142 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonKingReborn]

While a normal, healthy relationship would be nice as an option, until I'd played through to the end, it would feel like that LI had a giant 'emotional and tragic plot death' target painted on his or her head.

[Nightdragon8]

In Exile wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Simply because that's something you've spoken of several times before.

No, you're totally right. I was just poking fun. 

Imagine if Isabella had told you about it beforehand, and you had the chance to approve, disapprove, or be neutral. And if you disapproved she'd either not suggest it or ask you if it was alright (I never tell her not to do it, because she doesn't ask my advice). 

As a general rule, these are the sort of conversations you have to have beforehand. It comes down to respect for the person that you are with (or want to be with). Generally the way it works is that people come up with systems (e.g. yes, but only if we share, or yes but only if we don't talk about it, or no, it won't work out if we want a serious relationship, etc.). 

All I wanted to get across was that people could have a lot of tensio and drama in a relationship without it necessarily being about someone being a bit coo-coo. 

Well with Isabella when you ask? tell? i forget how Hawke says it. But she understands and agrees, (tho you will be having sex with her that night, no matter what lol) but the comment Zev makes is probably the most important, I think it was the whole "Taming" her bit. But does speak volumes in how she is devoted to Hawke now only.

Funny enough, I think the game should have been able to end when Isabella asks you to join her on the boat. For my first playthough, Mother dead, sister dead, Merrils clan dead, anders going on and on about the templars, imo should have ended there, he had no real point in staying there. It was pretty clear that things where going to hell in a handbasket. So from my point of view, the game shoudl have been able to end right there.

Really the same for my mage hawke, tho with less death, brother in the templars no real reason to stay there.

with sister in the circle i can see why he would want to stay, to do something in case sister was hurt.

[Spectre slayer]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Couple issues here:

1. Romance, if it's going to be included in a story, should have some element of drama in it.

2. Companions, if they're included, should serve a dramatic purpose. If they are all mild-mannered, well-adjusted types then they're bad characters. This doesn't mean that have to be outlandish - look at Persona 4 for a cast of characters who are (mostly) regular teenagers, yet still have very different personalities and problems.

3. In DA II, the default options for a straight, female PC were Anders and Fenris. Awesome if you like the moody, angry, obsessed about specific political/social problems, and psychologically damaged types. Not so awesome if you'd like some variety in your LIs.

I agree with you for the most part and it seems like relationships will be vastly different then they were previously and as a few people mentioned depending on your choices we might get locked out of some romances or they just might not be interested in you and only like certain type of characters which lines up with what Gaider said earlier in the year and what Jonathan Pery said recently.

www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-16239-Dragon-Age--Inquisition-Interview-----Jonathan-Perry-Talks-Sex--Mounts--Demons-and-Destruction.html

this from Gaider on his tumblr about what you were talking about.

I would, however, resist making the romance elements of our games more prominent without also changing the nature of that content.

Adding an element of failure, for instance, or by having not all characters be available to all player characters (they’re attracted only to certain types, for instance).

Adding different types of romance: tragic romances, romances where your partner cheats on you, romances where the character is already involved in another relationship, characters that don’t know how to relate to someone else on a romantic level or aren’t interested in such.

It needn’t all be unhappy, of course, but were I to cross the threshold of making all followers possible to romance I’d at least want to change the approach into something more plausible. To me, the idea that a player should get their followers and then simply select one or more companions to be their romance, and that romance is their cuddly bunny for the entirety of the game and plays out exactly as they wish, would be the worst of both worlds.

It would be wish fulfillment on a level that reduced the characters into romantic playthings— sex dolls, really. And I have no interest in creating that, even if there are people who think it’d be grand.

He also said there that he doesn't like player sexual relationships and wants fewer relationship that have more depth, which is something I agree with since I really didn't like the player sexual romances in DA2, anyway here's the link.
dgaider.tumblr.com/post/40361886357/on-romances-in-games


Here's some more links about romance.

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2013/08/28/romance-in-dragon-age.aspx

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 03 novembre 2013 - 10:06 .

[maliluka]

what might be "normal" to some, is boring to others as people have a varied difference in opinion on what they would like...

[caradoc2000]

Sky (in Jade Empire) was fairly "normal" LI.

[Mr. Homebody]

Unfortunately romance plots in DA 2 weren't very engaging for me. It's basically auto romance based on "click the heart icon to win". In DA:O we had some dialogue options and I hope that it will return (not like: choose one type of the personality and then automatically click suitable icon for the rest of the game).

I think Isabela is the most interesting LI option in DA 2. At least she is not whiny. I had hard time while romancing Anders. He is so whining and obsessive (I cannot belive that it is the same Anders from DA: Awakening). And in the end if I want to continue the relationship, I have to accept his terrorist aspirations. Not much place for happy ending here.

Fenris is completely unbelievable as potential LI for me. He is whining and obsessive of course. But the main reason is that I can't imagine that human Hawke could live in relationship with some miserable and malnourished skeleton. It is similar with Merrill, who mentally is basically some kind of little girl in dark emo mode. I like these elves as npc characters but can't imagine romancing them.

I can enjoy romance plot even if the potential LI isn't reflect my personal preference. But the relationship must be at least believable for me. In DA 2 it is possible with Isabela, possible but not easy with Anders, very doubtfully with Merrill and completely abstract and unbelieveable with Fenris.

And the ultimate solution for me is : give me some human LI with Varric personality or "Alistair the sequel" and I will be happy. 

[esper]

A normal balanced relantionship requires both stable personality of all involved lives and a somewhat balanced, not too dramatic life.

... As our PC essentially make their living by murdering people and the LI's by the virtue of being companions (in dragon age) does the same, I am not sure how we can get a normal relentionship. The people and lives involved are abnormal.

[franciscoamell]

Now what's fun about that?

[TheKomandorShepard]

esper wrote...

A normal balanced relantionship requires both stable personality of all involved lives and a somewhat balanced, not too dramatic life.

... As our PC essentially make their living by murdering people and the LI's by the virtue of being companions (in dragon age) does the same, I am not sure how we can get a normal relentionship. The people and lives involved are abnormal.

Well Alistair was pertty much stable despite being gray warden shame that females are retarded in this series and i doubt after seeing 3 females in party in third game that will be in case we will have retarded elf , seeker with anger issues and without any positive emotions about mage i have mixed impressions but devs said that she have some of kind anger issues as well .

[esper]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

esper wrote...

A normal balanced relantionship requires both stable personality of all involved lives and a somewhat balanced, not too dramatic life.

... As our PC essentially make their living by murdering people and the LI's by the virtue of being companions (in dragon age) does the same, I am not sure how we can get a normal relentionship. The people and lives involved are abnormal.

Well Alistair was pertty much stable despite being gray warden shame that females are retarded in this series and i doubt after seeing 3 females in party in third game that will be in case we will have retarded elf , seeker with anger issues and without any positive emotions about mage i have mixed impressions but devs said that she have some of kind anger issues as well .

Stable, yes, normal no. He was pretty much a prince charming stereo type fleshed out to be actually interesting. That is not how relantionship in general works, mostly because relantionship in general don't end up wiht one partner deciding wherever it is a good idea to pressure their partner into a role they don't want or not (let him rule or not). And then there is the whole pressuring him into having sex wiht a person he don't want to contra having to watch your lover matyr himself for you.

It was absolutely an abnormal relantionship.And not good balanced either, due to Alistair being a bit too submissive to the PC due to his personality.

All the bioware's romances have their problem which adds plenty of drama, which is what should be expected fromt the situations they find themself in. I am expecting they will find new drama's for Da:I. The only think I hope they don't do is the bi-super sex manic with commitment issues. They have had one of either gender, so I hope we don't see that one again.

[TheKomandorShepard]

esper wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

esper wrote...

A normal balanced relantionship requires both stable personality of all involved lives and a somewhat balanced, not too dramatic life.

... As our PC essentially make their living by murdering people and the LI's by the virtue of being companions (in dragon age) does the same, I am not sure how we can get a normal relentionship. The people and lives involved are abnormal.

Well Alistair was pertty much stable despite being gray warden shame that females are retarded in this series and i doubt after seeing 3 females in party in third game that will be in case we will have retarded elf , seeker with anger issues and without any positive emotions about mage i have mixed impressions but devs said that she have some of kind anger issues as well .

Stable, yes, normal no. He was pretty much a prince charming stereo type fleshed out to be actually interesting. That is not how relantionship in general works, mostly because relantionship in general don't end up wiht one partner deciding wherever it is a good idea to pressure their partner into a role they don't want or not (let him rule or not). And then there is the whole pressuring him into having sex wiht a person he don't want to contra having to watch your lover matyr himself for you.

It was absolutely an abnormal relantionship.And not good balanced either, due to Alistair being a bit too submissive to the PC due to his personality.

All the bioware's romances have their problem which adds plenty of drama, which is what should be expected fromt the situations they find themself in. I am expecting they will find new drama's for Da:I. The only think I hope they don't do is the bi-super sex manic with commitment issues. They have had one of either gender, so I hope we don't see that one again.

For me that was pretty normal outside king and ritual part when other li were lunatics or were lacking empathy he wasn't , well some peoples are submissive and it isn't anomaly in relationship at least not that your li enjoys hunting on peoples and tell you how they love kill peoples.To be honest i don't want drama it is so often used that i automaticly say "ooo companion i wonder how tragic past he have and what kind of psychotic issues they have *yawns*:mellow:"  sure if you want to have drama take li with tragic past and unusual personality like morrigan but i would like finally one person with normal problems like talks about future , views or personal problems with debts or with family not li cuting peoples into pieces in the barn.
 

[esper]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

esper wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

esper wrote...

A normal balanced relantionship requires both stable personality of all involved lives and a somewhat balanced, not too dramatic life.

... As our PC essentially make their living by murdering people and the LI's by the virtue of being companions (in dragon age) does the same, I am not sure how we can get a normal relentionship. The people and lives involved are abnormal.

Well Alistair was pertty much stable despite being gray warden shame that females are retarded in this series and i doubt after seeing 3 females in party in third game that will be in case we will have retarded elf , seeker with anger issues and without any positive emotions about mage i have mixed impressions but devs said that she have some of kind anger issues as well .

Stable, yes, normal no. He was pretty much a prince charming stereo type fleshed out to be actually interesting. That is not how relantionship in general works, mostly because relantionship in general don't end up wiht one partner deciding wherever it is a good idea to pressure their partner into a role they don't want or not (let him rule or not). And then there is the whole pressuring him into having sex wiht a person he don't want to contra having to watch your lover matyr himself for you.

It was absolutely an abnormal relantionship.And not good balanced either, due to Alistair being a bit too submissive to the PC due to his personality.

All the bioware's romances have their problem which adds plenty of drama, which is what should be expected fromt the situations they find themself in. I am expecting they will find new drama's for Da:I. The only think I hope they don't do is the bi-super sex manic with commitment issues. They have had one of either gender, so I hope we don't see that one again.

For me that was pretty normal outside king and ritual part when other li were lunatics or were lacking empathy he wasn't , well some peoples are submissive and it isn't anomaly in relationship at least not that your li enjoys hunting on peoples and tell you how they love kill peoples.To be honest i don't want drama it is so often used that i automaticly say "ooo companion i wonder how tragic past he have and what kind of psychotic issues they have *yawns*:mellow:"  sure if you want to have drama take li with tragic past and unusual personality like morrigan but i would like finally one person with normal problems like talks about future , views or personal problems with debts or with family not li cuting peoples into pieces in the barn.
 

Yeah... There is still plenty of drame in Alistair. Espically if you go the King route and is not a Cousland, but the whole dark ritual/sacrifice thing is also drama. And while some people are submissive, yes. Alistair was submissive in everything, sure he can grow a back bone, but the game mechanic for doing so is so... game mechnanicy that it is hard to take serious. Not that I have a problem with submissive personalities, but we are talking strictly about ordinarity and drama right now. Not wherever it is a good story or not. I did say he was prince chamring flesh out to be interesting.

I assume that the hunting people/hurting people is a dig at Zevran, but in that case I say it is a question of knowing what you get. You choose to sleep with an assassin, you kinda is going to get that and the drama in Zevran's Li' path is from his commitment/don't regonize love issues and not the I am an assassin issues.

Keep in mind I have never said that drama equal tragic past (Which Alistair had too, btw). And all the Li's in these cuts people to pieces. To be a protagonist and/or a companion, basically means you are a mass-killer by trade. It doesn't matter if you can justify it or not. None of them seems to lose much sleep over it.

[TheKomandorShepard]

esper wrote...

Yeah... There is still plenty of drame in Alistair. Espically if you go the King route and is not a Cousland, but the whole dark ritual/sacrifice thing is also drama. And while some people are submissive, yes. Alistair was submissive in everything, sure he can grow a back bone, but the game mechanic for doing so is so... game mechnanicy that it is hard to take serious. Not that I have a problem with submissive personalities, but we are talking strictly about ordinarity and drama right now. Not wherever it is a good story or not. I did say he was prince chamring flesh out to be interesting.

I assume that the hunting people/hurting people is a dig at Zevran, but in that case I say it is a question of knowing what you get. You choose to sleep with an assassin, you kinda is going to get that and the drama in Zevran's Li' path is from his commitment/don't regonize love issues and not the I am an assassin issues.

Keep in mind I have never said that drama equal tragic past (Which Alistair had too, btw). And all the Li's in these cuts people to pieces. To be a protagonist and/or a companion, basically means you are a mass-killer by trade. It doesn't matter if you can justify it or not. None of them seems to lose much sleep over it.

Well that was more arrow in leliana but well it can be said as well about zevran sure we know what we geting with zevran but leliana at first until much later don't have such problems because i have morrigan which is psycho bi*** and nice girl and i would think i will get more "normal" romance and when she was't such a psycho bi** like morrigan she had her moments as well.To be honest i liked jaheira romance when it had some crappy moments with slaver conversations with her were cool not about her being psycho but about future , current problems and feelings and i liked quests with harpers.  

To be honest being protagonist in most games is about killing however depending how do you play you don't have like or even be indifferent it and it may be simply self-defense.And going back to jaheira she ask us about destroyed city and how we feel about it we can be indifferent , enjoy it or feel bad about it and she is glad if you take third option showing that you are human inside.   

[Zyree]

Though I'm not sure if I would partake in it, there are two relationships I would be interested in seeing.

1) A relationship where the companion looks after the player character just as much as the player character looks after them. I always find it weird when some of the relationships are shown to be one sided, because that is not my experience with relationships. I understand that this has to do with game mechanics though, so I'm not hopeful, but I sometimes wish for more scenes where the companion asks how you are doing, or if you need help with anything, or stuff like that.

2) I would be interested in seeing a situation where a companion pursues you in a non-creepy way. If you didn't romance Anders, he came off as super creepy and obsessive and it freaked me out a little. Mind, if you did romance him, I found this to be severely less so. I think I like Zevran's flirting in DA:O much more in the way it was written but maybe I am thinking of something a little more... sweet? I dunno, Zevran was my favorite DA:O romance so I didn't experience the non-romance dialogue very often.

[Hippiethecat124]

Zevran's dialogue in a friendship playthrough was still very sweet (to me), and I very much enjoyed that. I even played it once that because my Warden was in a royal family, that it would dishonor their memory if she were with an elf, and so the dialogue about the plucky sidekick dying so the hero can live.... Oh my lord, the feels....

But that was all headcanon. If we got a romance with that sort of situation, I would be a happy girl.

[zMataxa]

For me, that's what RL romance is there for.
Fantasy romance allows for other possibilities.

Modifié par zMataxa, 03 novembre 2013 - 11:12 .

[Boiny Bunny]

With respect to the actual storytelling and dialogue, it's difficult to create the illusion of a 'normal' relationship in these types of games, because they usually involve the world ending and all of your characters being under extreme duress trying to prevent it (DA2 is sort of an exception to that particular style of plot).

In ME1 for example, I never felt that any of the 3 romances involved any element of 'love'. They were more like some semblance of an emotional connection formed in trying times, followed by a 'we're-probably-all-going-to-die-in-a-few-hours-so-lets-have-sex' scene.

I thought DA:O's romances were handled more maturely with respect to the writing, though could be ruined by meta-gaming (giving the companion a ton of gifts at once thus accelerating the romance through most of it's entirety in one camp visit).

[Senya]

Personally, I liked the Anora romance best in Dragon Age: Origins.

[ShadowLordXII]

Normal Relationship? But there's nothing wrong with the characters...

Origins:
Alistair- Royal Bastard with Abandonment/Parental/Identity Issues+PTSD from Ostagar
Leliana- Former Bard with Identity/Guilt/Betrayal Issues+Strong Religious Fervor
Zevran- Free-loving Assassin with Attachment/Loyalty Issues+Can possibly betray you
Morrigan- Seemingly heartless Witch with Trust/Emotional/Cultural Issues+Using the warden for her own ambition for power

DAII:
Fenris- Tevinter Fugitive with Memory/Anger/Identity Issues+Seeks revenge against his former master
Merrill- Exiled Dalish Blood Mage with Worldly/Guilt/Naivety Issues+Too stubborn to give up on a lost cause
Isabela- Rivaini Pirate with Trust/Loyalty/Honesty Issues+a very loose skirt
Anders- Mage Abomination+Warden Deserter with Anger/Identity/Moral Issues+Too stupid to see why blowing up a church will only make the mage-templar situation worst

Actually...it would be refreshing to have a normal party member without huge issues. Then again, the normal characters are usually regarded as bland and forgettable (Jacob).

[In Exile]

Boiny Bunny wrote...
In ME1 for example, I never felt that any of the 3 romances involved any element of 'love'. They were more like some semblance of an emotional connection formed in trying times, followed by a 'we're-probably-all-going-to-die-in-a-few-hours-so-lets-have-sex' scene. 

I thought DA:O's romances were handled more maturely with respect to the writing, though could be ruined by meta-gaming (giving the companion a ton of gifts at once thus accelerating the romance through most of it's entirety in one camp visit).

How is that not a normal relationship? To me, the idea that relationships have to involve love is weird. Sometimes, the fact that you're (i) really attracted to someone and (ii) you really hit it off personality wise is all that you really need. 

[Xilizhra]

Blackrising wrote...

I thought Alistair's romance was pretty balanced. He was a nice and sweet guy who had no severe issues. The only hickup in his romance was his bloodline and birthright. Other than that, it's a pretty straightforward 'I like you, I love you, let's get it on, let's be together forever' thing.

Leliana was 'normal' (*coughboringcough*) as well, if you ignore the 'I want to keep your eyelashes in a jaaaaar' comment.

The problem in DA2 was that the male LIs both represented extremes and were both pretty damaged. If you like healthy relationships, DA2 definitely wasn't for you.

Aw, I thought the eyelashes comment was cute.

Anyway, Merrill would seem to be up your alley, if she wasn't a woman.

How is that not a normal relationship? To me, the idea that relationships have to involve love is weird. Sometimes, the fact that you're (i) really attracted to someone and (ii) you really hit it off personality wise is all that you really need. 

Love's important, but it grows in the ME1 ones as time goes on.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 05 novembre 2013 - 01:24 .

[PMC65]

almostinsane99 wrote...

Personally, I liked the Anora romance best in Dragon Age: Origins.

That was my favorite romance in the Dragon Age Series to date as well ... Male Warden and Queen Anora.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Trista Hawke wrote...

I think having this would allow players who are interested in giving their character a relationship but they seek something - heh - low maintenance. Or in other words... a "normal" relationship. 

/signed

I know at least one dev has said that normal is boring, but I have faith that Bioware writers are good enough to make normal interesting. Normal doesn't mean nothing happens, or that there's never any conflict or heartache.

There's probably less glowing, blood magic and being heirs to the throne though.