157 réponses à ce sujet

[BridgeBurner]

Cloak deserves a few changes...

Firstly, only the first attack should infer a damage bonus; if you melee, shoot or use a power, then ONLY that damage type gains the bonus, not all sources of damage.

Secondly, the cooldown needs to matter. It's just not balanced having a power that allows other powers to be spammed freely *with a damage boost* on such a short cooldown. Make the cooldown relevant again and it moves closer to being balanced.

Thirdly, duration evos should matter. If duration, gave, say, extra duration AND extended the duration of the damage bonus (but not the actual damage bonus itself) it would be a much more attractive prospect. The power could even be reworked so that you can choose damage for sniping; a massive damage boost for one shot only, or a more moderate damage boost for several seconds... But I stress, that Snipers should NOT be balanced around needing cloak in order to OHK enemies. Headshotting with a javelin should kill the enemy regardless of whether or not you are invisible when you fire...

Finally, I'd like to see some sort of trade off... most powers which are far weaker than TC have a trade off and TC has none. Make TC consume a portion of shield energy and delay shield regen each time it is used. There are many kits which can deal damage with weapons and powers which do not need to be spamming TC, so arguing that infiltrators need TC all the time is ridiculous. TC should be used intelligently instead of spammed all the time. Just like you don't run around spamming incinerate on shielded targets, neither should you be spamming TC when it is not prudent to do so.



Quite why people are still arguing that TC is balanced is beyond me. Especially when these individuals are short on empirical evidence to suggest that the power is balanced.

Take a QMI versus a QME, for instance. The QMI is the better boss killer, as he doesn't lose a cooldown by casting tac scan and gets a hefty damage bonus into the bargain, that the QME does not get.

The QMI is also the better mook killer, as a single arc grenade (specced for damage, the non-upgraded radius is stupidly big) will do 80% more damage, in addition to any weapon you are firing also doing 80% more damage; which more than compensates for the relatively small amount of damage that a tech burst or FE will do; both of which take longer to pull off. The QMI can even tac scan one of the mooks if he wants; a luxury that the QME cannot afford.

Whatever way you slice it, the QMI is an OBJECTIVELY better character than the QME is, as his theoretical and actual damage is much higher whilst requiring none of the timing (or luck in the case of projectile powers) that the QME does to land his TE... which does less damage anyway.

There's a reason why people call them "winfiltrators". Whatever a SE can do, the SI does better. Etc.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Not really much, but don't forget, TC does prevent you from regen'ing shields. That would be its only trade off, as far as I can see.

[Cyonan]

Annomander pls.

Tech Bursts and Fire Explosions out damage the extra 80% from TC even on Bronze.

Although I like the actual ideas you posted for changing it.

[Deerber]

Cyonan wrote...

Annomander pls.

Tech Bursts and Fire Explosions out damage the extra 80% from TC even on Bronze.

Although I like the actual ideas you posted for changing it.

Except the fact that a 6+6 FE/TB has, as far as I know, 4 m radius, while an arc grenade, and therefore the 80% damage bonus, has 8, or even 10.4 m radius.

So Anno is actually perfectly right. Noone saying that the QME is better than the QMI is in his right mind.

Edit: plus, against shields, which is the most common protection of mooks, the kind of enemy Anno is talking about, and the one arc grenades are supposed to take care of, the 80% bonus from TC is pretty much equal to the damage of a tech burst on silver. Still lower on gold, but definitely higher on bronze, if you account for evo 6 and base multipliers. FEs against shields have no chance of comparison whatsoever even on platinum.

Modifié par Deerber, 04 novembre 2013 - 10:14 .

[Tokenusername]

Annomander wrote...

Finally, I'd like to see some sort of trade off... most powers which are far weaker than TC have a trade off and TC has none.

That's not entirely true. Natural shield regen is halted while TC is active. Certainly not an equal trade, but it is there.

[Cyonan]

Deerber wrote...

Except the fact that a 6+6 FE has, as far as I know, 4 m radius, while an arc grenade, and therefore the 80% damage bonus, has 8, or even 10.4 m radius.

So Anno is actually perfectly right. Noone saying that the QME is better than the QMI is in his right mind.

You're talking about 320/640 damage in a 8 meter radius vs 1687.5(on Gold) in a 4 meter radius. Don't forget that the QME does still hit the base Arc Grenade in the 8 meter radius and he does a bit more damage with it if he's specced for power damage from his passive while the QMI goes for weapon damage.

It is actually an incorrect statement to claim one is objectively better than the other. You can say that you prefer one, or even that a lot or most people prefer one, but you can't stay that one is better than the other.

The QMI is a very strong character, but the QME is no slouch when it comes to Gold and he can very much hold his own against his Infiltrator brother.

Modifié par Cyonan, 04 novembre 2013 - 10:20 .

[Kalas Magnus]

no

[Deerber]

Cyonan wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Except the fact that a 6+6 FE has, as far as I know, 4 m radius, while an arc grenade, and therefore the 80% damage bonus, has 8, or even 10.4 m radius.

So Anno is actually perfectly right. Noone saying that the QME is better than the QMI is in his right mind.

You're talking about 320/640 damage in a 8 meter radius vs 1687.5(on Gold) in a 4 meter radius. Don't forget that the QME does still hit the base Arc Grenade in the 8 meter radius and he does a bit more damage with it if he's specced for power damage from his passive while the QMI goes for weapon damage.

It is actually an incorrect statement to claim one is objectively better than the other. You can say that you prefer one, or even that a lot or most people prefer one, but you can't stay that one is better than the other.

The QMI is a very strong character, but the QME is no slouch when it comes to Gold and he can very much hold his own against his Infiltrator brother.

Who specs for weapon damage on the infiltrator?  I surely don't. Gimme moaaaaaarrr grinade damage.

By the way, 1687 on gold is against shields, so you forgot to add evo 6 which turns the 320 into a respectable 1120.

And yes, I do much prefer 1120 more damage in a 10.4 m radius than a 1687 a second later in a 4 m radius.

And that's not even going into the 80% more weapon damage from cloak, which obviously makes the QMI killing power skyrocket against armored targets.

But yeah, nothing is objective in this world. That said, as far as a single person opinion can be objective, the QMI is actually quite a lot better than the QME. The QME can hold his own, but... There's not much else he can do. He'll always be behind, struggling to reach the power of his big brother.

But, as always, just my 2 cents.

Modifié par Deerber, 04 novembre 2013 - 10:37 .

[Cyonan]

Deerber wrote...

Who specs for weapon damage on the infiltrator?  I surely don't. Gimme moaaaaaarrr grinade damage.

By the way, 1687 on gold is against shields, so you forgot to add evo 6 which turns the 320 into a respectable 1120.

And yes, I do much prefer 1120 more damage in a 10.4 m radius than a 1687 a second later in a 4 m radius.

But yeah, nothing is objective in this world. That said, as far as a single person opinion can be objective, the QMI is actually quite a lot better than the QME. The QME can hold his own, but... There's not much else he can do. He'll always be behind, struggling to reach the power of his big brother.

But, as always, my 2 cents.

I take weapon damage at least at rank 4 on the QMI because in my opinion the extra weapon damage vs bosses will help him a lot more than overkilling trash mob shields by a slightly larger amount. Especially if you're taking shield damage on Arc Grenades, then they do fairly weak damage vs armour for a grenade.

The QME still does 1687.5 vs 320 to armour, or 1688 vs 1120 to shields/barriers. I also see no reason to take radius on Arc Grenade, as 8 meters is already a very large radius.

I would say they're about equal as far as Gold goes, while the QMI pulls ahead in Platinum because that's more of a single target DPS race of which Tactical Cloak beats out combo spam.

Although on Gold I would take an Arc, Lift, Inferno, or Cluster Grenade spammer any day over any of the Infiltrators except the Quarian Male who has Arc Grenades.

[Tokenusername]

Deerber wrote...

But yeah, nothing is objective in this world.

Doesn't that statement itself lack subjectivity?

Also, I spec for weapon damage on the QMI.

[Cyonan]

Tokenusername wrote...

Deerber wrote...

But yeah, nothing is objective in this world.

Doesn't that statement itself lack subjectivity?

Also, I spec for weapon damage on the QMI.

Also, if we're being technical it's an objective fact that the Earth has a gravitational field as of me typing this post.

It's not your opinion that there is gravity. It's simply there.

[IanLai]

Deerber wrote...

IanLai wrote...

if you want to talk about  phasic ammo/disruptor than yes
if you talk about procesed collector captain, than need head shot + ammo power

claymore properly need to get all pellet hit on bodyshot

Again, wat.

A clean claymore headshot kills each and every humanoid sized enemy in the game, even on platinum and without any ammo. Why you wouldn't use ammo, by the way, is beyond me...

The Javelin needs ammo to get OHK on possessed collectors, otherwise a headshot is all that's required.

I really don't see what you're talking about.

i don't see why you  wat again?
i don't see what is the difference between your wording and my wording?
i said if you use phasic/ disurptor you can with javalein, HS with processed captain
all pellet hit with claymore you can.

and what you are saying are the same
so what is the point of your wat . i only feel your disatisfaction?
 i never mentioned about difficulties, so why i must use equipment?

Modifié par IanLai, 05 novembre 2013 - 04:36 .

[IanLai]

Tokenusername wrote...

Deerber wrote...

But yeah, nothing is objective in this world.

Doesn't that statement itself lack subjectivity?

Also, I spec for weapon damage on the QMI.

me 2

Modifié par IanLai, 04 novembre 2013 - 11:16 .

[DcIhNaGv3z]

The list of "OP" kits and weapons is very long. There are so many OP options available, its starting to get silly calling something OP.

[bondiboy]

Interesting that the devs made the new infiltrator kits even more wicked with the shotgun and AR damage bonuses on top of the existing 80% damage bonus. They obviously were not convinced that the infiltrators were not balanced. At least with the sniper rifle bonus you had to actually learn to aim to take advantage of the extra weapon bonus.

Still think the simplest change would be to drop the damage ev to 10 % and keep the duration as is.

[valium]

cloak should only boost damage of sniper rifles

[Cyonan]

valium wrote...

cloak should only boost damage of sniper rifles

That does absolutely nothing except limit build variety.

[Jaun Shepard]

Cloak should have a cool down which does not depend on the time you stay cloaked. Only on weight.
Though this would still mean Hurricane winfiltratrs would be top dogs.

[Cyonan]

Jaun Shepard wrote...

Cloak should have a cool down which does not depend on the time you stay cloaked. Only on weight.
Though this would still mean Hurricane winfiltratrs would be top dogs.

Amusingly enough, this would actually be a slight buff to Hurricane wielding Infiltrators.

[Deerber]

People are seriously strange... Oh well.

I'll only point out one thing.

Cyonan wrote...

Also, if we're being technical it's an objective fact that the Earth has a gravitational field as of me typing this post.

It's not your opinion that there is gravity. It's simply there.

That's your opinion (and a lot of others', miyself included) too. And it is not impossible that it will be proved wrong in a future, be it near or distant. So yeah, nothing is 100% sure in this world, except this very statement.

[LemurFromTheId]

Personally I believe in Intelligent Falling.

[dosomethinguseful]

If the Earth is spinning very rapidly wouldn't we all just fly off into space? Think about it.

[Jaun Shepard]

Inb4 this thread leads to a Matrix flamewar. I still believe that we are primitive Geth in a Quarian simulator but thats just me.

[valium]

Cyonan wrote...

valium wrote...

cloak should only boost damage of sniper rifles

That does absolutely nothing except limit build variety.

it makes the most sense, infiltrators were supposed to be the sniper class, it would indeed limit build variety but it would expand class variety. maybe doing something like this would have made bioware give more thought to more varying infiltrators like the shadow.

[Tokenusername]

valium wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

valium wrote...

cloak should only boost damage of sniper rifles

That does absolutely nothing except limit build variety.

it makes the most sense, infiltrators were supposed to be the sniper class, it would indeed limit build variety but it would expand class variety. maybe doing something like this would have made bioware give more thought to more varying infiltrators like the shadow.

People love to complain about how not being able to being snipers on your Vanguard is going to limit build variety. No one seems to realise that the flexibility of design increases when faced with less variables.

Modifié par Tokenusername, 06 novembre 2013 - 04:24 .