142 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Couple issues here:

1. Romance, if it's going to be included in a story, should have some element of drama in it.

2. Companions, if they're included, should serve a dramatic purpose. If they are all mild-mannered, well-adjusted types then they're bad characters. This doesn't mean that have to be outlandish - look at Persona 4 for a cast of characters who are (mostly) regular teenagers, yet still have very different personalities and problems.

3. In DA II, the default options for a straight, female PC were Anders and Fenris. Awesome if you like the moody, angry, obsessed about specific political/social problems, and psychologically damaged types. Not so awesome if you'd like some variety in your LIs.

[Ianamus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Couple issues here:

1. Romance, if it's going to be included in a story, should have some element of drama in it.

2. Companions, if they're included, should serve a dramatic purpose. If they are all mild-mannered, well-adjusted types then they're bad characters. This doesn't mean that have to be outlandish - look at Persona 4 for a cast of characters who are (mostly) regular teenagers, yet still have very different personalities and problems.

3. In DA II, the default options for a straight, female PC were Anders and Fenris. Awesome if you like the moody, angry, obsessed about specific political/social problems, and psychologically damaged types. Not so awesome if you'd like some variety in your LIs.

It comes down to how the companion deals with their issues and whether or not they allow those issues to impact the romance. 

It would be nice to see a companion who deals with their issues on their own and keeps them out of the relationship for the most part, rather than constantly brooding over them and relying on the PC for support and encouragement.

As for whether that can make a compelling romance- I think it can. What's not really been explored in a Dragon Age game so far is relationship drama that comes from  the PC, as opposed to the LI.  

[Fredward]

Nah, love is dull if there isn't at least a splash of psychosis/avoidant-attachment style present.

[nightscrawl]

Trista Hawke wrote...

And honestly, he never even SAYS he loves you. He shows it - sure. But he's never explicit.

Heh that's actually one of the things I really like about the Fenris romance. I think they did a good job of making them all different, and this is just one example of that.

At any rate, I don't think they design the romances by saying, "OK this one is going to be obsessive, this one sappy, this one reluctant," and so forth. They have a character with a given personality and back story and they decide to make that character a romance option. So, how would this character respond to the romance given their personality and history? And it goes from there.

I'd suggest reading this thread (Bioware responses filtered) for David's response on this issue. Basically: "... it's a rare character in fiction who is both a romance as well as someone you would want to romance in real life and take home to meet the parents. That's why it's fiction."

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Maria Caliban wrote...
1. Romance, if it's going to be included in a story, should have some element of drama in it.

2. Companions, if they're included, should serve a dramatic purpose. If they are all mild-mannered, well-adjusted types then they're bad characters. This doesn't mean that have to be outlandish - look at Persona 4 for a cast of characters who are (mostly) regular teenagers, yet still have very different personalities and problems.

cosigned and well put. I do agree with your 3rd point that if angst isn't your bag then DA2 may have failed to deliver on the male LI front.

[nightscrawl]

Hippiethecat124 wrote...

Maybe the Inquisitor could be the one who needs someone to break through their shell!
Just new dynamics for different people, that's all. =)

While this is interesting, I don't think they can do this without a really advanced personality and follower interaction system. All of the followers have a set personality. Even with the dynamic of the DA2 friendship/rivalry system, it still fell within certain parameters.

On the other hand, other than systems like the DA2 personality system (which we are not getting in DAI), they have no way of knowing the kind of character we are making. As a real person, I can make the determination that Anders and Fenris are damaged just by talking to them. A computer has no such ability unless you assign certain attributes and flags to specific dialog responses, and then have the follower respond accordingly.

Currently, everything we do is reaction: we react to comments the followers make and they in turn react to our responses. There really isn't a system in place for them to help us emotionally. The one exception to this is the post All That Remains comfort scene because the computer is responding to an event that has happened without input from the player.

[The Xand]

I only banged my companions because the option was there.

[riverbanks]

Kaidan's male Shepard romance is a good example of that too. It took forever to get going but, when it did, Kaidan was in a much better place in his life and a much saner state of mind than Shepard, and it was he who helped "fix"/balance Shepard's downward spiral into insanity instead of the other way around. And though they had some drama before, they were pretty drama-free once they started dating, got to the ILYs in their own time, and it didn't make them boring as a couple, so... yeah I guess it can be done.

Actually now that I think of those two, I retract my previous statement of "not interested". A balanced relationship can be done without being boring or lukewarm, it just needs good writing and a charismatic enough LI to keep you interested in the romance.

Modifié par riverbanks, 02 novembre 2013 - 09:05 .

[Ianamus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Id like to see an inversion of the whole "Li is broken, you need to fix them"- I want an LI who is stable and happy and helps to resolve the issues the Inquistor is left with from the stress/burden of running an organisation and the difficult choices they have to make.

So, Liara?

I like this idea.

I was specifically talking about Dragon Age with my comments- Mass Effect's romances are a very different set.

Liara's ME1 romance was a bit too "I've known you for 5 minutes but the fact you came into contact with a prothean relic makes me gush like Old Faithful" for me. I don't know what her Mass Effect 3 romance was like- after completing the game once with Tali's romance I haven't touched it with a barge pole or watched any related videos on principle. 

I did like the scene at the end when she tried to soothe Shepard before the final battle though. If the romance in ME3 was like that then I think I would have enjoyed it. 

Modifié par EJ107, 02 novembre 2013 - 09:15 .

[In Exile]

I thought Alistair and Leliana were pretty stable. And Zevran was a bit closed off emotionally to start, but that's not necessarily abnormal. Morrigan just had nutso beliefs, but she was the opposite of clingy. So I don't think DAI will repeat DA2.

edit:

Maria, 

1. Romance, if it's going to be included in a story, should have some element of drama in it.

Sure, but it could come from moral differences. Or class standing. Or things like your stable, normal and not-clingy LI not being cool with your plan to engage in a heroic sacrifice, or whatever. 

When I think of IRl relationships, the tension I dealt with had less to do with my partners being bonkers and more to do with very different life views, e.g. my views on monogamy vs. my partner's views. 

Modifié par In Exile, 02 novembre 2013 - 10:04 .

[In Exile]

EntropicAngel wrote...
For what it's worth, that DOES happen in DA ][.

Hopefully you told them before going off and having sex, though. And then inviting them to join in.

Sheesh, Isabella. I'm still bitter.

Why assume I'm the non-monogamous one? :P

But seriously, yes, that moment in DA2 was not cool. It's strange, because I think that certainly could have been an interest conflict in that romance vs. Isabella's commitment issues, i.e., that a fundamental part of her sexual identity is just being monogamous, and as much as she loves/wants to be with Hawke I'd just be disastrous for her relationship to shut that part of herself off. 

[riverbanks]

EntropicAngel wrote...
For what it's worth, that DOES happen in DA ][.

Hopefully you told them before going off and having sex, though. And then inviting them to join in.

Sheesh, Isabella. I'm still bitter.

These polyamorous LIs sure know how to stress a player out. I still don't know if I'm more bitter that my romanced Zevran acted like the Warden love-of-his-life didn't exist (I'm ok with an open relationship, but at least acknowledge the Warden exists?), or that my mutually agreed open-romanced Isabela just walked out and didn't even invite Hawke for a threesome. Rude.

[Thomas Andresen]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
1. Romance, if it's going to be included in a story, should have some element of drama in it.

2. Companions, if they're included, should serve a dramatic purpose. If they are all mild-mannered, well-adjusted types then they're bad characters. This doesn't mean that have to be outlandish - look at Persona 4 for a cast of characters who are (mostly) regular teenagers, yet still have very different personalities and problems.

cosigned and well put. I do agree with your 3rd point that if angst isn't your bag then DA2 may have failed to deliver on the male LI front.

Ditto.

Sure, but it could come from moral differences. Or class standing.

That's more than a little complicated by the player character being largely undefined. Though I don't quite recall, I think that's what Gaider said, as well.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

do people just not know that zevran was extraordinarly buggy in da2 and did not say the things he was meant to

sans bugs, if he was romanced in dao the opptunity to sleep with him in da2 would not come up

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 02 novembre 2013 - 11:00 .

[Thomas Andresen]

I doubt many do.

There's also the issue of "garbage in, garbage out." Buggy import system is buggy.

Modifié par Thomas Andresen, 02 novembre 2013 - 11:02 .

[Kalas747]

Yep, Morrigan would have been perfect for you OP. No attachment at all. Easy come, easy go.

[In Exile]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Simply because that's something you've spoken of several times before.

No, you're totally right. I was just poking fun. 

Imagine if Isabella had told you about it beforehand, and you had the chance to approve, disapprove, or be neutral. And if you disapproved she'd either not suggest it or ask you if it was alright (I never tell her not to do it, because she doesn't ask my advice). 

As a general rule, these are the sort of conversations you have to have beforehand. It comes down to respect for the person that you are with (or want to be with). Generally the way it works is that people come up with systems (e.g. yes, but only if we share, or yes but only if we don't talk about it, or no, it won't work out if we want a serious relationship, etc.). 

All I wanted to get across was that people could have a lot of tensio and drama in a relationship without it necessarily being about someone being a bit coo-coo. 

[riverbanks]

Pseudocognition wrote...

do people just not know that zevran was extraordinarly buggy in da2 and did not say the things he was meant to

sans bugs, if he was romanced in dao the opptunity to sleep with him in da2 would not come up

Sigh, I know this. I was being facetious, because it's an amusing scene if you've romanced both characters and they just brush you off like that. 

Modifié par riverbanks, 02 novembre 2013 - 11:48 .

[Lokiwithrope]

Define normal.

[Plaintiff]

Sounds terribly boring.