447 réponses à ce sujet

[69_Gio_69]

So I have played the whole trillogy, starting with the first one like four years ago. I finished ME3 last year and still to this day I am not satisfied. For me Mass Effect is the best game franchise ever made. It has it's flaws and in times can be boring (endless lines of text, planet searching, dull side quests) but at the same time, I am so invested in it. 

So therefore I replayed the trillogy hoping that it would fill in that unsatisfied feeling by better learning the story. So now I am almost done, and still have this feeling like the story isn't actually finished. And here are a couple reasons why:

- Cerberus: they did a 180 in ME3 becoming total cold killing machines. I know that they are aiming to controlling the reapers, but at the same time I don't understand why they are constantly hindering us. Tuchanka, Omega, Plans for the crucible. What where they after, and how? For me the Cerberus plot isn't finished. There are so many blanks that need to be filled in. And in the end we have TIM that needs US to believe. Why? 

- Leviathan: So this DLC just introduces the most powerfull being known in the whole ME universe and there is a likely chance we never hear of them again? Isn't that just unacceptable? In a DLC (of all things) we find out that there is a God above the Reaper Gods? Another force that has the power to destroy everything and also the power to control organics. Also he tells us he has been studying, and wants to know why Reapers see you as a threat. And by the end of the conversation he understands. Well I don't.. 

- Illusion or reality? I know IT is not to be talked about, but I can't understand why. It has such a big place in the whole trillogy. Everywhere you look there are people being indoctrinated. Hell, the most powerfull weapon of the Reapers is indoctrination. And now there is another group (Leviathans) who also can manipulate. But I think there is more then only that. Especially in ME3 you are constantly reminded, that you died and resurrected. Many times the question comes up if you are actually the real Shepard. There are questions if we can 'trust' the crucible plans. There are questions if we would know if this was a virtual world. Dreams that don't make sense. And I could go on. I have tried to understand, but it can't be more than 'speculation'.

This are a couple of 'problems' I have and are still dealing with. I just want to know what actually happened, because I still believe there is more to it all than we know right now. Then when they say 'shepards story is over' I just can't believe it. They got three whole games to tell us a story. 100+ hours of content. And still, in my opinion, it isn't finished by a long shot. 

Also, where is the 'bad ending'. This is one of the reasons I don't trust the endings to be real. Every ending you choose it is all good and well. I know choice is important, but I can't believe that Bioware wouldn't include a 'bad choice' so to speak. In the end, the reapers can't win. And in a way you always succeed. 

So still hooked to Mass Effect and still trying to understand it all. It saddens me that there is a big chance all these questions will never get an answer. Shepards story isn't over!

 

[YouKnowMyName]

I have little to add to this, other than that I think Leviathan is going to be an element of future MEs, whether people like that or not. Hopefully it won't be the main plot, since we have already dealt with the reapers. But it might be something the next games villain use to achieve his ultimate end/goals.

Maybe the Leviathan will fulfill the role of The Bigger Bad, a threath which is even more menacing than the main threat, but doesn't actively participate in the plot.

Modifié par YouKnowMyName, 31 octobre 2013 - 05:51 .

[Bfler]

69_Gio_69 wrote...

Also, where is the 'bad ending'. This is one of the reasons I don't trust the endings to be real. Every ending you choose it is all good and well. I know choice is important, but I can't believe that Bioware wouldn't include a 'bad choice' so to speak. In the end, the reapers can't win. And in a way you always succeed. 

Except of in Destroy, the Reapers win more or less in every ending.

[Straken-SWE]

69_Gio_69 wrote...
- Cerberus: they did a 180 in ME3 becoming total cold killing machines. I know that they are aiming to controlling the reapers, but at the same time I don't understand why they are constantly hindering us. Tuchanka, Omega, Plans for the crucible. What where they after, and how? For me the Cerberus plot isn't finished. There are so many blanks that need to be filled in. And in the end we have TIM that needs US to believe. Why? 

Isn't cerberus under reaper controll? I mean not only the Illusive man, but on mars one of the soldiers is indoctrinated already. 

But I wonder about the lack of cerberus prescence on for say the citadell overall, the council don't like them fine. But the Normandy can dock without hiding the cerberus colors, and Shepard can just walk around getting the Spectre thing back clearly working with the illusive man.

Bfler wrote...

Except of in Destroy, the Reapers win more or less in every ending.

Doesn't the reapers loose in every ending? if you can say that. their way of destroying evolved races for the sake of order has come to an end

Modifié par Straken-SWE, 31 octobre 2013 - 06:15 .

[69_Gio_69]

It isn't certain if Cerberus is under reaper control. Because there are some contradicting statements. On the one hand, you have Javik who talks about a same type of splinter group in his cycle that obstructed them in fighting the reapers. So this infers they are actually under reaper control.

But on the other hand, you have Reapers also fighting Cerberus at sanctuary. Probably because they have found a way of controlling people themselfs. And so are getting near a Reaper controlling device (I think). So that means they aren't under their control.

And the 'husk' you see on mars isn't a husk made by reapers, but by Cerberus themselfs.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If no ending is good, how can any ending be bad?

[jstme]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

If no ending is good, how can any ending be bad?

If no cookie is delicious,how can all the other cookies taste awful? By being a crappy cookies,actually.

Modifié par jstme, 31 octobre 2013 - 08:16 .

[3DandBeyond]

OP, it's likely that this game series is the one that will always resonate with me, both for what was and what could have been. Much of what we're officially left with is WTF. Take one example-we even cared about more minor characters, some with their own demons but heart. Consider the people we met on the Citadel and the unknown fate they met at the end-Bioware didn't think they mattered. Or, ok consider Aria (whether or not you liked her), Bioware made her the subject of a whole DLC. She hates the Citadel and longs for Omega. You help her take it back and then what? She'd back warming a seat on the Citadel and meets some unknown fate. Heck, even had she been back on Omega, we apparently were never supposed to know what happens to her at the end, so much for retaking Omega, let alone retaking Earth.

The Leviathans. Stupidest most arrogant gigantic squidlike apex species ever. And this, this is why Shepard must make one of those choices. Leviathan sits quaking under the ocean but talks tough when one puny human comes calling--oh great, avoid the effing creatures you're responsible for, Levi, but threaten the human. What amazing intellect and power.

Then we learn Leviathan before the catalyst was all about control. They enthralled other races for tribute (slavery?). They feared synthetics would kill all organics. So, they created a synthetic being that they didn't control well, that continually kills organics and that tried to exterminate them. Great. What brain power. The freaking Leviathan even though scared of the kid and the reapers, seems to accept the kid's solution "there is only the harvest" and says the kid is still following his programming-Leviathan's idiotic programming. I don't know what to be pissed off at more-the fact that these idiots are responsible for this and just hide, or that Shepard seems to think they might actually help, goes to find them, believes they will help, and then never sees them again. What a load of reaper poop.

[AlexMBrennan]

I know choice is important, but I can't believe that Bioware wouldn't include a 'bad choice' so to speak. In the end, the reapers can't win. And in a way you always succeed.

I know, right? Just because Bioware said in an interview (5:10) that there would be a "Reapers win" ending people suddenly expect there to be such an ending! This is madness!

But that's the case for most modern games - as long as you complete the missions (e.g. by not dying) you complete the campaign and defeat the bad guy.
The only exception I can think of right now is Heavy Rain, but I suppose that a 10h of QTE would be aimed at the masochists.

[AlanC9]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I know choice is important, but I can't believe that Bioware wouldn't include a 'bad choice' so to speak. In the end, the reapers can't win. And in a way you always succeed.

I know, right? Just because Bioware said in an interview (5:10) that there would be a "Reapers win" ending people suddenly expect there to be such an ending! This is madness!

But that's the case for most modern games - as long as you complete the missions (e.g. by not dying) you complete the campaign and defeat the bad guy.
The only exception I can think of right now is Heavy Rain, but I suppose that a 10h of QTE would be aimed at the masochists.

Only on BSN would Refuse not be enough of a Reaper win.

Anyway, Shepard doesn't win in Refuse. Liara does.

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 octobre 2013 - 10:36 .

[Excella Gionne]

Low EMS Destroy ending, there you go, a pretty bad ending......or go for refusal.....

[AlanC9]

69_Gio_69 wrote...

It isn't certain if Cerberus is under reaper control. Because there are some contradicting statements. On the one hand, you have Javik who talks about a same type of splinter group in his cycle that obstructed them in fighting the reapers. So this infers they are actually under reaper control.

But on the other hand, you have Reapers also fighting Cerberus at sanctuary. Probably because they have found a way of controlling people themselfs. And so are getting near a Reaper controlling device (I think). So that means they aren't under their control.

And the 'husk' you see on mars isn't a husk made by reapers, but by Cerberus themselfs.

This would be a problem if Indoctrination was like flipping a switch -- one second you're fine, the next minute you're completely a Reaper puppet. It hasn't been shown to work that way, has it?

[Navasha]

AlanC9 wrote...

69_Gio_69 wrote...

It isn't certain if Cerberus is under reaper control. Because there are some contradicting statements. On the one hand, you have Javik who talks about a same type of splinter group in his cycle that obstructed them in fighting the reapers. So this infers they are actually under reaper control.

But on the other hand, you have Reapers also fighting Cerberus at sanctuary. Probably because they have found a way of controlling people themselfs. And so are getting near a Reaper controlling device (I think). So that means they aren't under their control.

And the 'husk' you see on mars isn't a husk made by reapers, but by Cerberus themselfs.

This would be a problem if Indoctrination was like flipping a switch -- one second you're fine, the next minute you're completely a Reaper puppet. It hasn't been shown to work that way, has it?

ME1 taught us that the reapers can determine the level of influence.  The more control the less useful the tool though however.   TIM could very well have been under mild indoctrination the whole time.   Clearly the Prothean VI detected that Kai Leng was indoctrinated.   TIM might have only believed he had "free will" while slowly directing Cereberus to acts the reapers wanted.   The Reaper attack on Sanctuary was likely because someone who wasn't indoctrinated (Miranda's Father) blocking the control signal finally.    Clearly right up to the end TIM believed he wasn't indoctrinated, when clearly he was. 

[SwobyJ]

jstme wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

If no ending is good, how can any ending be bad?

If no cookie is delicious,how can all the other cookies taste awful? By being a crappy cookies,actually.

Yep.

Bad Choices - youtu.be/o_1pKkDIf0E

I'm self-destructing I admit
I make so, many bad, bad choices
Here's the thing, that I admit
I always know they're bad choices
I make bad, bad choices
I make so, many choices



To OP: Shepard's Story is over. Mass Effect is not. ME2 explained/retconned away stuff in ME1. ME3 explained/retconned away stuff in ME2.

I'm hoping that the next game will explain/retcon (though prefer no outright retcon) away stuff in ME1-3 overall.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 31 octobre 2013 - 11:35 .

[mass perfection]

Mass Effect was a failed propaganda attempt by the globalists. Nothing more.

[Obadiah]

@69_Gio_69
With respect to Cerberus:

Cerberus' goal was to hinder Shepard's attempts to unite the Council races and destroy the Reapers. That is why it is on Tuchanka, the Citadel, and Thessia. TIM wants Shepard to fail so that he can control the Reapers and uplift humanity. An he is willing to sacrifice a lot of people to achieve his objective.

Cerberus' actions encompass all three choices that Shepard has at the end, shows the potential evils that can come of them, and acts as the direct counter-argument to all.

[AlanC9]

SwobyJ wrote...


Bad Choices - youtu.be/o_1pKkDIf0E

I got a "blocked for copyright in your country" notice from that; nice work, WMG. Anyone else? I'm in the USA.

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 novembre 2013 - 02:03 .

[dreamgazer]

AlanC9 wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...


Bad Choices - youtu.be/o_1pKkDIf0E

I got a "blocked for copyright in your country" notice from that; nice work, WMG. Anyone else? I'm in the USA.

Yep. Seems like WMG made a ... bad choice in the matter.

[TheBlackBaron]

The Levithans will probably come up in the next Mass Effect trilogy. Having saved the galaxy from the mecha-cuttlefish, we'll now need to save the galaxy from their organic predecessors. The first task will be to discover what a rogue Spectre is doing hanging out with the Leviathan scout known as Suzerainty.

[Tsunami Chef]

IT is not to be looked at because it's obviously not what the authors intended...unless Bioware was attempting a massive campaign with the objective being getting the gaming community to hate them. Mass Effect is a conventional game...the real ending is out there enough, but the IT ending doesn't fix it in any way...unless you fix a car by repairing the whole thing and then leave the wheels off (What actually happens after IT). Idk...i'm satisfied...but I looked at Me3 as a bang for my buck, not the culmination of everything i've ever done in the ME universe. Bioware may have failed on making a great ME game, but the game itself is awesome outside of the plot inconsistincies (some of which are true, most of which are IT fans nitpicking the **** out of everything and asking questions that most people who paid attention could answer, or most people didn't even think of until someone went through the entire story and labeled "Unanswered things" as "plotholes"). If you can't get past it ruining your ME verse than stop thinking about it.....and go with the comfort of knowing that very few things, if anything, has a truly satisfying ending.

I waited to play ME3 until after the citadel DLC was released and everything else though, so maybe my opinion is different....The ending is definitely a downpoint, but there are few games, if any, that I can remember being as satisfied while I was playing through the main story.

Modifié par Tsunami Chef, 01 novembre 2013 - 06:18 .