447 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

@Mcfly616
As, you can see, if people WANT to have unanswered questions and be unsatisfied, no amount of clear-headed indication of the obvious answers will alleviate their malcontent.

Modifié par Obadiah, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[KaiserShep]

The reapers were knocked around by the magical crucible wave, not a regular explosion.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[KaiserShep]

Mcfly616 wrote...
How did Shepard survive? "A stubborn enough person can survive just about anything. Rage is a hell of an anesthetic." —Zaeed Massani

A more reasonable explanation would simply be that whatever system was in place to project the mass effect field around the tower's base was still intact and even took the brunt of the blast and debris, much like how some buildings on the Citadel that we see in the post-destroy slide still have power, despite the devastation in some parts. Of course, this doesn't account for the infamous walking toward the exploding power conduit thing, but I always saw that as more of dramatic nonsense anyway.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:17 .

[Mcfly616]

iakus wrote...

And where did TIM get the resources to build a navy capable of invading Sur'Kesh while occupying Omega, invading Grissom Academy, maintaining Sanctuary, etc?  Did they find teh Star Forge beyond the Omega IV relay?

they have wealthy contributors from all over the Galaxy. And its huge massive galaxy. Not to mention, Cerberus has always had a Military branch. Just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Snake, sure.  Traitor?  Not so much.  Face it, Bioware saw Udina wasn't a popular character so turned him evil.  Jacob suffered a similar fate.

Face it, you don't know what Bioware "saw". So let's drop that. Secondly, if Udina thought he was doing it for Humanity, then maybe he didn't see himself as a traitor. After all, the other Counsel species weren't helping us. He could've felt the human species' back was against a wall. Hell, I might call Udina a snake and a schemer. But I'm not so sure he's evil. And I'm damn sure Jacob isn't, so....nice analogy.

Poor representation of PTSD and thre's no such thing as destiny.  What else?

That's your opinion. Nothing more. Unless you've experienced plenty of PTSD, in that case, you'd know a thing or two.

No such thing as "Destiny"? A fair amount of the human race would disagree with you. Then again, that's also nothing more than your opinion. On the otherhand, I'll just disagree with you in terms of fiction. In which case you're completely incorrect. Destiny is ever-present in fiction. What else?

That's...that's "check your brain at the door" bad as far as explanations go 

hmm yeah, I wonder how many times in fiction where they imply the character survived but didn't go into a detailed explaination as to how......so, I guess we need to check our brains at the door after we kill Saren and then he starts frog jumping all over, or during the Lazarus Project.....or, hey let's go to another recent and highly acclaimed fictional narrative of interactive entertainment: early in The Last of Us, how in the hell does Joel survive when he gets impaled straight through his abdomen by a pole of rebar. Yeaaaaaaah right.

It's funny, there's these people that say they "don't play games for realism, but for escapism. Life is depressing enough". You know, the ones that specifically complain that Shepard is (realistically) helpless in regards to his own life at the end of the game. Yet, these same people complain when his survival isn't explained in realistic terms.....Seems they want to have their cake and eat it too.

We should be checking our brains at the door before we step into any fictional universe. Especially videogames. No matter how far its come as a story-telling medium, its still not on the level of books and movies.

[Mcfly616]

KaiserShep wrote...

but I always saw that as more of dramatic nonsense anyway.

indeed. This one comprehends fictional story-telling. (Visual)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:21 .

[dreamgazer]

Mcfly616 wrote...

hmm yeah, I wonder how many times in fiction where they imply the character survived but didn't go into a detailed explaination as to how......so, I guess we need to check our brains at the door after we kill Saren and then he starts frog jumping all over, or during the Lazarus Project.....or, hey let's go to another recent and highly acclaimed fictional narrative of interactive entertainment: early in The Last of Us, how in the hell does Joel survive when he gets impaled straight through his abdomen by a pole of rebar. Yeaaaaaaah right.

It's funny, there's these people that say they "don't play games for realism, but for escapism. Life is depressing enough". You know, the ones that specifically complain that Shepard is (realistically) helpless in regards to his own life at the end of the game. Yet, these same people complain when his survival isn't explained in realistic terms.....Seems they want to have their cake and eat it too.

We should be checking our brains at the door before we step into any fictional universe. Especially videogames. No matter how far its come as a story-telling medium, its still not on the level of books and movies.

I understand where you're coming from and don't exactly disagree with you in principle, but there's a difference between those things and ...





The execution of this is well off the mark.  People are fine with connecting their own dots, but they'd prefer to have a few more connected for them so they can actually make out how the picture's supposed to look. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:29 .

[KaiserShep]

It's too bad that this stuff didn't get revised along with a lot of other things in the Extended Cut, because there's an obvious discrepancy between the state of the Citadel in the destroy slides and that scene where it sends the beam to the relay. You can clearly see the connection between the arm and the presidium ring being severed in the explosion, but the station seems far more intact in the slide, with smaller portions broken off.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 04 novembre 2013 - 03:31 .

[Mcfly616]

Obadiah wrote...

@Mcfly616
As, you can see, if people WANT to have unanswered questions and be unsatisfied, no amount of clear-headed indication of the obvious answers will alleviate their malcontent.

its the norm on the BSN. I do it for myself anyway. I find it entertaining to be able to logically explain things with little more than the information the game provides. Within fictional universes (especially the sci fi genre) some things aren't entirely explainable in real world terms. That should always be expected.

[Mcfly616]

KaiserShep wrote...

It's too bad that this stuff didn't get revised along with a lot of other things in the Extended Cut, because there's an obvious discrepancy between the state of the Citadel in the destroy slides and that scene where it sends the beam to the relay. You can clearly see the connection between the arm and the presidium ring being severed in the explosion, but the station seems far more intact in the slide, with smaller portions broken off.

I can understand that. However, have you ever seen something in your life (in person or on tv), where something looks waaaay worse than it turns out to be. Like, its still pretty F'n bad.....but it couldve been worse? Those type of occurences. Maybe it's like that.


Like a football player that takes a helmet to the knee and cartwheels out of bounds. Everybody is damn sure its torn ligaments or a broken leg....but after a few moments of tension, he limps off under his own power. Or when a guy is in a high speed chase going 100+ mph, and gets blindsided by an 18 wheeler, only to hop out of his car and continue evading on foot.

That Citadel aftermath slide looks pretty damn bad to me. Like, really really bad. The explosion just looked worse. Maybe it was just a case of looking much worse than it actually was.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Whether you're good at it or not, no amount of logic will help. People need catharsis. There's not enough emotional information to make it work for some.

and that's totally understandable. I was there once. Many tend to forget (or just aren't even aware) that I used to hate the endings. I spoke very passionately about it as well. I'm thankful that I eventually got catharsis. And I recognize the unfortunate fact that some never will.

[KaiserShep]

The Citadel aftermath slide looks bad, but from what I can tell, plenty of buildings appear intact enough to house survivors, and do have power. Given what we know about technology in the MEU, and that a gaping hole leading out into space does not automatically mean that the atmosphere was evacuated through it, it's just as easy to assume that quite a lot survived too.

[crimzontearz]

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Whether you're good at it or not, no amount of logic will help. People need catharsis. There's not enough emotional information to make it work for some.

and that's totally understandable. I was there once. Many tend to forget (or just aren't even aware) that I used to hate the endings. I spoke very passionately about it as well. I'm thankful that I eventually got catharsis. And I recognize the unfortunate fact that some never will.

and that is only half the problem anyway....

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Whether you're good at it or not, no amount of logic will help. People need catharsis. There's not enough emotional information to make it work for some.

and that's totally understandable. I was there once. Many tend to forget (or just aren't even aware) that I used to hate the endings. I spoke very passionately about it as well. I'm thankful that I eventually got catharsis. And I recognize the unfortunate fact that some never will.

Cool. Same here. I think the Citadel DLC helped me there. Both in subtle ways and not so subtle. There were cathartic messages with the Jack romance I had. And there were funny things like this:

The Cision Gallant

Ever want to experience danger from the safety of your own skycar? Ever need to explore the vast reaches of the unknown and be home in time for dinner? The Cision Gallant can take you there. Strong, silent, and willing to charge into battle along the most exclusive boulevards.

"You Can Breath [sic] Easy With Cision Motors." -Manager Snacol Vennher, Cision Motors

a lot of people needed catharsis in terms of their crew and squadmates. I needed more information and catharsis pertaining to the bigger picture: the Galaxy. The species in it. And the future I created for them. The EC gave me that. Then the Citadel DLC was the icing on the cake, with it's much needed light hearted touch.

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...

they have wealthy contributors from all over the Galaxy. And its huge massive galaxy. Not to mention, Cerberus has always had a Military branch. Just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Throwing money at a situation doesn't magically create a fleet of cruisers able to take on home fleets of entire star empires. 

Face it, you don't know what Bioware "saw". So let's drop that. Secondly, if Udina thought he was doing it for Humanity, then maybe he didn't see himself as a traitor. After all, the other Counsel species weren't helping us. He could've felt the human species' back was against a wall. Hell, I might call Udina a snake and a schemer. But I'm not so sure he's evil. And I'm damn sure Jacob isn't, so....nice analogy.

No, we don't know what Biwoare saw.  And they didn't see fit to tell us either.  Heck, it's never even determined if Udina was indoctrinated or not.

But hey, "lots of speculations for everyone" amirite?

No such thing as "Destiny"? A fair amount of the human race would disagree with you. Then again, that's also nothing more than your opinion. On the otherhand, I'll just disagree with you in terms of fiction. In which case you're completely incorrect. Destiny is ever-present in fiction. What else?

"I fight for freedom, mine and everyone's.  I fight for the right to choose our own fate"

The whole freaking trilogy is about breaking cycles and self-determination.

hmm yeah, I wonder how many times in fiction where they imply the character survived but didn't go into a detailed explaination as to how......so, I guess we need to check our brains at the door after we kill Saren and then he starts frog jumping all over, or during the Lazarus Project.....or, hey let's go to another recent and highly acclaimed fictional narrative of interactive entertainment: early in The Last of Us, how in the hell does Joel survive when he gets impaled straight through his abdomen by a pole of rebar. Yeaaaaaaah right.

Saren was clearly dead, and his cybernetics served to make his corpse the sock puppet of Sovereign.

Yeah the Lazarus Project was poor storytelling too.

I have not played The Last of Us so I will not comment on that

It's funny, there's these people that say they "don't play games for realism, but for escapism. Life is depressing enough". You know, the ones that specifically complain that Shepard is (realistically) helpless in regards to his own life at the end of the game. Yet, these same people complain when his survival isn't explained in realistic terms.....Seems they want to have their cake and eat it too.

Faceless torso drawing a breath =/= clarity or closure.

We should be checking our brains at the door before we step into any fictional universe. Especially videogames. No matter how far its come as a story-telling medium, its still not on the level of books and movies.

There is so much wrong with this sentance I don't even know where to begin

[KaiserShep]

iakus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

they have wealthy contributors from all over the Galaxy. And its huge massive galaxy. Not to mention, Cerberus has always had a Military branch. Just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Throwing money at a situation doesn't magically create a fleet of cruisers able to take on home fleets of entire star empires. 

This would certainly be true of Cerberus in a galaxy that is enjoying a period of relative peace, but during a full-out war with the reapers, an organization with enough resources and opportunity can exploit the chaos and disorganization and potentially do quite a lot of damage.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 04 novembre 2013 - 04:33 .

[AlanC9]

Mcfly616 wrote...

It's funny, there's these people that say they "don't play games for realism, but for escapism. Life is depressing enough". You know, the ones that specifically complain that Shepard is (realistically) helpless in regards to his own life at the end of the game. Yet, these same people complain when his survival isn't explained in realistic terms.....Seems they want to have their cake and eat it too.

We should be checking our brains at the door before we step into any fictional universe. Especially videogames. No matter how far its come as a story-telling medium, its still not on the level of books and movies.

I think it's not so much that games haven't evolved as a medium, it's that gamers don't interpret games the same way they interpret films. Some things in cinema's bag of tricks get misinterpreted when they're in a game. I imagine Bio's going to go to more of an Oliver Stone style in the future, pounding their intended meaning into the head of every singke viewer.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

I think it's not so much that games haven't evolved as a medium, it's that gamers don't interpret games the same way they interpret films. Some things in cinema's bag of tricks get misinterpreted when they're in a game. I imagine Bio's going to go to more of an Oliver Stone style in the future, pounding their intended meaning into the head of every singke viewer.

And if they do that, they've learned nothing.

Because whatever Mac Walters claims, film and games are not the same thing.

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...

I think it's not so much that games haven't evolved as a medium, it's that gamers don't interpret games the same way they interpret films. Some things in cinema's bag of tricks get misinterpreted when they're in a game. I imagine Bio's going to go to more of an Oliver Stone style in the future, pounding their intended meaning into the head of every singke viewer.

I think it's that games mash-up genres in a way that films can't because of basic things like length and audience involvement. A film that wants to grimly portray the futility of war doesn't co-exist in with a Zack Snyder 300-like portrayal of glorified acrobatic violence, but video games often do. 

[Iakus]

KaiserShep wrote...

This would certainly be true of Cerberus in a galaxy that is enjoying a period of relative peace, but during a full-out war with the reapers, an organization with enough resources and opportunity can exploit the chaos and disorganization and potentially do quite a lot of damage.

The salarians hadn't gotten involved in the war yet, and Cerberus still managed to raid an STG facility on Sur'Kesh.

And when Hackett finally dropped the hammer on them at Cronos Station, it still took a significan portion of the human fleets to take them down.

That a private organization like Cerberus, no matter how wealthy, had even one cruiser is pretty fantastical.

It would take resources of Star Forge proportions to justify that big a buildup.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

Throwing money at a situation doesn't magically create a fleet of cruisers able to take on home fleets of entire star empires.  

Who ever said that they "took on" anybody's home fleet? They didn't do that at Sur'Kesh, except in the same sense that the Mumbai terrorists "took on" the Indian Army.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

And if they do that, they've learned nothing.

Because whatever Mac Walters claims, film and games are not the same thing.

What's the difference?

[KaiserShep]

Why would it be fantastical for them to have any cruisers at all? What's so special about them? Hell even some refugees were able to salvage an Alliance Cruiser (the SSV London) somehow. Of course, we don't have a whole lot of details as to how they acquired all of that equipment, and we can just as well assume that quite a lot of things are generic, third-party hardware that's been repurposed. Some of their weapons are exactly that anyway, like the Harrier and Raptor. 

I'm assuming that your gripe with Cerberus goes as far back as the beginning of ME2, as Cerberus should not have multiple space stations either, judging by your statements (of which we know for certain are at least 3: one in which the Lazarus project took place, the jumping off point to Freedom's Progress, and wherever TIM is), nor should the Normandy exist.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 04 novembre 2013 - 04:58 .

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
I think it's that games mash-up genres in a way that films can't because of basic things like length and audience involvement. A film that wants to grimly portray the futility of war doesn't co-exist in with a Zack Snyder 300-like portrayal of glorified acrobatic violence, but video games often do. 

I've often heard something like that was a problem with ME3's ending, come to think of it - mashing up 2001-style pseudoprofundity with an action-adventure story. Of course, I just call that Star Trek, or maybe The Matrix if we jack up the mumbo-jumbo level a bit, so this version of the argument never had any force for me.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 novembre 2013 - 05:01 .