, which I find questionable.
2) if the fun wasn't hidden then why did he spend $300 when he could have had just as much fun without it?

You mean you had to grind for weeks until you got equipment that made the game fun for you? Why did you bother?

"Weeks" was the time I guessed it would have taken a player to unlock gear they want.
I used to play MP but stopped when I realised that I was just playing for the credits (and another chance at opening a box) rather than actually opening the game - as mentioned above, the system is designed to be addicting (random rewards work better in operant conditioning... )

anywhere between $50 - $100 or so is enough to simulate the actual price you'd end up paying if the DLCs hadn't been free

Twice the price of the base game is a fair price for a few MP maps and classes? Seriously?

everyone should spend their money on whatever they want

I believe that people should be responsible customers, and that includes not rewarding companies that make products you don't like (e.g. All the fun guns take loads of grinding).
Sure, in the short term paying off Bioware may allow you to enjoy the game more but OP would clearly have been happier if he had been able to access the fun stuff without grinding/paying extra.

When the demo was first released the random unlocks were one of the most complained about things, yet Bioware internally decided to keep them (as psychological trick to maximise micro-transaction income, as mentioned above).

Personally, I think that you should just bin the game if it tries to push you too hard to spend money on it.

[cato potato]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I used to play MP but stopped when I realised that I was just playing for the credits (and another chance at opening a box) rather than actually opening the game

Well, I'd guess your feelings about the game are very different from almost everyone else here. I enjoyed this game at the start when I had no equipment and I still enjoy it now when I've got a maxed manifest.
If you focussed so much on unlocking stuff then no wonder you don't play any more.

[Malanek]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Because of people like him ME4 will come out with a bigger and better multiplayer. The fun will not be hidden because for the "addiction" to start it needs to be fun up front.

1) you are saying that making the game addicting is good, which I find questionable.
2) if the fun wasn't hidden then why did he spend $300 when he could have had just as much fun without it? 

1 I was speaking colloquially hence the quotation marks. Its addictive because its fun, nothing else. There is a very slight moral issue, which I'm not even sure is an issue at all. But it is possible that some people do become genuinely addicted to the game and throw away money they cant afford to. But I am somewhat ashamed to say I don't really care and think there are far more genuinely and more damaging things to become addicted to.

2 He spent $300 because he was having fun and wanted to have more fun more quickly. If he wasn't having fun he wouldn't have spent $300 at all.

[Shophet Palaiologos]

What the hell did I just read?
OP - welcome to the forum.

[Lady Abstract]

 

Modifié par QU33N_ANG3L, 01 novembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[INVADERONE]

Zjarcal wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...


I respect you for going this route instead of the glitching/cheating route. I spent hours to get my maxed manifest...

Invaderjuan plz, as if that wasn't the case for practically everyone here.

? O....k. Sensitive/Pot Shots much? Yeah, a lot of people have spent tons of hours on maxing their manifest..... not getting your point. Im writing a direct message to the poster, so I directly told him of MY experience. Should I have included you in my response or everyone else? I dont know everyone elses experience nor would I assume.

I do know that many have openly admitted to cheating for their manifest...even looking at the first responses to this thread it almost even reads that there are some who even look down on the guy for not cheating for his manifest. Still though, not understanding your implication that I should have been inclusive in a direct message when I cant foresee what everyone else has done. My assumptions is that most people havent but some have. Either way.... I wouldnt know.

[INVADERONE]

cato_84 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I used to play MP but stopped when I realised that I was just playing for the credits (and another chance at opening a box) rather than actually opening the game

Well, I'd guess your feelings about the game are very different from almost everyone else here. I enjoyed this game at the start when I had no equipment and I still enjoy it now when I've got a maxed manifest.
If you focussed so much on unlocking stuff then no wonder you don't play any more.

Same here. I play for fun and for the after work social aspect. I work a ton of hours and this game is kind of the way I unwind with a few friends. It was something that my best friends and I started years ago when xbox live started. This is kind of our way of keeping in touch too. While we game we talk about each others lives, kids, birthdays, family etc. Its a good social tool and ME3 is coop enough to allow for a lot of the cool social aspect between friends like that.

[hong]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Because of people like him ME4 will come out with a bigger and better multiplayer. The fun will not be hidden because for the "addiction" to start it needs to be fun up front.

1) you are saying that making the game addicting is good, which I find questionable.
2) if the fun wasn't hidden then why did he spend $300 when he could have had just as much fun without it?

For that feeling of progress. Strangely enough, this can also be fun, since "fun" is a very broad term indeed.

"Weeks" was the time I guessed it would have taken a player to unlock gear they want.
I used to play MP but stopped when I realised that I was just playing for the credits (and another chance at opening a box) rather than actually opening the game - as mentioned above, the system is designed to be addicting (random rewards work better in operant conditioning... )

Oh look, armchair psychologist in action.

It's funny you should mention that. I don't really care about maxing my manifest, precisely because of the random element. It's also why I've stopped playing D3 on the PC, at least until the expansion and loot revamp comes out. Spending hours simply to get more pulls of the poker machine lever is not particularly rewarding, and points to a failed implementation of operant conditioning.

Instead, I'm now focusing on increasing my challenge rank. Unlike the manifest, you're guaranteed to make progress every game you play. There is still a random element since you don't know exactly how each match will progress (especially with pugs and U/U settings), but there is also far less frustration involved.

anywhere between $50 - $100 or so is enough to simulate the actual price you'd end up paying if the DLCs hadn't been free

Twice the price of the base game is a fair price for a few MP maps and classes? Seriously?

Twice the price of the base game is a fair price for 1400+ hours of gaming, which is what I've now clocked up. Seriously.

(e.g. All the fun guns take loads of grinding).

Nonsense. Maxing out the ultra-rares take loads of grinding, but the game is perfectly enjoyable without them. What the ultra-rares provide is a better chance of success when playing at higher difficulties, ie, they foster a sense of progress. But if progress is not important to you, which is a conclusion I've inferred from your desire for all the best guns to be immediately available, then they are certainly not required.

I'll bet money that the vast majority of games are still played on silver and bronze, and at those levels, uncommons and rares are good enough. Why, some people will even play gold and platinum with such guns and make it work....

Sure, in the short term paying off Bioware may allow you to enjoy the game more but OP would clearly have been happier if he had been able to access the fun stuff without grinding/paying extra.

But accessing all the best guns immediately would also obviate any sense of progressing further into the game. Which would not be fun.

When the demo was first released the random unlocks were one of the most complained about things, yet Bioware internally decided to keep them (as psychological trick to maximise micro-transaction income, as mentioned above).

That would be due to implementation issues, I think.

After all, they also came out with the challenge rating system several months into the lifetime of the game, which involves far less randomness than the manifest.

Modifié par hong, 01 novembre 2013 - 04:06 .

[Yo Son]

Frostmanus wrote...

mhy_ wrote...

RZIBARA wrote...

you spent $300? you could have bought 4 brand new games for that price. WTF

Also, its not like it helped you all that much either, i have pretty close, if not a better manifest than you with only 120 hours played

people like you are the reason companies put microtransactions in their games

The additional 90 hours I would need to play is a LOT for me. I'm just at 30 hours now, and I feel I've already invested quite heavily (time-wise) in it. 

It's worth noting that we have similar manifests. I have 30 hours, and "bought" 100 hours worth of equipment; you have 120 hours. So we both have 120-130 "hours" worth of equipment.

Well, it's your money. But remember, MP support will drop at the end of this year. That's most likely outcome anyway. I don't know, if it was worth it, in case your manifest isn't maxed up until then. I hope that I am wrong though.

Wtf is this blasphemy

[Tokenusername]

Yo Son wrote...

Frostmanus wrote...

But remember, MP support will drop at the end of this year. That's most likely outcome anyway.

Wtf is this blasphemy

Pure rampant speculation.