447 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's not a jarring clash at all.

The ultimate villain should be very physically non-threatening and speak in very simple, non-technical language. It's the way God would appear. Or Satan. 

Especially for the endings to work.

If the Catalyst sounded like a Reaper I don't think people would be so amenable to what he says.

Well, seeing as most people are *not* amenable to it now and are expressly suspect of its chosen form?

I'd say it doesn't work.

DA:A didn't employ this tactic. The Architect is slightly different, but not far off from the rest of the Darkspawn.

[David7204]

They're just projecting their unhappiness onto made-up reasons.

[GreyLycanTrope]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
I disagree. I think people seeing it as a character leads down a slippery-slope of expecations that come with that.

In the Catalyst's case, it's the expectation for it to be consistent with the Reapers' prior characterization...

... when in truth, it was put there (by the writers) as a glorified user-interface.

Arguing writer's intent in this case will get you no where unless you actually were on the writing team and know for certain what the intention was. Regardless of what one might think of the writers intentions the finished product of the Catalyst is still very much a character like it or not, if it's sole purpose was exposition it wouldn't have different varients on it's speeches, nor be the thing responsible for the creation of the prime antagonists.

[Steelcan]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's not a jarring clash at all.

The ultimate villain should be very physically non-threatening and speak in very simple, non-technical language. It's the way God would appear. Or Satan. 

Especially for the endings to work.

If the Catalyst sounded like a Reaper I don't think people would be so amenable to what he says.

Well, seeing as most people are *not* amenable to it now and are expressly suspect of its chosen form?

I'd say it doesn't work.

DA:A didn't employ this tactic. The Architect is slightly different, but not far off from the rest of the Darkspawn.

I'm not saying that they were succesful at it, but do you think many people would pick Synthesis if a Sovrein/Harbyesque voice was telling them about how its an scension?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This would have been a better ending

[Deathsaurer]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Isn't that basically double-speak, considering your issue with the Catalyst is that it's not developed enough?

Not at all. I don't think any of them are developed enough. I want to see the horrors that made them think this was the best course of action. I want them to have depth. To feel like living beings instead of excuse plot factories. I don't want them to necessarily be right BUT I want them to have something legitimate in their backstory that makes you question it just a little. What if they're right? What if...

I'll give you one thing, though: coming to us as ventboy makes the Catalyst very hard to take seriously. Associating a little boy with the Reapers is such a pretty jarring clash of characterization. I wonder how much of the problem is just visceral.

Never had a problem with it. Always assumed it was trying to appear non threatening.

I disagree. I think people seeing it as a character leads down a slippery-slope of expecations that come with that.

I find that lazy TBH.

In the Catalyst's case, it's the expectation for it to be consistent with the Reapers' prior characterization...

I don't. Where does that leave me?

... when in truth, it was put there (by the writers) as a glorified user-interface.

No problems here...

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's not a jarring clash at all.

The ultimate villain should be very physically non-threatening and speak in very simple, non-technical language. It's the way God would appear. Or Satan. 

Especially for the endings to work.

If the Catalyst sounded like a Reaper I don't think people would be so amenable to what he says.

Well, seeing as most people are *not* amenable to it now and are expressly suspect of its chosen form?

I'd say it doesn't work.

DA:A didn't employ this tactic. The Architect is slightly different, but not far off from the rest of the Darkspawn.

I'm not saying that they were succesful at it, but do you think many people would pick Synthesis if a Sovrein/Harbyesque voice was telling them about how its an scension?

It couldn't be more annoying than a subpar prepubescent actor telling us about it.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 novembre 2013 - 02:31 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Arguing writer's intent in this case will get you no where unless you actually were on the writing team and know for certain what the intention was. Regardless of what one might think of the writers intentions the finished product of the Catalyst is still very much a character like it or not, if it's sole purpose was exposition it wouldn't have different varients on it's speeches, nor be the thing responsible for the creation of the prime antagonists.

Does reading the leaked script qualify?

[KaiserShep]

It's not a matter of whether or not it's annoying, but rather which one people are more inclined to buy its story from. If Harbinger itself came to the Citadel and started blathering on about organics and synthetics in its booming evil machine god voice, like the destroyer on Rannoch, it'd be begging for another renegade interrupt, this time pointing at the power conduit.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Steelcan wrote...

I'm not saying that they were succesful at it, but do you think many people would pick Synthesis if a Sovrein/Harbyesque voice was telling them about how its an scension?

How about neither? No kid, no Reaper.

A hologram, like Vigil, only fully functional.

Also given a plain, emotionless, machine voice. True neutral.

[Steelcan]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I'm not saying that they were succesful at it, but do you think many people would pick Synthesis if a Sovrein/Harbyesque voice was telling them about how its an scension?

How about neither? No kid, no Reaper.

A hologram, like Vigil, only fully functional.

Also given a plain, emotionless, machine voice. True neutral.

If I'd had my way there wouldn't be one at all

[KaiserShep]

I would've preferred a neutral hologram like Vigil too with no kid voice.

Steelcan wrote...
If I'd had my way there wouldn't be one at all

I guess that means no choices either. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 08 novembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Steelcan wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I'm not saying that they were succesful at it, but do you think many people would pick Synthesis if a Sovrein/Harbyesque voice was telling them about how its an scension?

How about neither? No kid, no Reaper.

A hologram, like Vigil, only fully functional.

Also given a plain, emotionless, machine voice. True neutral.

If I'd had my way there wouldn't be one at all

Okay....

... good talk. 

[Steelcan]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I'm not saying that they were succesful at it, but do you think many people would pick Synthesis if a Sovrein/Harbyesque voice was telling them about how its an scension?

How about neither? No kid, no Reaper.

A hologram, like Vigil, only fully functional.

Also given a plain, emotionless, machine voice. True neutral.

If I'd had my way there wouldn't be one at all

Okay....

... good talk. 

lol

Why do you think another Vigil would have worked?  A clinical mechanical entity might not be sympathetic enough

[KaiserShep]

Is anyone sympathetic toward the holographic child? It's obviously not the boy from earth. It's just a front for the deathbots, siphoning images from Shepard's mind for its interface.

A god child figure is undoubtedly obnoxious. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 08 novembre 2013 - 04:25 .

[Br3admax]

I don't think that the Catalyst's problem is that he doesn't have a neutral sounding voice or a neutral look.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Steelcan wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I'm not saying that they were succesful at it, but do you think many people would pick Synthesis if a Sovrein/Harbyesque voice was telling them about how its an scension?

How about neither? No kid, no Reaper.

A hologram, like Vigil, only fully functional.

Also given a plain, emotionless, machine voice. True neutral.

If I'd had my way there wouldn't be one at all

Okay....

... good talk. 

lol

Why do you think another Vigil would have worked?  A clinical mechanical entity might not be sympathetic enough

I think the dissonance between [sympathetic-figure] and [Reapers] is what throws people off w/ this Catalyst.

It would never be fully trusted, but at least the feeling of emotional-manipulation is removed.

JMO!

[David7204]

It's interesting that people seem to be resentful of supposed emotional manipulation when there seems to be a general consensus that replacing the Catalyst with Ashley or Kaidan or Anderson or whatever would be an improvement.

Modifié par David7204, 08 novembre 2013 - 04:31 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting that people seem to be resentful of supposed emotional manipulation when there seems to be a general consensus that replacing the Catalyst with Ashley or Kaidan or Anderson or whatever would be an improvement.

No.


The best idea would be a complete removal

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting that people seem to be resentful of supposed emotional manipulation when there seems to be a general consensus that replacing the Catalyst with Ashley or Kaidan or Anderson or whatever would be an improvement.

I resent being shot; being shot in the hand would still be an improvement to being shot in the face. 

Fallicious argument is fallicious. 

[KaiserShep]

I wouldn't consider that an improvement at all.

[David7204]

No matter what else happens, there really needs to be a final confrontation between Shepard and the Reapers.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

No matter what else happens, there really needs to be a final confrontation between Shepard and the Reapers.

Why?  The story was never really about what the Reapers wanted or their goal, it was about stopping them.  Not having a final confrontation would have been a good way to keep this going as well as keep the Reaper's aura of mystery.

[David7204]

No, it would have been stupid.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting that people seem to be resentful of supposed emotional manipulation when there seems to be a general consensus that replacing the Catalyst with Ashley or Kaidan or Anderson or whatever would be an improvement.

I don't remember that being any "consensus." Only that, if the Catalyst's image really was to be something we'd feel sympathetic to, that those characters would work much better for that purpose. But it is just one idea of many on this topic.

I'm not even speaking for myself on the "manipulation"-nonsense. Personally, I couldn't care less about that "issue."